Automotive

Why ICE (petrol/gas/diesel) cars are garbage

  • Last Updated:
  • Jul 21st, 2018 5:07 pm
[OP]
Deal Fanatic
User avatar
Jan 8, 2006
9172 posts
2549 upvotes
Toronto, Ontario

Why ICE (petrol/gas/diesel) cars are garbage

I feel there should a separate thread on the ICE cars

So why are these dinosaurs bad you may ask?

1. Unsustainable polluters
- While many may not care about environment it is still an important point.
- Some may argue that production of EV and some forms of electricity may pollute as well, which may be true. However, at the end of the day ICE cars pollute MORE than EVs.
- Nitrogen oxides (NOx) coming from diesel garbage contributes to worldwide premature deaths and has a direct impact on people's respiratory system and other bodily functions. It can cause breathing problems, headaches, chronically reduced lung function, eye irritation, loss of appetite, corroded teeth, and much more. Indirectly damages the ecosystems people and animal rely on (plants/animals). Last I read a few years back it is estimated that a minimum of 38,000 people a year die early due to diesel emissions. And more to this it adds to long term illnesses, lost work days because of health, and some children will choke and die because of this crap in the air. (contributed by radeonboy)

2. Performance
- while *some* ICE cars may have impressive 0-60 times, their overall real world performance is poor compared to EVs
- most EVs should be able to take down even performance M/R/AMG/Type R/etc. in regular traffic condition
- EVs have performance where it counts, around the city. You press and pedal and go, no nonsense of putting into S (or other sport mode), engaging launch control, or making sure you are in the right power band. EVs have 100% torque everywhere.
- Many, if not most, ICE cars have poor weight distribution due to engine location and other components. At the same time pretty much all EVs have optimal weight distribution as there is no engine weight and battery is located at the bottom, giving most (if not all) EVs that perfect 50/50 weight distribution
- It is much easier to pass other cars in EV than ICE. Just press (or floor) the pedal and your are done. ICE would generally require a slight (or major) engine/transmission/turbo hesitation, preventing you from instantly passing the other car.

3. Cost
- Now, many may argue that EVs cost more initially and while that partially may be true they pretty much cost you almost nothing to drive and maintain
- there is almost zero maintenance, mostly consisting of battery test every few years and tire rotations
- ICE on the other hand have maintenance cost, such as oil change, spark plugs, and are more prone to failures due to multiple moving engine/transmission/drive terrain parts
- Of course, all ICE cars need GAS to drive and it is not cheap. Most also need premium gas, which costs even more
- EVs do need electricity to run, which only costs fraction of the gas cost. However, a prudent EV owner mostly charges at FREE charging locations. Many are available, even with Level 3 charging

4. Obnoxious exhaust/engine sound
- some may like this part and shoot of their fart cannons, but most members of the society *over the age of 18* do not appreciate these goofs. No one wants to hear your machine gun going off.
- In addition, it is very easy to tell when someone is gunning it in ICE, where EV is whisper quite even when pedal to the floor

5. Convenience

- ICE cars cannot drive in HOV lane unless they meet their restrictions (min people or completely banned out of them at traffic time). On the other hand EV can be in those lanes at ALL times without any restrictions. This could be a big deal to some that commute in traffic
- Summer times means no idling in certain location, so your ICE needs to be shut off or a ticket is due. EVs never idle as they don't have an engine and once stopped no idling would happen.
- Some argue that EVs are pain in the ass to charge as you need to plug them in at home. I would argue the opposite. Charging at home is as easy as plugging in your cellphone and is rather convenient that going to gas station when you need to refuel. In addition, going to gas station may mean waiting in line, sometimes this may also include an interaction with not the most pleasant members of the society. There is also a possibility of being mugged in certain areas + scammed by some cashier while using your credit/debit card (happened to me once)
- Overall ICE cars are pain the ass to refuel, as compared to EV
- In the summer your ICE car gets quite hot due to engine heat and once parked in the garage will create an *oven like* environment in there. EVs do not suffer from this, as there is no engine, hence no heat produced from it. I know this from personal comparison.
- Due to the whisper quiet nature of EV they are better cars for families with small children or pets. My dog hates driving ICE due to sound and lack of smoothness. ICE cars have transmissions which are jerky and certainly not as smooth as no transmission driving in EV. She loves driving in EV as its quiet, has stadium style seats at back (better visibility for her), and the car has the smoothest driving so my dog does not fly around the car. I can imagine this would be very similar with small children too.
- EVs can be driven with one pedal. Press pedal to accelerate, release to decelerate. ICE needs at least 2(gas+brake, in auto), sometimes 3+shifting (gas+brake+clutch pedal+constant shifting, in manual) pedals to operate. This may not sound like a big deal at first, but try both in city driving (especially in traffic) and you will immediately know that EV is much less taxing to drive in those conditions.
- ICE cars need warm up before going, especially in winter. Many may argue that is not true, but the reality is that when you turn on ICE car, especially after longer stay, you need to wait at least 30s so that the engine would turn over and oil would pass through the engine. Doing otherwise would make your car feel like a slow slug without much power. In addition, avoiding to do so may ultimately mean problems down the road. In comparison, you just turn ON EV with button and go right away. There is no warm up, as there is no engine/components to warm up
- Preconditioning temperature without use of the engine. Means I can do it at home in a closed garage without the risk of carbon monoxide poisoning. Can also schedule to precondition it to a known departure time. Very handy in winter and hot summer days (contributed by seafish)

6. Buying ICE car means buying GAS/DIESEL for it, which means supporting its ultimate source.
- This ultimately means that whether you like or not, you support gas company, which supports the refinery, which supports the original source/country of origin.
- Why is this bad? Well, some GAS/DIESEL produced comes from dictatorship or *dictatorship style* countries (ex. Russia, Saudi Arabia, USA etc.) who pretty much abuse their society members and/or wage wars around the world by using YOUR money. Whether you like it or not, YOU may support state sponsored terrorism and/or their dictatorship regime.
- gas companies like to gouge their consumers and there is nothing you can do about it, you must pay. No, Doug Ford is not going to save you. The only realistic solution is to get an ev or not drive, drive less.

7. Driving ICE car may mean driving aggressively/unsafe/rude
- EVs push their owners to drive them efficiently and conserve, prolonging range and ultimately promoting safe driving (lower speed, less weaving in out, anticipating with regen braking)
- ICE cars, especially with obnoxious exhausts, beg to be revved out, which generally means speeding and aggressive driving.
- Overall ICE cars may make terrible drivers, while EVs make polite and law abiding drivers. I know it made a difference in my driving style for sure.
- Fart cannon pilots also create obnoxious atmosphere for everyone around them, while EV is whisper quiet and does not disturb/stress anyone around them. This ultimately may mean less road rage, accidents, etc.


I may add more as I think this further, this is just my initial thoughts after owning EV and ICE at the same time.
Images
  • diesel.jpg
  • E3.png
  • 143126-004-23B19F78.jpg
  • 56373efc7c5ec.jpg
  • clean-polluted-planets-vector-illustration-concept-ecological-planet-against-pollution-environmental-94378902.jpg
Last edited by Andro on Jul 11th, 2018 8:34 pm, edited 33 times in total.
164 replies
Deal Expert
User avatar
Oct 13, 2009
19257 posts
7507 upvotes
Iqaluit, NU
Andro wrote:
Jul 11th, 2018 12:50 pm

4. Obnoxious exhaust/engine sound
- some may like this part and shoot of their fart cannons, but most members of the society *over the age of 18* do not appreciate these goofs. No one wants to hear your machine gun going off.
- In addition, it is very easy to tell when someone is gunning it in ICE, where EV is whisper quite even when pedal to the floor


don't h8 on my sick modz
deleted to keep the site family friendly. Was about copping sick fadez.
Well there's no sick fadez left to be copped now that the regimen cannot be admired in all its glory
RIP sick fadez.
Jr. Member
Mar 3, 2012
146 posts
76 upvotes
Montreal, QC
I own an Tesla S and I love this car so much. I love taking the car on road trip and use their free supercharger. I can charge the car overnight when i'm at the hotel.

When I know the gas price is going to go up, now I laugh at all those ICE car lining up at gas station to fill up before the price going to increase.

Sometime I see those punk in their ICE car rev up their engine at red light and I accept their challenge just to show them EV car are better and faster then their car.
Deal Addict
User avatar
Jan 8, 2009
1802 posts
719 upvotes
Ontario
nasa25 wrote:
Jul 11th, 2018 12:54 pm
don't h8 on my sick modz
In my early 20s I had a car with a modified straight through exhaust. People came up to me and complained about the noise and I remember thinking to myself "what's their problem?". I would like to think I have matured a bit since then and now consider other people as well as myself.
"Never wrestle with a pig. You'll both get dirty, and the pig likes it"
[OP]
Deal Fanatic
User avatar
Jan 8, 2006
9172 posts
2549 upvotes
Toronto, Ontario
Martin (deal addict) wrote:
Jul 11th, 2018 1:30 pm
In my early 20s I had a car with a modified straight through exhaust. People came up to me and complained about the noise and I remember thinking to myself "what's their problem?". I would like to think I have matured a bit since then and now consider other people as well as myself.
I did not have a straight exhaust, but I did have a fart cannon muffler when I was younger. Seemed cool at that time, but I was in my teens and matured since then)
Deal Expert
User avatar
Oct 26, 2003
28839 posts
2092 upvotes
Winnipeg
another tesla thread? although a bit roundabout matter.
[OP]
Deal Fanatic
User avatar
Jan 8, 2006
9172 posts
2549 upvotes
Toronto, Ontario
divx wrote:
Jul 11th, 2018 1:43 pm
another tesla thread? although a bit roundabout matter.
I did not have a Tesla in mind, rather all EVs combined. However, I do thank Tesla, in particular Musk, for starting back up the trend on pure EVs.
vkizzle wrote:
Jul 11th, 2018 1:42 pm
Exactly my points from #1,4,7. The most interesting thing is what goes in the mind of those diesel truck drivers when they are doing that. I suspect that its nothing, but that is not surprising at all. The funny part is that Prius is not pure EV and kinda relates more to gas/diesel cars than to pure EVs.

Thanks for the video)
Deal Expert
User avatar
Apr 21, 2004
45179 posts
11688 upvotes
I concur with @andro , my 02 Civic ICEV is garbage but it works, is not a gas guzzler and is almost maintenance-free like a BEV!
Newbie
May 24, 2008
98 posts
38 upvotes
Mississauga
No Doubt EV is the future (for most people) but below is the reason keeping me from it (at this moment).

1) Manual (yes I am those old die hard fan who cannot live without manual, not saying it is better/faster than auto, I just can't live without it)
2) My track days would really have to cut short every time with current EV technology
3) Currently, you will have to go to a high price range for a EV that is consider more performance wise
4) Aftermarket support for most EV still tiny and expensive
5) Again, manual!!!!!
Deal Addict
Aug 3, 2008
1751 posts
1132 upvotes
Canada
Another convenience point:
Preconditioning temperature without use of the engine. Means I can do it at home in a closed garage without the risk of carbon monoxide poisoning. Can also schedule to precondition it to a known departure time. Very handy in winter and hot summer days.
Deal Addict
User avatar
Sep 9, 2012
2639 posts
1595 upvotes
Oakville, ON
EV = plug in to recharge. Done. Some minor variances with plug standards for the fancy level of charging, but really pretty straight-forward.

ICE = Ay Carrumba!

Regular, Mid-Grade, or Super? 87/89/91/93 Octane? Ethanol or not? E0/E/5/E10/E85? Premium Required or Premium Reccomended? Top Tier station or any old station?

All diesel nozzles fit in diesel trucks, and some cars, but some passenger vehicles need a smaller diesel nozzle that not all stations offer! And Good luck to you if you mix diesel & gas!

And any water in the station tanks or the vehicle will freeze or gel in the extreme cold in winter and you may not be able to start your vehicle and drive! An EV will lose range in the extreme cold, but the electricity still flows freely so you drive away regardless of temperature.
[OP]
Deal Fanatic
User avatar
Jan 8, 2006
9172 posts
2549 upvotes
Toronto, Ontario
seafish wrote:
Jul 11th, 2018 2:18 pm
Another convenience point:
Preconditioning temperature without use of the engine. Means I can do it at home in a closed garage without the risk of carbon monoxide poisoning. Can also schedule to precondition it to a known departure time. Very handy in winter and hot summer days.
Thanks, added
Deal Addict
User avatar
Jul 30, 2010
1693 posts
231 upvotes
I don't get why people keep feeding the bullshit about ICE maintenance. I bought my brand new Grand Vitara, had it for 6 years so far, and have done nothing but change the engine oil, diff & transfer case oils, and front brake pads once.

It currently has 125,000 kms, and the rear brakes will soon need to be done.

Synthetic oil ($22) + Fram Ultra filter ($9) = $31 of engine oil maintenance every 10,000 kms.

Gear oil, 1L per case (2 diffs plus transfer case) @ $5 per litre = $15 so far.

Front brake pads were $45 (Bosch).

Maintenance is very minor for any vehicle under 10 years and 200,000 kms. When you get older and higher kms, the game changes. But we don't know what the current stock of EVs will do when they hit that age as well.

I personally have more faith in the regular car manufacturer's EVs rather than Tesla. Even if Tesla survives for another 10-20 years, if they don't open up the right to repair then those repairs could very well be as costly or more than changing the transmission on an ICE.

Therefore, to me, the only costs to compare should be the fuel cost (gas vs. electricity) and initial purchase cost. Maintenance on a <10 year old ICE is quite minimal, and apparently also for an EV. What kind of maintenance is required on EVs at the 10 year/200,000 km mark? That's a very important question and will impact exactly 100% of whether I ever decide to get an EV.

Edit: As I've said in other posts, EVs still use a ton of parts that ICEs use. I've never had an engine failure. I'e had to swap a transmission once; cost me $1100. I've changed CV Axles, Struts, ball joints, etc. EVs have those just as ICEs do, so that maintenance will be the same.

It will cost way more to repair in a Tesla than a traditional EV due to the parts availability (OEM only for Tesla), so the other EVs will win that one. So that leaves engine, transmission and exhaust maintenance. Catalytic converter is a big one, as well as O2 sensors. Spark plugs are cheap and not changed very often.

Only time will tell the real maintenance cost of EVs when they get to their old age. That is if EV owners would ever be honest about them, since the koolaid is running very thick these days and I don't expect honesty in the current climate.

Has anyone owned an EV that is 10+ years old? When will the first batch of EVs (in Canada) hit the 10 year / 200,000 kms milestone?
Last edited by LeisureSuitL on Jul 11th, 2018 3:07 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Top