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Wonder why you got banned in stores? The Retail Equation

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krs wrote: Just for interest - has anyone reading this thread ever been refused a return at a Canadian retailer?
Not me, personally, not yet...but this amateur tracking company's methods concern me if they start being used more.

I've probably eaten way more in garbage purchases that I didn't bother to get refunds/exchanges on because they were either a hassle, too inexpensive to bother, or I threw away the receipts prematurely because I intended to keep/use them and naively expected them to last longer than they did. I mean things I need, like a third-party phone charger from a Fido kiosk that dies within a month after purchase. I just ended up borrowing my BF's extra charger until I bought a new phone anyway.
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krs wrote: Just for interest - has anyone reading this thread ever been refused a return at a Canadian retailer?
Haven't been refused ever. Yes, even at Best Buy and Crappy Tire.

As for KRS's comment re lying sales staff at BB, hey, at that store if the item doesn't work as promised of course you can bring it back (and tell the returns staffer exactly that reason). BB isn't a "final sale" store.

I sense a lot of overreaction here. If this was about stores messing up your credit rating when you did no wrong, you'd have every reason to be concerned. This is about stores protecting themselves from a certain segment of shoppers, which I would assume do not include you. You are free to choose who you will do business with, based on criteria of your choosing... so are the retailers. Banks won't loan to people with bad credit who are more likely to default. Stores won't give refunds to people who seek to rent product for free. Eaton's died because people did exactly that, taking advantage of Timothy Eaton's "Goods Satisfactory or Money Refunded" policy... if they had TRE on their side back then, maybe they'd still be around?
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Is it too much to ask for clear signage so that shoppers can choose to not enter into a contract with any retailer who uses The Retail Equation?

I don't care if individual retailers track customer ID for their own internal operations, according to their mandatorily stated return policies.
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peanutz wrote: Is it too much to ask for clear signage so that shoppers can choose to not enter into a contract with any retailer who uses The Retail Equation?

I don't care if individual retailers track customer ID for their own internal operations, according to their mandatorily stated return policies.
Again you're paranoid. According to TRE themselves, only ONE PERCENT of customers are declined their returns. ONE PERCENT. So you had better be a "one percenter" scammer... and that isn't a 1% club to be proud to be a member of! (I would hope...)

https://www.theretailequation.com/Consumers/FAQ

Just like everywhere else in life, behave yourself and nothing bad should happen to you. It's always the shit disturbers who grumble the most when they get what they deserve.
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EastGTARedFlagger wrote: Again you're paranoid. According to TRE themselves, only ONE PERCENT of customers are declined their returns. ONE PERCENT. So you had better be a "one percenter" scammer... and that isn't a 1% club to be proud to be a member of! (I would hope...)

https://www.theretailequation.com/Consumers/FAQ

Just like everywhere else in life, behave yourself and nothing bad should happen to you. It's always the shit disturbers who grumble the most when they get what they deserve.
Are you calling me a shit disturber? With minimal returns that have never been denied?

I just do not want to buy something from a retailer who would make it a requirement to hand over my government ID to a company I do not like in order to get a legitimate return.

What do you think I *deserve*? For wanting clear options on transparency and knowing/choosing who gets my ID?
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EastGTARedFlagger wrote: Haven't been refused ever. Yes, even at Best Buy and Crappy Tire.

As for KRS's comment re lying sales staff at BB, hey, at that store if the item doesn't work as promised of course you can bring it back (and tell the returns staffer exactly that reason). BB isn't a "final sale" store.

I sense a lot of overreaction here. If this was about stores messing up your credit rating when you did no wrong, you'd have every reason to be concerned. This is about stores protecting themselves from a certain segment of shoppers, which I would assume do not include you. You are free to choose who you will do business with, based on criteria of your choosing... so are the retailers. Banks won't loan to people with bad credit who are more likely to default. Stores won't give refunds to people who seek to rent product for free. Eaton's died because people did exactly that, taking advantage of Timothy Eaton's "Goods Satisfactory or Money Refunded" policy... if they had TRE on their side back then, maybe they'd still be around?
I guess you didn't read the comments on yelp.com that were posted earlier - or don't believe waht people posted.
There are pages and pages of people claiming they were refused returns after only a single return in a year.

Come to think of it - I was refusec a return at Canadian Tire a few years ago on an electric pressure washer.
Not only did the thing leak water all over but it didn't come even remotely close to provide the pressure advertised.

After some arguing they eventually took it back but I later noticed a sign on those units that said "No Returns"

Since then I have seen other people trying to return them - don't know how they fared.

But one would think if there are too many returns of a specific item because it doesn't work as advertised, the store would stop carrying it
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krs wrote: I guess you didn't read the comments on yelp.com that were posted earlier - or don't believe waht people posted.
There are pages and pages of people claiming they were refused returns after only a single return in a year.

Come to think of it - I was refusec a return at Canadian Tire a few years ago on an electric pressure washer.
Not only did the thing leak water all over but it didn't come even remotely close to provide the pressure advertised.

After some arguing they eventually took it back but I later noticed a sign on those units that said "No Returns"

Since then I have seen other people trying to return them - don't know how they fared.

But one would think if there are too many returns of a specific item because it doesn't work as advertised, the store would stop carrying it
The indications point to The Retail Equation as being a company that makes money by collecting consumers' IDs.

Then acting as a go-between for customers and the retailers they've dealt with...the disconnect that multiple users complain about seem to refer to a vagueness in the process. If there was nothing to hide, there shouldn't be so much mystery as to what is allowed or what counts as strikes.
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krs wrote: Come to think of it - I was refused a return at Canadian Tire a few years ago on an electric pressure washer.
Not only did the thing leak water all over but it didn't come even remotely close to provide the pressure advertised.

After some arguing they eventually took it back but I later noticed a sign on those units that said "No Returns"

Since then I have seen other people trying to return them - don't know how they fared.

But one would think if there are too many returns of a specific item because it doesn't work as advertised, the store would stop carrying it
This situation has everything to do with Crappy Tire knowingly selling crappy products and as usual, refusing to stand behind them. This has been their MO for awhile, long before TRE started (that's the reason I refuse to call them "Canadian". They're either "Crappy" or "Chinese", which mean the same thing...)

I see TRE as similar to the credit reporting agencies -- a mechanism by which businesses can legally collude against you. That I'm not a fan of at all. I don't think it's right that Best Buy should decline you because of a return you made at Home Depot last year. But if you return most of your Best Buy purchases, of course Best Buy should show you the door.

Any way to foil the renters and fraudsters, I must fully support. So I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place. To be against TRE means you support scammers.
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EastGTARedFlagger wrote: I see TRE as similar to the credit reporting agencies -- a mechanism by which businesses can legally collude against you. That I'm not a fan of at all.
Yes, I agree with this. But it goes beyond being worried about denied returns, etc. When I buy from whatever retailer, I generally want my relationship to be me <--> retailer.
EastGTARedFlagger wrote: I don't think it's right that Best Buy should decline you because of a return you made at Home Depot last year.
I believe TRE claims they don't do that. They only track activity within retailers.
EastGTARedFlagger wrote: However, any way to foil the renters and fraudsters, I must fully support. So I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place.
Same...so this is why I support internal tracking within retailers. BUT I suspect the reason they don't is because they like having TRE in the middle denying returns...so the retailers can say it's not their fault, when they have hired TRE to be the blockers.

Other than that, of course deny the frauds, they do cumulatively make it a pain in the butt for honest customers to enjoy good, generous policies.
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peanutz wrote: I believe TRE claims they don't do that. They only track activity within retailers.
Yes - they do claim they only track activity within retailers - which make one wonder - waht is the added value they bring to the table compared to a retailer doing that themselves?
I'm sure TRE charges for their service - and I also don't think it's too much of a stretch to think that TRE maybe actually collecting private information and this "fraud prevention" is just a front.

Same with that 1% figure, TRE can claim anything.

BTW - I mentioned Best Buy earlier since Best Buy, Home Depot and JC Penny seem to be the chains that people in the US claimed most about.
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Before going further, read TRE's FAQ here:
https://www.theretailequation.com/Consumers/FAQ

I'll paste below parts which answer some of your questions. No I don't work for them (or any retail for that matter):

The approximate 1 percent of consumers who get denied exhibit return behaviors that mimic fraud or abuse or exhibit habits that are inconsistent with the retailer’s return policy.
The refusal of a return does not mean a consumer’s return is fraudulent or abusive, only that the return history is often associated with such behavior.
Price matching, the practice of changing price for a consumer to match a competitor’s price (online or brick-and-mortar) or even the retailer’s own online pricing, is typically not viewed as a return transaction. However, retailers do have the option to incorporate price matching transactions into their statistical models and some older point-of-sale systems may not have the ability to differentiate between price match transactions and return/exchange transactions.
Rather than forcing retailers to impose stricter return policies such as “no receipt, no return” or 14-day limits on returns, the system actually allows retailers to offer the other 99 percent of consumers more lenient and flexible return policies.
Retailers that use the Verify service post signs to inform consumers of their use of the Verify technology.
To reduce the likelihood of being warned or denied on a return, consumers should consider the factors listed in the question above and reduce their frequency of returns, reduce their return dollar amounts, return within the store’s return time limits, and retain their original sales transaction receipts.
The Retail Equation cannot disclose client names due to contractual agreements.


I can't remember the last time I had to show government ID to make a return (at any of Home Depot, Walmart, Crappy Tire, etc), so maybe this is a USA thing? Their only requirement was (since I usually pay credit or debit) to present the same card that was used to make the purchase. That isn't government issued but has my name on it somehow.

TRE does appear to require retailers to post signage that they use the system. I've never seen such a sign then again I've never looked for it.

I didn't find it on BestBuy.CA but I did find this on BestBuy.COM -- it doesn't say who they use but we all know:

Like many retailers, we use a third party to help prevent losses by detecting improper returns, and, except where prohibited, require a valid ID for all store returns that lack proof of purchase. Reimbursements on returns lacking proof of purchase may be denied or limited and state sales tax and fees will not be reimbursed. We accept U.S., Canadian, and Mexican Driver's Licenses; U.S. State ID; Canadian Province ID; Matricula Consular; U.S. Military ID; Passport; U.S. Laser Visa; and U.S. Permanent Resident Card. Our third-party processor may record your ID information when you return an item, and keep it in a secure database to help us validate future returns. If we caution you or deny your return, you may request a copy of your Return Activity Report by calling 1-800-652-2331.
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krs wrote: Yes - they do claim they only track activity within retailers - which make one wonder - waht is the added value they bring to the table compared to a retailer doing that themselves?
I'm sure TRE charges for their service - and I also don't think it's too much of a stretch to think that TRE maybe actually collecting private information and this "fraud prevention" is just a front.

Same with that 1% figure, TRE can claim anything.

BTW - I mentioned Best Buy earlier since Best Buy, Home Depot and JC Penny seem to be the chains that people in the US claimed most about.
I'm certain they track multiple retailers. In the FAQ they claim not to tell retailer B what you did over at retailer A.. but will tell retailer B to decline your return. So not quite the same as a credit report (where bank A can look up your balances and credit limits at banks B through Z), but the result is the same. You screw retailer A, you will find yourself shut down when you try the same at B.

Worth a look: http://www.elliott.org/case-dismissed-2 ... returners/
Use too many coupons and then return too many things... expect to be blocked. In other words, TRE has got RFD's number....

Best Buy we already know about:
https://www.wcpo.com/money/consumer/don ... re-returns
Last edited by EastGTARedFlagger on Feb 17th, 2018 10:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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You should have bolded this:
Rather than forcing retailers to impose stricter return policies such as “no receipt, no return” or 14-day limits on returns, the system actually allows retailers to offer the other 99 percent of consumers more lenient and flexible return policies.
Contrary to what TRE claims - what we are seeing are tighter return policies not more lenient and flexible policies.

And that 1% number they quote as consumers being denied returns, which includes fraudulent and abuse returns as a subset, ie that number is less than 1% is way off base with both the Canadian white paper that was published in2014 and the document published by the TRE themselves in 2015 showing the fraudulent and abuse returns at 6.0% (for Canada) and 6.1% respectively.
Seems the right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing.

https://nrf.com/sites/default/files/Ima ... inal_0.pdf
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EastGTARedFlagger wrote: Worth a look: http://www.elliott.org/case-dismissed-2 ... returners/
Use too many coupons and then return too many things... expect to be blocked. In other words, TRE has got RFD's number....
Boy - all this is a big eye opener.

At least the return policy of this retailer states that the return may be denied:
Our return policies are posted in stores at the point of sale. These are also available online or as requested by our customers. In our return policy, similar to other major retailers, we reserve the right to decline to accept a return even if accompanied by a receipt if it does not pass our third-party verification.
I better start looking at return policies of retailers I deal with a bit more closely.
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From the elliott.org link @EastGTARedFlagger posted:
fred cosentino • 4 months ago

In California it is illegal for a merchant to scan a customer's driver's license, or even to record the DL#. All a merchant can do is request to see ID to verify customer's identity.
Why do people on the internet make stuff up? This is blatantly untrue--California retailers are allowed to, and have scanned my Ontario driver's license (e.g. when I was buying pseudoephedrine for really bad allergies-induced runny nose.)

http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces ... awCode=CIV
(a) (1) A business may swipe a driver’s license or identification card issued by the Department of Motor Vehicles in any electronic device for the following purposes:
:facepalm:
Last edited by Guest439488 on Feb 18th, 2018 12:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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krs wrote: Contrary to what TRE claims - what we are seeing are tighter return policies not more lenient and flexible policies.
Remember Eaton's? Timothy himself promised "Goods Satisfactory or Money Refunded". That policy may have been great in the late 1800's and early 1900's when people and businesses were generally honest. But fast forward to the 80's and 90's with greedy, scummy customer behavior (RFD might brag about that being "savvy" but let's call it what it is...) and it proved to be the company's downfall. "Renters"/"Wardrobers" put them out of business.

Can you blame today's retailers for not being so lenient like Eaton's? TRE serves to prevent more retailers from going the way of Eatons. I know it irks some people on this board but retailers aren't there for you to get free rentals of product. They are businesses not charities. Don't want to pay, don't buy. Simple.

We do have so many more tools at our disposal to avoid bad purchases vs when Tim E. was alive, like online reviews, Consumer Reports, that kind of thing. So that should mean less things to return.
If Costco ever used TRE they'll have to start cancelling memberships....
Last edited by EastGTARedFlagger on Feb 18th, 2018 12:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
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peanutz wrote: From the elliott.org link @EastGTARedFlagger posted:
Why do people on the internet make stuff up? This is blatantly untrue--California retailers are allowed to, and have scanned my Ontario driver's license (e.g. when I was buying pseudoephedrine for really bad allergies-induced runny nose.)
Definitely correct. EXACT same thing happened to me when I got sick on a CA trip (probably caught the cold virus on the flight over)... needed pseudoephedrine, pharmacist at Target scanned by licence, got my meds... trip saved :-)

I will say it is such a hassle (a lot of U.S. pharmacies -- CVS I know for sure -- won't sell it to Canadians) you're better off bringing your own pseudoephedrine on trips just in case.
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That CVS shopper was definitely a scammer. Too many visits, purchases and returns to CVS. Come on.

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