Why do people visit China expect to get by with just English?

[divx]

But how is that any different than any other country?

Travel to Toronto and you have no idea about cottage country, northern Ontario, the farm belts.....completely different.

cottage country, norther ontario, farm belts, are all beautiful places, the only difference between canadian cities is population, housing, transportation, people's live style is generally comparable.

[divx]

I will still go and your right...think of it as a learning experience I'm very open minded having traveled quite a bit...thru Taiwan/hk and Japan 2-3 times. It's just china doesn't paint a good picture from the western world/media. Im sure it will be fun. It's all what I make of it. I'll try to disconnect from the negative.

Thanks

good luck, it's not just the western media paint china bad, the chinese living there hates china too.

[divx]

Sure the do...relatively money is pumped into Toronto, Ottawa, Montreal for the express purpose of getting visitors and making an impression.

Have you travelled to poorer areas like Newfoundland or other parts of Atlantic Canada. While I love these areas, they far from projecting the same image and quality of life. We drove through towns where there were countless buildings are almost falling down... If i consider work, There are many hospitals that are so remote or don't have the utilities, or don't have people who could use the equipment we sell. Also take a look at some of our reservations....

The only difference is scale.

Again, visit any city and you don't see the whole country.

As for cities like Beijing....you can definitely get a real understanding that life is different and hard. Just watch the people, walk through the hutongs. You can tell within seconds that it is different.

a lot people bringing up examples of poor areas in canada on indian reserves, while they are indeed poor areas, but the choice to stay in the poor area is decided by the individual, the government does not restrict them from moving, how can you compare that with China? In China the government tells you where you can and can't live. So if you got stuck in a poor area then you can't do anything to get better. Basically to sum up, if you are poor in a 1st world country, it's your own damn fault, if you are poor in a 3rd world country, then it's the government's fault.

[toisanwu]

a lot people bringing up examples of poor areas in canada on indian reserves, while they are indeed poor areas, but the choice to stay in the poor area is decided by the individual, the government does not restrict them from moving, how can you compare that with China? In China the government tells you where you can and can't live. So if you got stuck in a poor area then you can't do anything to get better. Basically to sum up, if you are poor in a 1st world country, it's your own damn fault, if you are poor in a 3rd world country, then it's the government's fault.

The whole discussion is going off tangent WRT to the original topic. But anyhow...

I am usually pretty critical of the Chinese government, but in this regard (WRT the bold), you are so 80's Right now, everything in China is money talks. As a Chinese citizen, one could pretty much live where he/she wants nowadays.

As for the Native Indians, they've ended up in the reserves not because of their own choices. You should read up on some recent Canadian history. Yes, they could all leave the reserves now, but they have been living off the merger handouts of the fed government for way too long. They lost their incentives to fight for better lives. Sad, truly sad.

[nerak]

a lot people bringing up examples of poor areas in canada on indian reserves, while they are indeed poor areas, but the choice to stay in the poor area is decided by the individual, the government does not restrict them from moving, how can you compare that with China? In China the government tells you where you can and can't live. So if you got stuck in a poor area then you can't do anything to get better. Basically to sum up, if you are poor in a 1st world country, it's your own damn fault, if you are poor in a 3rd world country, then it's the government's fault.

Natives lose some perks of their status when they leave the reserve. I don't think there's a relevant enough point to drag them into this conversation regardless of whether you think they choose to live off the government. Sort of apples and oranges.

"Off-reserve band members have only partial tax exemptions and may not be exempt from provincial tax laws." link

I also agree that money talks in China. Otherwise, the government can just tell people they must live in that empty residential city that was built. And those that were removed from their homes from the dam building could easily just live in one of those empty detached homes. And they are *slowly* coming to terms with democracy (I know I'll get flamed for this, but there IS a little bit more flexibility within what the government's find comfortable). Continuing with the dam example, the government has listened to people's wish to not be removed from their homes for the further building of the dams. And finally, people flocked to places like Shanghai from the rural areas the same way the Canadian ancestors flocked to the larger cities decades ago all for a chance of better life. It's pretty much how your iphone factory fills their plants.

And if it's true that it's the government's fault you're poor in China, then people wouldn't be starving themselves for 3 months just to buy an LV bag. There are capitalistic influences.

[elmst200]

well, you minced half of Beijing's population.

China is not a free country, people are restricted to moving around the country.

The number of 12m is for people with "resident permits" in Beijing. There are another 10m+ people who are residents of Beijing but do not have the "permits". Almost all statistics and social benefits are targeting the former 12m people while the latter enjoy virtually nothing, although they are law-abiding citizens who are working and paying taxes to the city.

Beijing have a population of around 12 million

[elmst200]

English in China is regarded as a language of higher being (elites), although the English spoken by the elites of China is to broken to understand. Most upper-class people send their kids to English crach schools in hope of being among the elites.

[nerak]

English in China is regarded as a language of higher being (elites), although the English spoken by the elites of China is to broken to understand. Most upper-class people send their kids to English crach schools in hope of being among the elites.

I don't know about it to comment, but this just reminded me of the professor that went onto their national TV channel (CCTV?) earlier this year saying anyone that doesn't speak Mandarin is a dog. Cantonese doesn't count, and English (Brits) too. He obviously wasn't sent to an English crach school as a child. Hahaha. [context: how dare HKers speak to mainlanders in cantonese?!?!?!] Such blatant racism.

[nalababe]

English in China is regarded as a language of higher being (elites), although the English spoken by the elites of China is to broken to understand. Most upper-class people send their kids to English crach schools in hope of being among the elites.

Our good friends taught at one top English based schools in Beijing. They were excellent teachers (extremely well respected in the IB community world wide). The positions are extremely highly fought after...and they therefore get the best of the best.

The education that they provide is exceptional, the materials and programs they implemented would match even the top private schools here...the English of any kids attending was not broken...

[vaportrails]

I'm gonna state the obvious since it doesn't seem to be obvious to a lot of people, if you go visit China (mainland), do NOT expect anyone to speak English at an usable level over there, so if you can only speak English, you will have a heck of a time unless you have a guide. I don't know why is that people kept asking if it's doable, where did you get that impression? Chinese people don't bother with English, and yes, I'm aware that the schools teach English but so does our schools which teaches French, and how many of you can speak French at an usable level? I thought it is reasonable to expect Quebecker to speak English, but when I went there around 2000, and went in to A&W (or was it KFC) that nobody speaks English, I had to point to the menu item. Is it too much to ask for the Quebeckers to speak English than to ask the Chinese to speak English?

If you can't order from a fast food menu in french, you're a sorry excuse for a Canadian. Oh, and lol@Quebecker - You're such a trog. Use fracophone or quebecois.

I learned french in school and I can hold a conversation.

[divx]

The whole discussion is going off tangent WRT to the original topic. But anyhow...

I am usually pretty critical of the Chinese government, but in this regard (WRT the bold), you are so 80's Right now, everything in China is money talks. As a Chinese citizen, one could pretty much live where he/she wants nowadays.

As for the Native Indians, they've ended up in the reserves not because of their own choices. You should read up on some recent Canadian history. Yes, they could all leave the reserves now, but they have been living off the merger handouts of the fed government for way too long. They lost their incentives to fight for better lives. Sad, truly sad.

my info is current as of last year, there is a bit more freedom as you can move but you do not enjoy the same status as locals, at least not until you get all the paperwork sorted out after bribing bunch officials.

the natives were wronged in the past, but that's no excuse for the present. I don't hold the present day japanese responsible for the WW2 genocide, there is no ill will now and all is forgiven, let what's past be behind us. I'm not aware of any Chinese using that as an excuse for incompetence, nor are there any descendents of the Japanese who got rounded up during WW2. The jews were wronged before and they aren't relying on handouts and been bottom feeders. Can you name another group of people besides the natives who feel so entitled to be leeches of society?

[divx]

English in China is regarded as a language of higher being (elites), although the English spoken by the elites of China is to broken to understand. Most upper-class people send their kids to English crach schools in hope of being among the elites.

indeed, those elite rich people, specialized private education like that is incredibility expensive, cost more than an average family's salary, you gotta be loaded or morally bankrupted to backdoor in there.

If you can't order from a fast food menu in french, you're a sorry excuse for a Canadian. Oh, and lol@Quebecker - You're such a trog. Use fracophone or quebecois.

I learned french in school and I can hold a conversation.

it's only fair for the minority to learn the language of the majority than the other way around.