Automotive

Why EVs are garbage

  • Last Updated:
  • Jul 16th, 2018 9:51 pm
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Deal Addict
Mar 27, 2004
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vkizzle wrote:
Jul 11th, 2018 2:17 pm
LMAO...instant torque from a Nissan Leaf is the equivalent of a sneeze!
have you driven a leaf?
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oasis100 wrote:
Jul 11th, 2018 11:50 pm
you can't be serious.
What didn't you understand? I ran down the numbers already with the other guy and it's still cheaper. Bonus is I'm not stuck near a stranger or someone annoying.

Plus I save over 1000$ but I understand some of you don't enjoy your family or family time so ymmv
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Mar 27, 2004
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NoPistons wrote:
Jul 11th, 2018 8:48 pm
Not really when you factor in all costs.

If you use GasBuddy to calculate cost for a trip from lets say Hamilton ON to Vancouver BC it calculates gas as 450 bucks round trip. (2015 nissan rogue) oh and factor in motel (if you dont plan on rotating drivers) probably 100 ish a night for two stops. Its about 45H driving.

easily around 700-900 ish for a trip give or take.... now how much is it to fly two adults and two children to bc ? 2575$ on Westjet for a round trip and a week apart flights and thats economy and lowest rates at this moment per their website.

Sorry its more economical to drive
45 hours of driving, stopping 2 nights...are you insane?

I would like to see you do that. You're driving 8 to 10 hours TOPS every day.. so thats 4 nights of hotel at least each way..800$

the cra uses 55 cents /km to account for depreciation, maintenance..license, etc. that 4442km trip results in 2443$ ONE WAY.. or 4886$ round trip.. Lets say you use a 30 cent/km depreciation.. its still 2665$

Then the gas to drive 8884km..lets say 8L/100km.. at 1.30$ L for 87octane gas will set you back 923$ in gas. And then the value of time..

I punched in some random dates in August for Air Canada. about 660$ a person ROUND TRIP...2640$ for a family of 4.

How is driving more economical??? your guerrilla math is hilarious.
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oasis100 wrote:
Jul 11th, 2018 11:54 pm
have you driven a leaf?
Why, the numbers lie?
0-60 at 7.5sec is quicker in real life?
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Aug 22, 2011
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radeonboy wrote:
Jul 11th, 2018 7:34 pm
This is what you failed to find.

The results:
0-50 km/h: 3.1 s
0-60 mph: 7.5 s
0-100 km/h in 8.0 s
0-140 km/h in 17.0 s
max speed in 18.6 s

80-120 km/h in 5.6 s
70-140 km/h in 12.4 s
Wow, that was neck breaking fast "insta torque"???

Member
Jun 1, 2017
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oasis100 wrote:
Jul 12th, 2018 12:27 am
45 hours of driving, stopping 2 nights...are you insane?

I would like to see you do that. You're driving 8 to 10 hours TOPS every day.. so thats 4 nights of hotel at least each way..800$

the cra uses 55 cents /km to account for depreciation, maintenance..license, etc. that 4442km trip results in 2443$ ONE WAY.. or 4886$ round trip.. Lets say you use a 30 cent/km depreciation.. its still 2665$

Then the gas to drive 8884km..lets say 8L/100km.. at 1.30$ L for 87octane gas will set you back 923$ in gas. And then the value of time..

I punched in some random dates in August for Air Canada. about 660$ a person ROUND TRIP...2640$ for a family of 4.

How is driving more economical??? your guerrilla math is hilarious.
Rotating shifts while driving so you can get most out of one day, not everyone is single .... 200 a night? Pfft please... Motels are around 125 a night even less if you use day rates.

Seriously who cares about depreciation, I bought this car to drive until it dies. Everything is already paid for including insurance and maintenance because like I said, insurance is on the car no matter if you fly or not.

Litterally the car depreciates just sitting at home while flying as it gets older.... Like I said two oil changes to be fair 120 bucks.

Ok let's say your gas calculation/4 days of motel (I spent less in motel for a vacation to Ottawa but ok whatyou ever you say....I think I paid 169 a day if you want a receipt I'll see if I can find it) 923+120+500(2 motels each way day rates)+food 200+ actually spending time with your family having fun? Priceless.

= 1743. Still on top. We're talking about a personal vehicle here not a company car where I have to worry about maintenance (which I do myself) and depreciation as this car lost it's value anyways because I drive 30k+ a year so I could care less since it's a Rogue not a Ferrari.

Everyone keeps forgetting cars are meant to be driven depreciation matters to you but not to everybody as most people just plan to use them for their useful life, not to say that they will drive it into the ground.

Also the car is licensed and insured no matter if I fly or not so I'm actually wasting less money by actually using it and not just sitting in my parking spot.

1743>2640 .... Hmm factoring in actual costs it's still better. Plus I don't have to deal with delays, cancellations, airport security.

I see your point though if you just want to get there and be cramped next to someone in economy that's good for you but some of us actually like being outside and driving. I myself can't see myself flying.


Plus i save 897$ for ice cream for my trip lol or whatever you like.
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Oct 15, 2008
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vkizzle wrote:
Jul 12th, 2018 6:34 am
Wow, that was neck breaking fast "insta torque"???

0-50 km/h: 3.1 s

Keep arguing all you want at the end of the day, EV's owners are the one happy about their purchase. Besos.
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Aug 7, 2007
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Automotive has turned into crying children.
If you really have a hate for ICE or hate for EVs, then you clearly have an agenda that you're trying to push.

Mods need to step up and end this crying and get back to proper discussions about cars.
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Mar 10, 2006
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I won't bash EVs as I do believe it's a great technology that is evolving and growing up, but also think it's immature yet.
If I would get a second car, then EV is an excellent candidate. Primary/only car? Not yet.

Here's a real-world use case where I am most concerned:
I travel around the city/region at least 1-2 weekends per month. Mostly it is a visit to my friend, extended family, or events/festivals/parks/attractions with my family including a pre-schooler.
Distance between A to B (one-way) is often 80-150km, so unless I hypermile the car or an expensive EV with 400+km range, I definitely need some meaningful amount of recharge somewhere in the middle.
My major concern here - I know there are a few or several chargers available at some destinations - shopping malls, big chain stores (Ikea, Walmart), parking lots of corporate buildings, and in very rare cases some public parkings. (still, I see only a few between 3-5 per plaza/mall/building parkings)
But what if I am visiting a city park? my friend? my family? They do not have a charger.
Even if they do and generously offer to use the charger or I use standard 120v outlet (according to my research it charges maybe 5-6 km of range per hour, please correct me if wrong), it's like I'm asking them to pay my gas. Do I ask them 'hey next time you get the bill, calculate how much I used and I will pay you the portion'? Or don't say anything and just assume they will pay my gas because they are my best friends/family? Do I search & plan in advance, to be able to detour & spend maybe another half an hour at nowhere? It may not be anything if you are alone, but I am mostly with my family in such situation.
Cases where my destination has an empty parking spot at my arrival with a fast charger waiting for me will be maybe..5% of all my driving?

I mean, I think BEV is such a great concept where you get the performance you need in typical urban driving, it costs a fraction of gas to drive (this will probably change when EV adoption becomes larger), much less parts & much less maintenance...all is good. But it's just in such an immature state for me and many other typical Canadian family.
I myself paid for a Model 3 deposit a few years ago. I asked around 'why did you buy ICE when you can buy a BEV?' All of them ended up saying 'yeah it sounds great but it's just not practical for my use. Why do I have to pay more and force myself to limit my driving habit and life style, hoping that it will break even after x years?' I agree 100%.
There are a few others who chose a BEV. All of them were
1. singles, and/or
2. already had another car as main driver (mostly ICE, I've seen only 2 people who own 2 EVs).

I will have to choose my next car after 3 years.
In terms of choices, I am certain that we will see a lot more EV options after 2020 and my choices are (assuming EV prices are reasonable compared to their ICE competitors):
1. BEV as long as the infrastructure is built, it's much more popular & common (so more destinations have chargers available and I can get away with such conception that I'm stealing/using my friend's or brother's hydro) and charging time becomes comparable to filling up gas.
2. PHEV is ideal (uses electricity for daily commute and charges overnight, and gas for longer trips) but I'm hesitant to own it as I think it's just combination of both ICE + EV for maintenance and break-down.
3. Another ICE - it may be a dinosaur in 2021 but it's a proven and mature technology.
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Jun 1, 2017
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terry0703 wrote:
Jul 12th, 2018 8:33 am
I won't bash EVs as I do believe it's a great technology that is evolving and growing up, but also think it's immature yet.
If I would get a second car, then EV is an excellent candidate. Primary/only car? Not yet.

Here's a real-world use case where I am most concerned:
I travel around the city/region at least 1-2 weekends per month. Mostly it is a visit to my friend, extended family, or events/festivals/parks/attractions with my family including a pre-schooler.
Distance between A to B (one-way) is often 80-150km, so unless I hypermile the car or an expensive EV with 400+km range, I definitely need some meaningful amount of recharge somewhere in the middle.
My major concern here - I know there are a few or several chargers available at some destinations - shopping malls, big chain stores (Ikea, Walmart), parking lots of corporate buildings, and in very rare cases some public parkings. (still, I see only a few between 3-5 per plaza/mall/building parkings)
But what if I am visiting a city park? my friend? my family? They do not have a charger.
Even if they do and generously offer to use the charger or I use standard 120v outlet (according to my research it charges maybe 5-6 km of range per hour, please correct me if wrong), it's like I'm asking them to pay my gas. Do I ask them 'hey next time you get the bill, calculate how much I used and I will pay you the portion'? Or don't say anything and just assume they will pay my gas because they are my best friends/family? Do I search & plan in advance, to be able to detour & spend maybe another half an hour at nowhere? It may not be anything if you are alone, but I am mostly with my family in such situation.
Cases where my destination has an empty parking spot at my arrival with a fast charger waiting for me will be maybe..5% of all my driving?

I mean, I think BEV is such a great concept where you get the performance you need in typical urban driving, it costs a fraction of gas to drive (this will probably change when EV adoption becomes larger), much less parts & much less maintenance...all is good. But it's just in such an immature state for me and many other typical Canadian family.
I myself paid for a Model 3 deposit a few years ago. I asked around 'why did you buy ICE when you can buy a BEV?' All of them ended up saying 'yeah it sounds great but it's just not practical for my use. Why do I have to pay more and force myself to limit my driving habit and life style, hoping that it will break even after x years?' I agree 100%.
There are a few others who chose a BEV. All of them were
1. singles, and/or
2. already had another car as main driver (mostly ICE, I've seen only 2 people who own 2 EVs).

I will have to choose my next car after 3 years.
In terms of choices, I am certain that we will see a lot more EV options after 2020 and my choices are (assuming EV prices are reasonable compared to their ICE competitors):
1. BEV as long as the infrastructure is built, it's much more popular & common (so more destinations have chargers available and I can get away with such conception that I'm stealing/using my friend's or brother's hydro) and charging time becomes comparable to filling up gas.
2. PHEV is ideal (uses electricity for daily commute and charges overnight, and gas for longer trips) but I'm hesitant to own it as I think it's just combination of both ICE + EV for maintenance and break-down.
3. Another ICE - it may be a dinosaur in 2021 but it's a proven and mature technology.
Well said, and I agree with you 100%. I would buy one if the prices were reasonable for a long distance EV because I drive 30k+ a year.

Most Canadian families need more space/distance on a tank than short commutes. Space is key in my market as I need a Rogue size SUV EV without the Model X price tag.
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Mar 27, 2004
2588 posts
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Toronto
vkizzle wrote:
Jul 12th, 2018 6:26 am
Why, the numbers lie?
0-60 at 7.5sec is quicker in real life?
It has 236 lb-ft torque..
0-60 times isn't everything, but it's nothing to sneeze at..

My other car is a Mercedes GLA250, does 0-60 in 6.9sec. 258 lb-ft of torque.
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Apr 21, 2004
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At least in Ontario, these babies are going to cost more with the EVIP cancellation.
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Aug 22, 2011
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oasis100 wrote:
Jul 12th, 2018 8:48 am
It has 236 lb-ft torque..
0-60 times isn't everything, but it's nothing to sneeze at..

My other car is a Mercedes GLA250, does 0-60 in 6.9sec. 258 lb-ft of torque.
I'm just poking fun, but it's really nothing to brag about!
I have no hate for BEVs and I actually had a reservation for the Model 3, but it didn't happen this time, as I decided to spend $60K+ on an SUV instead (getting way more for my money).
Sr. Member
Apr 4, 2017
540 posts
72 upvotes
Toronto
if you drive 12k a year - you dont need EV car. EV cars are people who do long distance driving - 30-50k a year.

plus why would you pay extra 10-20K more to get eh EV car - where you can get new ICE car for less than that.

EV rebate is now cancelled

I do about 40k a year and i was spending 350-400 month just on gas - now i i maybe spend 100$/month on GAS.
Jr. Member
Mar 3, 2012
139 posts
67 upvotes
Montreal, QC
ysl5710 wrote:
Jul 12th, 2018 9:38 am

EV rebate is now cancelled

I do about 40k a year and i was spending 350-400 month just on gas - now i i maybe spend 100$/month on GAS.
Wrong!

EV rebate is not cancel everywhere. THey still exist in canada, US and other country.

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