Will you buy a bailout car?

[Galois]

Just curious if others plan to avoid GM and Chrysler products post bankruptcy?

Maybe I am a bit stubborn but I have to confess this entire bailout arrangement does not sit at all well with me. The more details that come out the more sick it makes me.

I have a real problem with seeing $2B in taxpayer funds used to provide lucrative CAW pensions where neither the workers or employer actually contributed to the plan while 3 quarters of taxpayers in Ontario don't actually even have one.

I can't fathom that we are running the largest deficit in Canadian history and one fifth of that will be used to save just one company - A company that will be controlled largely by the US government and the UAW with few commitments beyond drastically reducing its capacity here.

I don't see how this misguided "investment" of taxpayer resources ends well. GM announced today as part of their restructuring deal they will forgo a planned plant in China in favor of reopening a US plant - exactly the kind of management decisions you can expect from a company run by a government and union. If they had simply allowed GM to collapse and the viable assets be put into the hands of competent private investment I would have given them a chance, this course the Canadian government has been duped into though is only certain to cost the taxpayers a fortune (just watch how much subsidies grow on the Volt) - and inevitably fail.

Bottom line I guess, they can, and will do what they want, but I am not playing ball, you won't see one in my driveway.

[gilboman]

i'm not stupid, so why would i base a decision on a car purchase on whether the auto company got gov't assistance or not?

all automakers got/get assisstance (even Toyota/Honda got huge amoutn of $$ to locate here). a car purchase should be based on $$/value/performance/safety/etc..stuff that is actually relevent to the vehicle and ownership experience. not whether the company got govt assistance

[sbobcat]

Oh! Yeah! G8 camaro CTS and Volt, just to name a few.

[sixer]

Absolutely, better deals and lots of nice cars

[Galois]

There is a huge difference between the prudent investments that the government made in attracting Honda and Toyota here and the misguided bailouts they have been duped into for GM and Chrysler. They don't belong in the same conversation.

I suspect your right though, the up front price will likely be the deciding factor for most. Just remember to think about all the money you saved when you do your taxes as they return to the levels we had the last time we ran deficits like this in the early 90's.

[KorruptioN]

Likely not. There's just nothing that appeals to me... and it's not just because "they're American". Technical specifications, styling, the list goes on. I think I can say that I'm making an informed decision on the matter.

... in before help_questions and more of his rhetoric.

[urameatball]

I walked into a Chevrolet dealer a while ago, there was actually a NOTICEABLE layer of dust on all the showroom cars, I LOL'd.

Walk into any Japanese (or maybe even Korean) dealership and all you see are newly detailed cars in the morning, and newly detailed cars with fingerprints all over them before closing.

[RMachucaA]

I went to a pontiac dealership recently here in montreal to see how much they would budge for a base G8.

Answer: they wont.

The guy refused to do any barganing whatsover, zero, nothing. If i had been really impressed i would have pulled the trigger on it, but unfortunately the salesman smelt like stale bread with mothballs, looked like he had just woken up and put on his 80's leisure suit, refused to bargain even 100$ and was just plain dis-interested in my money (too bad for them).

This was at parkway plaza off the 40 near the 13.

Afterwards, we went to a subaru dealer... they had a crack team of salesmen, i swear they made the feeling of getting ripped off for a new car a pleasurable one, all dressed to the 9's, smelt good, and we're very interested in helping us out AND where KNOWLEDGEABLE. The salesman at pontiac KNEW NOTHING about the G8, i had to correct him on a few specs.

Just because of that, we're 80% sure our next car this summer is a subie. Unless they start clearing out g8's at +-22k$ out the door, i wont even entertain the idea.

[gilboman]

There is a huge difference between the prudent investments that the government made in attracting Honda and Toyota here and the misguided bailouts they have been duped into for GM and Chrysler. They don't belong in the same conversation.

I suspect your right though, the up front price will likely be the deciding factor for most. Just remember to think about all the money you saved when you do your taxes as they return to the levels we had the last time we ran deficits like this in the early 90's.

investments however u put it, is just money. money to GM/Chrysler or money to Honda/Toyota. Money's money. without bailing out GM, even honda/toyota would be in serious trouble since scores of parts makers will go out of business.

and the bailouts are chump change to the deficit anyways. the small amount of $$ the cdn govt is using to bail out the automakers is not even a drop in the bucket in the big picture.

[VivienM]

Afterwards, we went to a subaru dealer... they had a crack team of salesmen, i swear they made the feeling of getting ripped off for a new car a pleasurable one, all dressed to the 9's, smelt good, and we're very interested in helping us out AND where KNOWLEDGEABLE. The salesman at pontiac KNEW NOTHING about the G8, i had to correct him on a few specs.

Obviously the Subaru dealers in Montreal are better than the ones here.

I signed up for something @ the auto show. Got an email following up from a Subaru sales guy.

I don't think I have ever seen something with more typos and grammar mistakes in my life. Honestly, if I was his manager, he'd be fired on the spot. Horribly unprofessional.

[VivienM]

There is a huge difference between the prudent investments that the government made in attracting Honda and Toyota here and the misguided bailouts they have been duped into for GM and Chrysler. They don't belong in the same conversation.

Right, because you like Honda and Toyota, and you hate GM/Chrysler.

That's what it comes down to, isn't it?

My view: the US government screwed its own auto industry for decades (subsidies for Toyota/Honda plants, a private health care system that penalizes older companies with retirees, regulatory regimes like CAFE that favour automakers without a full product line, etc.). But apparently it's ONLY when GM/Chrysler are actually bankrupt that they seem willing to vaguely revert course... and if the Canadian government doesn't follow, then byebye auto industry in southern Ontario. Whooops.

Not that the bailout will fix much. Anybody who thinks GM/Chrysler are in trouble because they don't make "small fuel efficient cars" is an idiot. (Yes, that includes many higher-ups in the current US administration who think the world would be better if we were just a bit more like Europeans.) So if the bailed out automakers get directed to produce "small fuel efficient cars", they'll be bankrupt again in 10 years.

For the record, the bailout hasn't changed my position. I'll consider GM/Chrysler again as soon as they have reasonable leasing offers, because in my mind THAT speaks to the management's confidence in their products. I'm not saying that you necessarily have to lease (leasing is the wrong choice for many people), but I think the availability of leasing offers should always be considered. Why? Because, if they SELL you a car, and it's crap, it's YOUR problem and your money. If you LEASE a car, and it's crap, in 4 years, it becomes THEIR problem again... and if nobody wants to buy it at what they thought it would be worth, too bad. Not your money (directly).

[alex_d10]

Every car in my family has been an import over the past 10 years.

And I would absolutely buy a G8 if I was shopping for a car right now. The problem is that the G8 is not even really a Pontiac.

[RMachucaA]

Every car in my family has been an import over the past 10 years.

And I would absolutely buy a G8 if I was shopping for a car right now. The problem is that the G8 is not even really a Pontiac.

Im sure you meant to say "there is no problem with the pontiac G8, its not a pontiac" :P.

Holdens are awesome cars.

[gman]

Just remember to think about all the money you saved when you do your taxes as they return to the levels we had the last time we ran deficits like this in the early 90's.

If that is the reason, you should buy 'bailout' car. Since your money (tax money) is already 'invested' to it and you more or less have no say to stop it, don't you want them to earn money so that you won't need to give them more money later?

[Engi-Nir]

I am very%2