Sports & Recreation

Weight Loss and Muscle Mass

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  • Dec 16th, 2004 2:44 pm
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Deal Expert
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Aug 9, 2004
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dont forget, a large part of what determines where your fat comes off of, and how much is......sadly, genetics.
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Nov 26, 2003
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southwestern ontario
Wow, how do you guys find time to eat so many meals? I was (well still sort of am) one of those people who worked all day then came home and binged on whatever. I forced myself to start having breakfast (usually a meal replacement or protein drink) and a reasonably healthy lunch and supper. With that and gyming I've managed to drop 30 lbs though I still want to drop another 10-15. It's really slowed down though lately.. :\.
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Aug 8, 2001
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toronto
Congrats on your success. Looks like your are doing a lot of good things. I would suggest reducing the protien shakes and increase fruits, veggies, legumes and water intake. Just a few notes you should be aware of:

1) never use a weight scale or measuring tape as a measure of success unless it is used in conjunction with body composition (% body fat). When you don't notice changes on the scale or tape, your body will continue to change. Remember muscle weighs more than fat.

2) you want to train your body to utilize fat as a primary fuel source as long as possible before switching over to carohydrates. To do this, you must do cardo in 70-85% of your max heart rate (140-165 bps) for at least 20 mins, not including warm-up and cool-down. Slow and steady will not do the job. Cardo should be hard enough that you should just be barely able talk. Note- everyone target heart rate is slightly different and it will change, so try to keep track of it.

3) The most important part- the goal here is to get healthier and to live an active lifestyle. Losing the weight and inches are a biproduct of improved health. Remember, this is a lifestyle change. Make sure you are enjoying what you are doing. I would set more performance based goal, like reducing your 1 mile time, or train towards climbing the CN Tower etc. These goals are a lot more rewarding.

Again, congrats on you success and here's to a lifetime of good health :)
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May 17, 2004
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Markham
Bing wrote: 2) you want to train your body to utilize fat as a primary fuel source as long as possible before switching over to carohydrates. To do this, you must do cardo in 70-85% of your max heart rate (140-165 bps) for at least 20 mins, not including warm-up and cool-down. Slow and steady will not do the job. Cardo should be hard enough that you should just be barely able talk. Note- everyone target heart rate is slightly different and it will change, so try to keep track of it.
That's actually not possible. Glucose, or some form of it, is your body's primary fuel source. When you're out of glucose/glycogen, your body converts protein or fat into glucose to use.
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bdckr wrote:That's actually not possible. Glucose, or some form of it, is your body's primary fuel source. When you're out of glucose/glycogen, your body converts protein or fat into glucose to use.
You are correct in one aspect, I shoud of emphasized during aerobic exercise.

There are different energy systems that your body uses dependig on the demands you place on it. Each energy system requires a different energy source (i.e. creatine phosphate, stored glycogen or fat) and each has a different response time. In short bouts of exercise like lifting weights or running up the stairs yes you will use the quickest source of energy (CP and glycogen), but for aerobic exercise you want to train you body to utilize fat effiecently. You get 24X the amout of energy from 1 g or fat than 1g of glucose, but the key is to stay aerobic. The combustion of fats require more time, so as soon as you pass your anaerobic threshold (i.e. point where you can't talk), the demands on your body is so high you'll require a faster energy source, i.e. glycogen. The idea is to train that anaerobic threshhold as high as possible so you stay aerobic as long as possible before going anaerobic, therefore utilizing fat stores.
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May 17, 2004
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Markham
Bing wrote:You are correct in one aspect, I shoud of emphasized during aerobic exercise.

There are different energy systems that your body uses dependig on the demands you place on it. Each energy system requires a different energy source (i.e. creatine phosphate, stored glycogen or fat) and each has a different response time. In short bouts of exercise like lifting weights or running up the stairs yes you will use the quickest source of energy (CP and glycogen), but for aerobic exercise you want to train you body to utilize fat effiecently. You get 24X the amout of energy from 1 g or fat than 1g of glucose, but the key is to stay aerobic. The combustion of fats require more time, so as soon as you pass your anaerobic threshold (i.e. point where you can't talk), the demands on your body is so high you'll require a faster energy source, i.e. glycogen. The idea is to train that anaerobic threshhold as high as possible so you stay aerobic as long as possible before going anaerobic, therefore utilizing fat stores.
I'll address your other points later, but I'm sure I'm not the only here who would like to know how 9 kcal (or food cal) in 1 g of fat is 24X as much as 4 kcal in 1 g of glucose. Enquiring minds want to know.
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On the molecular level, the measure of energy is ATP (Adenosine TriPhosphate). Every energy source (fats, carbs etc) is borken down into ATPs. Anaerobic metabolism (buring immediate CP then gylcogen) will produce as few as 2-30 ATPs, compared to aerobic metablism (burning of fats with the presences of oxygen) can produce as much as 100 ATPs.

A calerie is used to measure the amount of energy required to increase the temperature of 1 L of water 1 degrees celcius. It is a crude way to measure how your body metabolizes and utilizes fuel.

All this information is basic exercise physiology principle readily available in university text books and scientific journal, or google. Just be weary of getting info from fitness magazines, they are pretty good at filtering info so you hear what you want to hear. Remember their business is to make money.
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May 17, 2004
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Markham
bdckr wrote:That's actually not possible. Glucose, or some form of it, is your body's primary fuel source. When you're out of glucose/glycogen, your body converts protein or fat into glucose to use.
My bad, I shouldn't have said that your body will convert "protein or fat into glucose." It should be only "protein."
Bing wrote:...
2) you want to train your body to utilize fat as a primary fuel source as long as possible before switching over to carohydrates. To do this, you must do cardo in 70-85% of your max heart rate (140-165 bps) for at least 20 mins, not including warm-up and cool-down. Slow and steady will not do the job. Cardo should be hard enough that you should just be barely able talk. Note- everyone target heart rate is slightly different and it will change, so try to keep track of it....
The problem with this is that you can't "train your body to utilize fat as a primary fuel source...before switching over to carbohydrates."

Your body prefers carbohydrates. Your brain requires carbohydrates. Brain cells will die without a source of glucose.

Carbohydrates have an inhibitory effect on the use of triglycerides as fuel, so your body uses carbohydrates preferentially until carbohydrate stores are low.

That means when you have lots of carbohydrates, your body uses very little fat for energy. When your carbohydrates are low, your body uses fat.

There's no "training" your body to function differently. Use of triglycerides(TG)/fats will increase when carbohydrates are low. Period.
Bing wrote:There are different energy systems that your body uses dependig on the demands you place on it. Each energy system requires a different energy source (i.e. creatine phosphate, stored glycogen or fat) and each has a different response time. In short bouts of exercise like lifting weights or running up the stairs yes you will use the quickest source of energy (CP and glycogen), but for aerobic exercise you want to train you body to utilize fat effiecently. You get 24X the amout of energy from 1 g or fat than 1g of glucose, but the key is to stay aerobic. The combustion of fats require more time, so as soon as you pass your anaerobic threshold (i.e. point where you can't talk), the demands on your body is so high you'll require a faster energy source, i.e. glycogen. The idea is to train that anaerobic threshhold as high as possible so you stay aerobic as long as possible before going anaerobic, therefore utilizing fat stores
Not exactly accurate.

The anaerobic pathways are the phosphagen energy system and the glycogen-lactic acid system. Agreed.

The “point where you can’t talk
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Dec 8, 2003
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Hey,
Firstly, good for you on getting on track...What I'm about to describe is what I did to lose a significant amount of weight...I'm not saying it was right, but it worked for me, and the reason I am posting this is because my starting specs were about the same as yours. I am 5'8, weighed about 230 before, now I am at 180. My routine was simple. Cardio, cardio, and more cardio.

I worked out 5-6 days a week, consisting of 1 hour/day. 30 mins of that was the rowing machine (at full resistance) and 30 minutes on the eliptical. In terms of diet, I'm really not sure if eating 6 small meals a day is ideal for you at this point. 4 may be a lot more manageable. In either case, the key for me was, get dinner in by 6pm, and eat NOTHING after that hour. It's tough at first, but you get used to it. It took about 6 months to drop the weight, and since then I've been working with a fine balance of cardio/weights (It's been about 3 years, and still not gained it back).

The other thing you didn't mention in your post (at least I don't think you did, but I didn't read it that carefully) was what you are drinking other then water (if anything)...this is important b/c you can cut a lot of sugars out by getting off of pop, juice, and even in coffee.

Also, are you taking a multi-vitamin? This may be useful. I personally use the "MegaMen" from GNC and find it to be a pretty good product.

Hope that helps a bit.
[OP]
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Feb 12, 2002
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Toronto
bdckr and Bing...you guys lost me...but feel free to continue on ;)

ptxpress, thanks...I'm pretty much drinking water exclusively, but I will mix skim milk with my whey powder occasionally. Also, I'm not taking a multi-vitamin, thanks for the suggestion :)
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Aug 10, 2004
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dude, i have like no fat. I'm 6-2'' and i weigh like 142 Ibs, even though i eat like a horse (can u say 5 drumsticks + 1 pound of rice for dinner), but I don't gain anything no matter what.. i started working out somewhat, and the most i've got to was like 145 (which is prob. all the water and stuff in my body at the time). guess I'm just one of those lucky skinny fellows, lol
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Aug 8, 2001
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toronto
I didn't think my reply would become a heated phyiological debate. I appologise to Fightguard for what has happened to his good news thread.

Yes, I do now realize my 24x note was missleading, but I was going off the top of my head when I replied initially. Now, I never said that the aerobic system solely uses fat stores as fuel source, of couse glucose, fatty acids and amino acids are also consumed.

Yes you can train your anaerobic threashold. Endurence athletes do it all the time. You can accurately determine yours with a VO2max test and use those results to establish your training program.

The “point where you can’t talk
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May 17, 2004
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Markham
Bing wrote:I didn't think my reply would become a heated phyiological debate.
You should never be surprised when people want to correct misinformation.
Bing wrote: I appologise to Fightguard for what has happened to his good news thread.
Agreed. Abject apologies to Fightguard and props for the good work you’ve done so far.
Bing wrote:Yes, I do now realize my 24x note was missleading, but I was going off the top of my head when I replied initially. Now, I never said that the aerobic system solely uses fat stores as fuel source, of couse glucose, fatty acids and amino acids are also consumed.
Bing, earlier wrote:Each energy system requires a different energy source (i.e. creatine phosphate, stored glycogen or fat)...
Language lesson: i.e. = id est = “that is
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I never thought it would get heated or at least thats how I interpreted you tone.
bdckr wrote: Language lesson: i.e. = id est = “that is

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