Investing

What did you buy? What might you buy??

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  • Dec 15th, 2018 10:14 am
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Sr. Member
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Jan 28, 2007
526 posts
295 upvotes
Earth for now
ottofly wrote:
Oct 10th, 2018 3:52 pm
Do you both have any idea what you just bought (if you did), why they're getting hammered, and how these structered products work??
Yes, have rode this horse before and made lots of money each time ... not sure about the sell-off, maybe MFC pending court case decision although MFC is a small portion of the fund and somewhat old news ... I'm more inclined to believe its oversold now on jittery investors and stop-losses are being triggered and driving it lower ... it appears a number of similar structured products are also down ... only in for a small position IMO and will see where it goes from here, and may add more
Deal Addict
Oct 22, 2014
2818 posts
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Toronto
Jojo_Madman wrote:
Oct 10th, 2018 4:23 pm
Yes, have rode this horse before and made lots of money each time ... not sure about the sell-off, maybe MFC pending court case decision although MFC is a small portion of the fund and somewhat old news ... I'm more inclined to believe its oversold now on jittery investors and stop-losses are being triggered and driving it lower ... it appears a number of similar structured products are also down ... only in for a small position IMO and will see where it goes from here, and may add more
Weird, according to this

https://www.quadravest.com/ftn-fund-features

Holdings Sorted by weight as at September 28, 2018:

JPMorgan Chase & Co
Bank of America Corp
Citigroup Inc
Canadian Imperial Bank of Commerce
Toronto-Dominion Bank
Royal Bank of Canada
Sun Life Financial Inc
Goldman Sachs Group Inc
Manulife Financial Corp
Wells Fargo & Co
Bank of Nova Scotia
Bank of Montreal
National Bank of Canada
Great-West Lifeco Inc
Fifth Third Bancorp

MFC is in the middle of the pack sorted by weight. But still it does not explain why on a day when S&P 500 Financials drops around 3%, TSE financials drop less than 2%,

FTN dropped 17.7%

This fund is weird.

Maybe confidence in the fund management is deteriorating and causing its drop, more rapidly than the fund holdings.
Last edited by Elfwood on Oct 10th, 2018 4:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Sr. Member
User avatar
Jan 28, 2007
526 posts
295 upvotes
Earth for now
Elfwood wrote:
Oct 10th, 2018 4:36 pm
Weird, according to this

https://www.quadravest.com/ftn-fund-features

Holdings Sorted by weight as at September 28, 2018:

JPMorgan Chase & Co
Bank of America Corp
Citigroup Inc
Canadian Imperial Bank of Commerce
Toronto-Dominion Bank
Royal Bank of Canada
Sun Life Financial Inc
Goldman Sachs Group Inc
Manulife Financial Corp
Wells Fargo & Co
Bank of Nova Scotia
Bank of Montreal
National Bank of Canada
Great-West Lifeco Inc
Fifth Third Bancorp

MFC is in the middle of the pack sorted by weight. But still it does not explain why on a day when S&P 500 Financials drops around 3%, TSE financials drop less than 2%,

FTN dropped 17.7%

This fund is weird.

Maybe confidence in the fund management is deteriorating and causing its drop, more rapidly than the fund holdings.
Was going from memory ... thanks!
Deal Addict
Jun 18, 2008
4803 posts
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Montreal
Jojo_Madman wrote:
Oct 10th, 2018 4:23 pm

Yes, have rode this horse before and made lots of money each time ... not sure about the sell-off, maybe MFC pending court case decision although MFC is a small portion of the fund and somewhat old news ... I'm more inclined to believe its oversold now on jittery investors and stop-losses are being triggered and driving it lower ... it appears a number of similar structured products are also down ... only in for a small position IMO and will see where it goes from here, and may add more
Elfwood wrote:
Oct 10th, 2018 4:36 pm
Weird, according to this

https://www.quadravest.com/ftn-fund-features

Holdings Sorted by weight as at September 28, 2018:

JPMorgan Chase & Co
Bank of America Corp
Citigroup Inc
Canadian Imperial Bank of Commerce
Toronto-Dominion Bank
Royal Bank of Canada
Sun Life Financial Inc
Goldman Sachs Group Inc
Manulife Financial Corp
Wells Fargo & Co
Bank of Nova Scotia
Bank of Montreal
National Bank of Canada
Great-West Lifeco Inc
Fifth Third Bancorp

MFC is in the middle of the pack sorted by weight. But still it does not explain why on a day when S&P 500 Financials drops around 3%, TSE financials drop less than 2%,

FTN dropped 17.7%

This fund is weird.

Maybe confidence in the fund management is deteriorating and causing its drop, more rapidly than the fund holdings.

It is clearly evident a bunch of you have no idea what you are buying and how these work and how they get their yields. It has absolutely nothing to do with MFC.
Deal Addict
Feb 4, 2015
3758 posts
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Canada, Eh!!
Internet wires being repaired/replaced in our area so did not have internet for most of day.

So in between was able to login.

Bought:
ITM AMD calls, TQQQ stock, M and V calls, BAC and C calls for trading account
BA, CRM, AMZN stock for investment account
VGRO, VFV for registered accounts

Phew!!
Last edited by georvu on Oct 10th, 2018 4:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Oct 22, 2014
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Toronto
ottofly wrote:
Oct 10th, 2018 4:42 pm
It is clearly evident a bunch of you have no idea what you are buying and how these work.
I didn't buy it. Just doing some research for others.

Don't be angry at people who lost money today...
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Nov 9, 2013
2543 posts
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Edmonton, AB
CCHIPSS wrote:
Oct 10th, 2018 4:19 pm
But not that bad compared to what? Comparing to one of those days during the 2008 crush?

When was the last time TSX went up 2-3% in a day?
Honestly, who cares what it does in a day, a week, a month, or even a year - the long term trend is upwards.

Excluding dividends it's up 19% over the last 5 years and 13% over the last 10 years (i.e. both positive, despite days where it would drop 2-3%).
Sr. Member
User avatar
Jan 28, 2007
526 posts
295 upvotes
Earth for now
ottofly wrote:
Oct 10th, 2018 4:42 pm
It is clearly evident a bunch of you have no idea what you are buying and how these work and how they get their yields. It has absolutely nothing to do with MFC.
It's easy to just shoot negative comments at people instead of offering advice or helping for the common good ... if your such a genius why not explain "your theory" then why it's being sold off, instead of criticism? ...
Deal Addict
Jun 18, 2008
4803 posts
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Montreal
Elfwood wrote:
Oct 10th, 2018 4:43 pm
I didn't buy it. Just doing some research for others.

Don't be angry at people who lost money today...
Who's angry? I lost money too. I was trying to imply you shouldn't just be buying this blindly because it's down, the dynamics here are not simply buying as if it were an ETF. Tons of beginners read these forums and just jump onboard simply because others have. It's a more complicated instrument. This fell to $2.00 in 2008.
Deal Addict
Oct 22, 2014
2818 posts
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Toronto
ottofly wrote:
Oct 10th, 2018 5:02 pm
Who's angry? I lost money too. I was trying to imply you shouldn't just be buying this blindly because it's down, the dynamics here are not simply buying as if it were an ETF. Tons of beginners read these forums and just jump onboard simply because others have. It's a more complicated instrument. This fell to $2.00 in 2008.
Care to explain why this instrument appears to be leveraged?
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Jun 18, 2008
4803 posts
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Montreal
Elfwood wrote:
Oct 10th, 2018 5:09 pm
Care to explain why this instrument appears to be leveraged?
They use derivatives and sell covered calls against their positions and use the premiums to increase yield. Preferreds get paid before Class A gets paid. If NAV falls below $15.00 the dividend gets cut for Class A this will tumble and trade well below NAV just like it traded well above NAV last week.
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Mar 13, 2018
1379 posts
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CCHIPSS wrote:
Oct 10th, 2018 4:19 pm
But not that bad compared to what? Comparing to one of those days during the 2008 crush?

When was the last time TSX went up 2-3% in a day?
What does it matter? Day? Hour? Minute? Unless your investment horizon is one day always
Deal Addict
Feb 7, 2006
2522 posts
1004 upvotes
CCHIPSS wrote:
Oct 10th, 2018 4:19 pm
But not that bad compared to what? Comparing to one of those days during the 2008 crush?

When was the last time TSX went up 2-3% in a day?
TSX has risen 2% or greater roughly 94 times since sept 10 2000. And Feb 12 2016 was the last time the TSX rose >2%. The TSX rose 2.94% a few weeks earlier on Jan 22 2016.Grinning Face With Smiling Eyes
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Nov 4, 2016
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Gboard2 wrote:
Oct 10th, 2018 6:05 pm
What does it matter? Day? Hour? Minute? Unless your investment horizon is one day always
It wasn't just a day. It was down for 5 days straight. In a bull market, after downing for 2-3 days, the market would rebound. But so far we seen collapse upon further collapse. Today is the worst day for TSX in this series, falling over 2%.

No one can predict the market. But we can see regular bull market behaviors. And this past few days wasn't normal. If it isn't acting like a bull, maybe it is a bear.

Be careful. That is all I am saying.

As for myself, I sold my worst performing stock today and will be staying cash with that for now. I would gladly be wrong, since then all my other stocks will make me money. But I am afraid I would be forced to sell off my other stocks also due to Stop Loss Limit.
Last edited by CCHIPSS on Oct 10th, 2018 7:07 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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