Personal Finance

What is an appropriate level of taxation?

  • Last Updated:
  • Mar 9th, 2018 12:51 pm
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Poll: What is maximum level of taxes you are willing to pay?

  • Total votes: 112. You have voted on this poll.
20%
 
49
44%
30%
 
23
21%
40%
 
16
14%
50%
 
11
10%
60%
 
1
1%
70%
 
2
2%
80%
 
10
9%
[OP]
Banned
Aug 22, 2017
248 posts
65 upvotes

What is an appropriate level of taxation?

What is the maximum level of taxation that you deem acceptable?

If we looked at total taxation
including income tax + property tax + GST

Why do I ask?

It seems that many people want
  • free education
  • free healthcare
  • free medicine
  • free sports and recreation
  • guaranteed minimum income
  • free this and that
  • strong military
  • lots of infrastructure

People seem to forget that money is not "mined" or grow on trees.
Everything that is free must be paid for by someone.
Money is taken by force by government to pay the bills
It is in fact a form of extortion.

So, what is the maximum you are willing to pay?

This leads into what should be the role of government.
74 replies
Deal Addict
Jan 14, 2009
1537 posts
574 upvotes
Vancouver, BC
Hard to say. It depends on personal preferences. I like consumption so I enjoyed the US quite a bit when I was there. Governments are inefficient so less is better.

Image
Sr. Member
User avatar
Oct 19, 2016
573 posts
173 upvotes
Toronto
I want to know why some people voted for 80% taxation. Surely it has to be a joke ?
Member
Oct 23, 2017
360 posts
157 upvotes
GTA West
When I was working and my marginal tax rate exceeded 40%, I always thought it was too high. Now that we are retired on a lower income and can take advantage of income splitting, our taxes seem quite low, with an average rate of 13%. For that we get a lot of value, considering our increasing use of the medical system. And of course, health care devours so many of these tax dollars.

We have a lot of relatives earning the minimum wage or not much more, and they hardly pay any taxes at all, at that income level. But they still get full access to the medical system paid for by taxes. That benefits me as a taxpayer, since the illness of a close relative does not become our burden. In contrast, my wife has close family ties in a country with little public healthcare, and we are constantly chipping in towards operations and drugs as her family ages. Every illness there becomes a family crisis.

When I was in Florida a couple of years ago I traded experiences with a farmer from Wisconsin. The health insurance premium he pays for himself and his wife, plus the out of pocket costs he incurs with a $5k deductible, are more than our total income taxes. But he gave me a long discourse about problems with the Canadian system, his philosophical objection to paying for someone else's healthcare, and wouldn't have it any other way!

As far as healthcare goes, I definitely want the government to fund it from taxes!
Deal Addict
Nov 24, 2013
4856 posts
1493 upvotes
Kingston, ON
My average income tax rate is <25%, as is my wife's. If we spent all of our after-tax dollars on HST-taxable items (we don't... most goes to the mortgage, groceries are exempt, etc.) then worst case we'd pay 10% of gross in HST. Realistically we're probably 5% or under. Property tax is about 3% of our combined gross income.

So what we're paying now is probably around 30-33%. For that we get everything Canada has to offer its residents. That actually seems like a good deal. If I were "willing" to go up to 40%, that kind of tax increase en masse would create a surplus situation for the federal and provincial governments, where right now revenue and spending are fairly closely matched. I'd only be willing to increase it if there was some significant benefit in terms of government services like universal pharmacare, universal daycare, 'free' tuition, mincome, etc.. Tax doesn't occur in a vacuum, it's a means to pay for the services government provides everyone.
Sr. Member
User avatar
Oct 19, 2016
573 posts
173 upvotes
Toronto
USA healthcare, it is far superior. I went to a Walk in clinic and saw a doctor within 5 mins of arrival. The other hospitals I have visited, I could see doctors within 10 mins of arrival... And they are professional and explain things properly to you.

Here in Toronto, Im lucky if the doctor see's me in 1 hour after arrival. The one doctor I went to seemed rushed, the other doctor seemed disorganized... lost my lab paperwork, never called me for the results.

Cost wise was very similar, I was paying $80 monthly (employer subsidized health insurance). My only other costs were $20 copay per doctor visit. The quality of care I received was far superior and the doctors actually take time and explain things to you.

OHIP costs around $900annual ($75 monthly) for me... So I pay similar costs for healthcare and receive an inferior product.
Dealmaker1945 wrote:
Mar 5th, 2018 10:32 am
When I was working and my marginal tax rate exceeded 40%, I always thought it was too high. Now that we are retired on a lower income and can take advantage of income splitting, our taxes seem quite low, with an average rate of 13%. For that we get a lot of value, considering our increasing use of the medical system. And of course, health care devours so many of these tax dollars.

We have a lot of relatives earning the minimum wage or not much more, and they hardly pay any taxes at all, at that income level. But they still get full access to the medical system paid for by taxes. That benefits me as a taxpayer, since the illness of a close relative does not become our burden. In contrast, my wife has close family ties in a country with little public healthcare, and we are constantly chipping in towards operations and drugs as her family ages. Every illness there becomes a family crisis.

When I was in Florida a couple of years ago I traded experiences with a farmer from Wisconsin. The health insurance premium he pays for himself and his wife, plus the out of pocket costs he incurs with a $5k deductible, are more than our total income taxes. But he gave me a long discourse about problems with the Canadian system, his philosophical objection to paying for someone else's healthcare, and wouldn't have it any other way!

As far as healthcare goes, I definitely want the government to fund it from taxes!
Newbie
Mar 16, 2014
63 posts
20 upvotes
Toronto
Beyond 50% total and I'll be looking to leave.

I feel there is a complacency culture in Canada that is emerging with middle class entitlement. There are many who do not strive for excellence and they are rewarded with the structure of the current highly progressive taxation system. Those who succeed are paying the way for those who don't. 20% taxes are simply not nearly high enough for middle income earners for a socialist state.

From an insiders perspective I would described healthcare here as above average for developed counties. There are some major cracks in primary care in urban centers, and wait times are too high, as well as MAJOR failing in IT background infrastructure, but the care one receives from Canadian specialists when truly in need is world class imho. Many of the training requirements for Cdn specialists are more stringent than their US counterparts
Sr. Member
Feb 21, 2010
578 posts
112 upvotes
Scarborough
apart from $900 OHIP premiums, about 30% of our direct taxes (Fed and State) goes to state healthcare expenses.

mrtrump wrote:
Mar 5th, 2018 12:32 pm
USA healthcare, it is far superior. I went to a Walk in clinic and saw a doctor within 5 mins of arrival. The other hospitals I have visited, I could see doctors within 10 mins of arrival... And they are professional and explain things properly to you.

Here in Toronto, Im lucky if the doctor see's me in 1 hour after arrival. The one doctor I went to seemed rushed, the other doctor seemed disorganized... lost my lab paperwork, never called me for the results.

Cost wise was very similar, I was paying $80 monthly (employer subsidized health insurance). My only other costs were $20 copay per doctor visit. The quality of care I received was far superior and the doctors actually take time and explain things to you.

OHIP costs around $900annual ($75 monthly) for me... So I pay similar costs for healthcare and receive an inferior product.
Deal Addict
User avatar
Mar 23, 2011
1287 posts
293 upvotes
I picked 30% but 35 was the number I would have chosen.
Alex
Deal Addict
User avatar
Sep 19, 2013
1467 posts
389 upvotes
Winnipeg
My avg and sort of sustainable now, tax rate is about 17-18%. MTR I would be ok till 35-40%, beyond that the willingness to earn dies down. If its easy money, sure. But I wouldnt put shifts or overtime.
In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. -- Douglas Adams
Newbie
Jul 20, 2017
19 posts
14 upvotes
It may seem that way until you actually have a serious medical illness, or if you become unemployed and lose your employer health insurance.
You are limited to which hospitals and specialist you can see, and those co-pays can add up if you make a lot of visits. Then once you get defined with a pre-existing condition, you may find your insurance premiums exorbitantly high at that point.
A hospitalization, even with insurance, can still cost you thousands.

There is a reason all other developed countries have universal health care.

Our system is not perfect, but for the most part, those that really NEED the help will get it. They just need to be patient(s).

mrtrump wrote:
Mar 5th, 2018 12:32 pm
USA healthcare, it is far superior. I went to a Walk in clinic and saw a doctor within 5 mins of arrival. The other hospitals I have visited, I could see doctors within 10 mins of arrival... And they are professional and explain things properly to you.

Here in Toronto, Im lucky if the doctor see's me in 1 hour after arrival. The one doctor I went to seemed rushed, the other doctor seemed disorganized... lost my lab paperwork, never called me for the results.

Cost wise was very similar, I was paying $80 monthly (employer subsidized health insurance). My only other costs were $20 copay per doctor visit. The quality of care I received was far superior and the doctors actually take time and explain things to you.

OHIP costs around $900annual ($75 monthly) for me... So I pay similar costs for healthcare and receive an inferior product.
Newbie
Jul 20, 2017
19 posts
14 upvotes
I think progressive taxation beyond 40% is too much and diminishes people's drive to earn more income... and that a lower tax rate may bring in more revenue for the government, as people will earn more money, and therefore more money can be taxed.
It is also good for the economy as people will spend more, that's why taxes tend to get cut during recessions.

The highest tax bracket in Alberta in 2015 was 40.25%
In 2016 this was 47% for income > $200,000, 48% for income > $300,000

I am sure those in those brackets were far less inclined to earn as much as they did in the past given how much more was being taken out of their pockets.
Sr. Member
User avatar
Dec 14, 2008
587 posts
144 upvotes
Toronto
mrtrump wrote:
Mar 5th, 2018 12:32 pm
Cost wise was very similar, I was paying $80 monthly (employer subsidized health insurance). My only other costs were $20 copay per doctor visit. The quality of care I received was far superior and the doctors actually take time and explain things to you.

OHIP costs around $900annual ($75 monthly) for me... So I pay similar costs for healthcare and receive an inferior product.
That's false equivalence. The second you run into a complication and require serious medical attention, you'd be crying foul at the American system. Meanwhile, you're fully covered here in Canada. Have you not seen those reddit threads where people post $50k-$100k bills just to have a baby? That's freaking nuts. Total cost here: $0.

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