Whose fault would this be - in Ontario?

[slomo]

Car A gets green traffic signal and is making a U-turn on a 6-lane road. Car B is making a right turn on red traffic signal.
Assuming B stopped first at the intersection and then proceed, whose fault would this be if A hits B on the left side?

Points:
A: Green signal means I can make a U-turn.
B: How I would I know he is making a U-turn and not a left? He is also crossing the lanes.

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..............................................< A (U-Turn, on green)
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..............................................|->
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.............................................|
.............................................B (Right Turn, on red)

[iownyou]

whoever went into the wrong lane.... obviously there is enough room for both of you.....

[slomo]

whoever went into the wrong lane.... obviously there is enough room for both of you.....

Let's turn A into an 18 foot trailer. Same question.

[Abstracpoetic]

If A was an 18' trailer, and you guys were both stopped at the light at the same time, you would have had plenty of time to make the turn before the trailer could have hit you.

what part of the car was damaged? front, middle or back?

[slomo]

If A was an 18' trailer, and you guys were both stopped at the light at the same time, you would have had plenty of time to make the turn before the trailer could have hit you.

what part of the car was damaged? front, middle or back?

Let's say the middle, to make it more difficult.

And also it does not have to be an 18 foot trailer. The road could be a 4 lane road.

[koffey]

WFT is going on in this thread... What is with all the switching up once you get an answer. Were you involvd in this situation? Yes? Describe it excatly. Or what's with all the hypothetical questions? Either way, red light guy is in the wrong.

[rems]

But why would it hit the middle of the car? Wouldn't A stop first?
The only way I could see this being an issue is if B doesn't stop to check it's safe to turn (in which case B would be at fault). Because you can't be going that fast making a U turn that you can't stop from hitting car B and vice versa. Unless you're saying they're doing this on purpose...

[Manatus]

WFT is going on in this thread... What is with all the switching up once you get an answer. Were you involvd in this situation? Yes? Describe it excatly. Or what's with all the hypothetical questions? Either way, red light guy is in the wrong.

The driver of automobile “A” is 100 per cent at fault and the driver of automobile “B” is not at fault for an incident that occurs,
(a) when automobile “A” is backing up;
(b) when automobile “A” is making a U-turn; or
(c) when the driver of, or a passenger in, automobile “A” opens the automobile door or leaves the door open.
O. Reg. 276/90, s. 19.

http://www.ibc.ca/en/car_insurance/d...tion-rules.pdf

So on that basis I would imagine 50% fault, since the above states 0% at fault, but failing to obey the red light (turning when obviously it was not safe to do so) would be 100% at fault.

[vero95]

^this
the vehicle making an u-turn is at fault

[iownyou]

WFT is going on in this thread... What is with all the switching up once you get an answer. Were you involvd in this situation? Yes? Describe it excatly. Or what's with all the hypothetical questions? Either way, red light guy is in the wrong.

lol... what if A was mildly intoxicated and B was texting on the phone~~~~~

[DJ_Peanuts22]

Car B would be at fault since they did not make sure the roadway was clear before proceeding to make the turn.

[koffey]

http://www.ibc.ca/en/car_insurance/d...tion-rules.pdf

How do you know if there was no sign indicating, do not turn on red? The same link to the document...

14. (1) This section applies with respect to an incident that occurs at an intersection with traffic signs.
(2) If the incident occurs when the driver of automobile “B” fails to obey a stop sign, yield sign or a
similar sign or flares or other signals on the ground, the driver of automobile “A” is not at fault and
the driver of automobile “B” is 100 per cent at fault for the incident.
(3) If the driver of each automobile fails to obey a stop sign, the driver of each automobile is 50 per
cent at fault for the incident.
(4) If it cannot be established who failed to obey a stop sign, the driver of each automobile shall be
deemed to be 50 per cent at fault for the incident.
(5) If, at an all-way stop intersection, automobile “A” arrives at the intersection first and stops, the driver
of automobile “A” is not at fault and the driver of automobile “B” is 100 per cent at fault for
the incident.
(6) If, at an all-way stop intersection, both automobiles arrive at the intersection at the same time and
stop, with automobile “A” to the right of automobile “B”, the driver of automobile “A” is not at
fault and the driver of automobile “B” is 100 per cent at fault for the incident.
(7) If it cannot be established who arrived at the all-way stop intersection first, the driver of each automobile
shall be deemed to be 50 per cent at fault for the incident.

18. The driver of automobile “A” is 100 per cent at fault and the driver of automobile “B” is not at fault
for an incident in which automobile “A” collides with automobile “B” when the driver of automobile
“A” fails to obey,
(a) a police officer’s direction;
(b) a do not enter sign;
(c) a prohibited passing sign; or
(d) a prohibited turn sign.

Otherwise, its looking like 50/50. But still blaming car B, had the red.

[rems]

Seems like 14(2) (failed to obey red light) and 19(b) (U-turn is at fault) would be at play here so 4(2) kicks in?

Despite subsection (1), if two rules apply with respect to an incident involving two automobiles and
if under one rule the insured is 100 per cent at fault and under the other the insured is not at fault
for the incident, the insured shall be deemed to be 50 per cent at fault for the incident.

[slomo]

I know a similar accident like this had happened, but since I am not involved, I don't know what the resolution was. So it was not 100% hypothetical, it could happen, since ON allows U-turn on traffic light. I want to know who is at fault in this case.

Most likely what happen was incoming traffic from left to right was heavy, so both A and B waits at the light. B saw A and was assuming A is making a left turn. A may or may not see B.

I had some points to give to both drivers:

Points for A:
B is in my left blind spot when I am waiting for traffic, when I am turning when the last car goes away, B moves and I had no time to hit the brake.

Points for B:
Assuming that A is turning left, no way can he know if A is making a U-turn. Once the traffic clears, he needs time to check for pedestrian on his right side, putting B on his left blind spot.

[pinoybrat]

it is prohibited to make a U turn wherever there are traffic lights... so i assumed its A fault