Cell Phones

Why are you NOT using Apple/android Pay?

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Nov 28, 2013
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jcon wrote: The arguments against Apple Pay sound eerily similar to those arguments against bank cards (versus cheques).
They do? I don't recall anybody ever saying "cheques are just as fast as bank cards" or "Why carry a bank card, I'm still going to have to carry my wallet and checkbook around".
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Sep 3, 2006
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wearysky wrote: They do? I don't recall anybody ever saying "cheques are just as fast as bank cards" or "Why carry a bank card, I'm still going to have to carry my wallet and checkbook around".
Huh? People are saying, "why carry a cellphone, I'm still going to have to carry my wallet and credit card around?" Where?

No, I'm seeing people say they're worried about security. Same complaint when Interact came out. "Someone is going to steal my card and without a signature, how will they know it's me?"

Now, "Someone is going to steal the info from my phone and copy my fingerprint."

It's the same argument.

"Now I have to carry around my bank card and my chequebook for those places where a bank card won't work"

Now, "I'm going to have to carry my phone and my credit card for those places where my phone won't work"

And, yes, people often complained that the Interact was slow and those who were accustomed to writing cheques, were quicker.
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Jan 1, 2013
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First reason is I don't want to explain to the cashier/waiter/employee that I want to pay with a phone, I'm sure I'll have to explain it and it's just not worth my time.

Second reason is:
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I'm guessing I can sideload it, but I haven't even looked into it, I'm just assuming my credit card doesn't support it.

EDIT: This thread got me curious. So I search about Samsung Pay coming to Canada and I found this: http://www.gsmarena.com/samsung_pay_com ... -21320.php
Lucky for me, I have an S7 and a CIBC Visa is the card I use the most! What the hell, I'll give it a shot.
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jcon wrote: Huh? People are saying, "why carry a cellphone, I'm still going to have to carry my wallet and credit card around?" Where?
No, people are saying they use Android/Apple Pay because it means they don't have to carry around their cards any more. Which is a silly reason, as I've stated a couple times in the thread already - there's still a large number of places that don't accept tap, and tap still fails X% of the time. At least if tap fails when I'm using my credit card, I've got my card out already to do chip/pin. The uncertainty of tap working means that X% of the time (and X is not a particularly small number), using Android/Apple Pay would be much less convenient.
jcon wrote: No, I'm seeing people say they're worried about security. Same complaint when Interact came out. "Someone is going to steal my card and without a signature, how will they know it's me?"
I actually don't have any security concerns about it - my conversation regarding security was just pointing out that in theory, it *is* possible to bypass it, but I'm well aware that it's not a particularly big threat (see also: data mining. I really can't get all worked up about it).
jcon wrote: "Now I have to carry around my bank card and my chequebook for those places where a bank card won't work"

Now, "I'm going to have to carry my phone and my credit card for those places where my phone won't work"
I feel like most people would have just carried around cash back in the days when debit was as flaky as tap is now. Maybe it's just where I grew up, but I feel like paying by cheque at a store was already pretty much completely out of fashion by the time debit terminals started showing up in stores (to the point where it was a bit of a comedic stereotype - the old woman at the grocery store paying for a $12 grocery bill with a cheque). But that aside, my point is that even if I completely adopted usage of Apple/Android pay, I'd still have to carry around my wallet for ID/health card/whatever, so the "you get to leave your cards at home" benefit of it is completely lost on me (well, other than the sweet 20 gram weight savings in my wallet).

For me, Apple/Android Pay amounts to a neat feature that doesn't really add any benefit right now. One day, maybe, but I'm waiting for the days where I can have all my stuff conveniently stored in an implantable microchip in my wrist. :)
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Aug 10, 2007
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Bisons wrote: First reason is I don't want to explain to the cashier/waiter/employee that I want to pay with a phone, I'm sure I'll have to explain it and it's just not worth my time.
You don't really do that. Just say "debit" or "credit" or "mastercard" or "visa" or "amex" like you normally would.
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Sep 3, 2006
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wearysky wrote: No, people are saying they use Android/Apple Pay because it means they don't have to carry around their cards any more. Which is a silly reason, as I've stated a couple times in the thread already - there's still a large number of places that don't accept tap, and tap still fails X% of the time. At least if tap fails when I'm using my credit card, I've got my card out already to do chip/pin. The uncertainty of tap working means that X% of the time (and X is not a particularly small number), using Android/Apple Pay would be much less convenient.


I actually don't have any security concerns about it - my conversation regarding security was just pointing out that in theory, it *is* possible to bypass it, but I'm well aware that it's not a particularly big threat (see also: data mining. I really can't get all worked up about it).


I feel like most people would have just carried around cash back in the days when debit was as flaky as tap is now. Maybe it's just where I grew up, but I feel like paying by cheque at a store was already pretty much completely out of fashion by the time debit terminals started showing up in stores (to the point where it was a bit of a comedic stereotype - the old woman at the grocery store paying for a $12 grocery bill with a cheque). But that aside, my point is that even if I completely adopted usage of Apple/Android pay, I'd still have to carry around my wallet for ID/health card/whatever, so the "you get to leave your cards at home" benefit of it is completely lost on me (well, other than the sweet 20 gram weight savings in my wallet).

For me, Apple/Android Pay amounts to a neat feature that doesn't really add any benefit right now. One day, maybe, but I'm waiting for the days where I can have all my stuff conveniently stored in an implantable microchip in my wrist. :)
RE: Carrying multiple cards. I may carry one card around, just in case, but I won't carry all of them. That will reduce my wallet size.

RE: Security. You're not the only person speaking in this thread and others have mentioned security.

RE: Cash. Well, having worked cashier for some time, back-in-the-day, yes, cash was popular but so were cheques. People thought they were quicker than a credit card because they were fast at writing cheques and were always ready. They never were but they thought it.

RE: Neat feature. It offers time savings, convenience and security. Otherwise, yes, there is no benefit. And I'm sure that banks will be allowed in the future to just access the chips that the government has already implanted in us.
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Aug 14, 2007
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I still laugh at the idiots saying that it is not secure. If someone smashes your car window out and steals your credit cards / wallet, they can tap and tap all they want. If they steal your phone, how are they going to replicate your fingerprint (hint: they can't)

Besides, even if something WERE to happen like your phone being stolen, your actual credit card number isn't in the phone, the phone uses it's own version of your credit card number and it changes each time. Something like that does happen I'm not sure exactly what it is.

I use it all the time with my Tangerine CC.

What is funny is that once you start using apple pay (or android) is when you realize how many people DON'T have tap enables machines.
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Jan 27, 2006
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My only complaint isn't really stores not accepting Apple Pay but I wish banks and credit card companies ELIMINATE THE $100 LIMIT. I don't get it you need my fingerprint to complete the transaction I can understand with PayPass/Tap since no PIN is required .
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XtremeModder wrote: I still laugh at the idiots saying that it is not secure. If someone smashes your car window out and steals your credit cards / wallet, they can tap and tap all they want. If they steal your phone, how are they going to replicate your fingerprint (hint: they can't)

Besides, even if something WERE to happen like your phone being stolen, your actual credit card number isn't in the phone, the phone uses it's own version of your credit card number and it changes each time. Something like that does happen I'm not sure exactly what it is.

I use it all the time with my Tangerine CC.

What is funny is that once you start using apple pay (or android) is when you realize how many people DON'T have tap enables machines.
Actually, that is not correct. The Apple Pay credit card number doesn't actually change. For each credit card you enter, it always stays the same as long as it remains loaded on the phone.

However, what makes it secure is that it is a credit card number that isn't the original one on your physical card, and that Apple Pay credit card number cannot be used for regular online purchases like a regular card number. Those Apple Pay credit card numbers can only be used for Apple Pay. And to use it with Apple Pay you need the fingerprint. When you authenticate with your fingerprint, that provides a one-time use authorization number unique to each transaction. So, yes, something changes with every transaction, but it's not the Apple Pay credit card number, it's the authorization number that changes.

BTW, that authorization number cannot be replicated by a crook. It is created with a unique key for each device that is provided by the bank and transmitted encrypted in the phone, and is stored in the Secure Enclave vault on the phone, which is completely inaccessible by the OS directly. This is also where your TouchID fingerprint info is stored.

Interestingly, this Secure Enclave doesn't even run iOS. It runs a different OS that is bare bones and with encrypted memory, and thus is essentially immune to hacking. It's like a little vault-like device that is embedded inside the phone but separate.
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Aug 14, 2007
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EugW wrote:
XtremeModder wrote: I still laugh at the idiots saying that it is not secure. If someone smashes your car window out and steals your credit cards / wallet, they can tap and tap all they want. If they steal your phone, how are they going to replicate your fingerprint (hint: they can't)

Besides, even if something WERE to happen like your phone being stolen, your actual credit card number isn't in the phone, the phone uses it's own version of your credit card number and it changes each time. Something like that does happen I'm not sure exactly what it is.

I use it all the time with my Tangerine CC.

What is funny is that once you start using apple pay (or android) is when you realize how many people DON'T have tap enables machines.
Actually, that is not correct. The Apple Pay credit card number doesn't actually change. For each credit card you enter, it always stays the same as long as it remains loaded on the phone.

However, what makes it secure is that it is a credit card number that isn't the original one on your physical card, and that Apple Pay credit card number cannot be used for regular online purchases like a regular card number. Those Apple Pay credit card numbers can only be used for Apple Pay. And to use it with Apple Pay you need the fingerprint. When you authenticate with your fingerprint, that provides a one-time use authorization number unique to each transaction. So, yes, something changes with every transaction, but it's not the Apple Pay credit card number, it's the authorization number that changes.

BTW, that authorization number cannot be replicated by a crook. It is created with a unique key for each device that is provided by the bank and transmitted encrypted in the phone, and is stored in the Secure Enclave vault on the phone, which is completely inaccessible by the OS directly. This is also where your TouchID fingerprint info is stored.

Interestingly, this Secure Enclave doesn't even run iOS. It runs a different OS that is bare bones and with encrypted memory, and thus is essentially immune to hacking. It's like a little vault-like device that is embedded inside the phone but separate.
Yea I knew I was wrong I just couldn't remember how it actually worked. But for people to think it's less secure than someone stealing your wallet and tapping $100 or less purchases is beyond me.

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