Parenting & Family

Would you send your kids to private school ?

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Deal Addict
Mar 27, 2011
1210 posts
89 upvotes
Nowhere
^The whole arguing for a percent or two is just as common in public school. Take the recent trend towards not failing kids. All over Ontario, young kids are almost literally not allowed to be failed. Teachers are scrutinized and must prove a kid should be held back. http://www.thestar.com/News/article/223488.

Overzealous parents (and students) is not a strictly private or public school issue. It is a fact in the 21st century and it is killing students, parents, and teachers. Kids are no longer allowed to be kids. It is all about getting into the top university blah blah. Parents are literally harassing teachers phoning them at every chance. (I realize I may be attacked for wanting to send my kids to private school yet bitching about competitiveness)

Your points about class size, equipment and tech are spot on. As I mentioned at the beginning, class sizes are so much smaller. Allows for more one and one time if the student needs it. And tech is such a huge thing. It pissed me off greatly in a few university classes when I was actually told we could not use laptops to take notes. It was ridiculous. The technology is there to help (yes of course there will always be those on the internet, which I did if the class bored me, but I still got good marks). I probably succeeded the way I did in private school because I had a laptop, and I actually was one of the few who did during the first few years of HS. It should be noted that our school did not provide laptops as a great deal of private schools do (so this does not exactly prove any tech point), but it was in no way discouraged through highschool... only once I got to university and there were wireless networks was it discouraged was was ridiculous.
Deal Addict
Dec 24, 2007
1993 posts
513 upvotes
Toronto
We have friends that their kids are in public system and they can't even read or write in grade 1.

There are public schools that are rated high but parents could afford sending their kids to kumon.

Again there are exceptional kids that require more attention because things come easier to them and need to he challenged.

Like I said if you could afford it why not!

Im in for anything that will help them in the future.

Cheers!



setell wrote: You think a intelligent kid that's in grade 1 but goes to public school isn't capable of the things you listed? My brother knew all those and by grade 2 he knew so much about Greek mythology that it was slightly creepy. I'll post back in a few years if he gets his career aspirations or if going to public school hindered him.

I would only consider private school if my kid needs special care. Private does not equate better in my books but they have more money to spend towards special needs children. That is something I am willing to pay.

I agree with dibksbgon that any sort of religious affiliation is a no go for me too.
Thread started in 2016 - 1927 fully gutted and renovated 2 storey detached home in the big T.O. - small projects still in progress.

RFD priceless!
Deal Guru
Dec 31, 2005
13306 posts
750 upvotes
dibksbgon wrote: ^The whole arguing for a percent or two is just as common in public school. Take the recent trend towards not failing kids. All over Ontario, young kids are almost literally not allowed to be failed. Teachers are scrutinized and must prove a kid should be held back. http://www.thestar.com/News/article/223488.

Overzealous parents (and students) is not a strictly private or public school issue. It is a fact in the 21st century and it is killing students, parents, and teachers. Kids are no longer allowed to be kids. It is all about getting into the top university blah blah. Parents are literally harassing teachers phoning them at every chance. (I realize I may be attacked for wanting to send my kids to private school yet bitching about competitiveness)

Your points about class size, equipment and tech are spot on. As I mentioned at the beginning, class sizes are so much smaller. Allows for more one and one time if the student needs it. And tech is such a huge thing. It pissed me off greatly in a few university classes when I was actually told we could not use laptops to take notes. It was ridiculous. The technology is there to help (yes of course there will always be those on the internet, which I did if the class bored me, but I still got good marks). I probably succeeded the way I did in private school because I had a laptop, and I actually was one of the few who did during the first few years of HS. It should be noted that our school did not provide laptops as a great deal of private schools do (so this does not exactly prove any tech point), but it was in no way discouraged through highschool... only once I got to university and there were wireless networks was it discouraged was was ridiculous.

According to wife, there is no comparison when it comes to threatening around marks...threatening is the key.

As for a laptop, the laptop itself does not make a better student or worker. We actually find that young employees actually become more productive when they start to reduce the time they use electronic devices.

What many companies are doing
No email...phone (so many reasons...from productivity to legal)
Train on PowerPoint...no more than 3 bullet point of 3-5 words...it is there to enhance, not deliver.


Of course as a tool it is great, but I have never seen As many spelling and grammatical mistakes...
Sr. Member
May 28, 2004
834 posts
140 upvotes
Milton
I would for sure. Because money is no object, and I'd send them to one of the Tier 1 schools (Appleby, SAC, TCS, UCC).

Do I think its worth 40-50K a year, no I think the cost is pretty insane, but as an Appleby Grad, the facilities are better then most and the push to get kids involved mandatory in sports and also extra curricular activities helps drive kids into things they wouldn't otherwise try.

You also have typically smaller student/teacher ratios, and the school has a reputation to uphold, so they are trying to drive the kids to success. They also have the capability to toss out bad students (either academically or plain bad kids) so they have the ability to keep the best students which will allow them to cover more material etc.

I think you can get a great education in the public system, and that is where my kids will go (because I don't have all of the money in the world) but if the opportunity was to send them free, i'd take it.

Nothing wrong with boarding either at later grades. I think its insane for grade 7-8s but I wouldn't have a problem with grade 10, 11, 12.
Deal Fanatic
User avatar
Sep 13, 2005
6905 posts
417 upvotes
Ottawa
badass wrote: We have friends that their kids are in public system and they can't even read or write in grade 1.

There are public schools that are rated high but parents could afford sending their kids to kumon.

Again there are exceptional kids that require more attention because things come easier to them and need to he challenged.

Like I said if you could afford it why not!

Im in for anything that will help them in the future.

Cheers!

You know there are late bloomers too. My sister is a prime example of one. Her elementary public school teachers all thought she was a dummy and wanted to hold her back a year or two as she wasn't grasping the concepts when we re-read her old report cards. Today, I would say she's doing very well for the so called "dummy" career wise. She's on track to be the top percentile earners in Canada. In a weird twisted kinda creepy way, she turned 180 degrees and showed how wrong her elementary teachers were about her. I'm of the mindset that you can't judge a young kid how he/she will perform when you haven't given him/her a chance yet. There are people like my brother that have always been intelligent and then there are people like my sister that seem to wake up one day and say "I'm going to be smart from now on".

I also understand there are folks that never get ahead too as my siblings seem to be the outliers on many levels. If you got a dud as a son/daughter then by all means use whatever you can to help him/her. I did say if you have a special need kid then I'm all for it as private school's got the funding to offer more.
Deal Fanatic
Jan 16, 2003
6507 posts
278 upvotes
badass wrote: We have friends that their kids are in public system and they can't even read or write in grade 1.

There are public schools that are rated high but parents could afford sending their kids to kumon.
Do these parents make their kids read at home? Do they do homework with them? Or do they simply pick them up from daycare at 6pm and sit them in front of the TV? School won't teach you everything, parents still play a really important role.
Deal Addict
Dec 24, 2007
1993 posts
513 upvotes
Toronto
mart242 wrote: Do these parents make their kids read at home? Do they do homework with them? Or do they simply pick them up from daycare at 6pm and sit them in front of the TV? School won't teach you everything, parents still play a really important role.

Parents play an important part in a child's development.

You have to make time for your child and sitting them in front of a tv as a babysitter just won't do.

Cheers
Thread started in 2016 - 1927 fully gutted and renovated 2 storey detached home in the big T.O. - small projects still in progress.

RFD priceless!
Deal Addict
Nov 29, 2009
2968 posts
685 upvotes
I'm not close to a parent but I considered this issue myself. Don't private schools have a priority of getting their student's into top universities so are the grades a really accurate representation of their student's true ability? I have one friend at uni who came from a private school and found it really difficult at first adjusting to university. He told me for many classes at his school they were provided with very similar mock exams or even the actual exam on the odd occasion prior to taking the exam.

It's quite a generalization but at private schools don't they WANT their students to get good grades to go to good universities in order to maintain their reputation? Opposed to public schools where teachers really don't care too much and to get those grades you need often you have to go the extra mile on your own?

(Don't want to imply that I approve of the overall curriculum employed in public high schools as I feel it hardly gets you ready for university)
Jr. Member
User avatar
May 9, 2010
174 posts
5 upvotes
Toronto
If money were no issue, absolutely. I think a big part of the appeal of private schools like UCC are the connections that can be made which can greatly help your child when they grow up and are paving their careers.

However I'm just a middle class schmuck so public school for my future children (if I have any) it is. :razz:
Deal Addict
Nov 29, 2009
2968 posts
685 upvotes
Anonymouse wrote: At Queen's, at least in the 90s, the admissions office would add 6-8% to the averages of tier 1 private school grads to compensate for the rampant grade inflation at the public schools. This was based on the first year performance of past matriculants.

It is hard to adjust from a tier 1 private school to a Canadian university, because professors typically have no pedagogical training and many don't have what you could call a complete mastery of the English language.

Shrug. There's nothing wrong with mock exams. One of the best ways to study for engineering exams is to do exam-calibre questions while timing yourself. At Queen's, prior exams are available online except in rare circumstances.

Where I went to high school, we did 3 hour exams in every course, twice a year. As a result, we got quite good at writing exams. In the local public school, if you had 70% going into the exam, you didn't have to write it.

It's hard to explain to someone who has never attended a tier 1 private school why they should send their kids to one. I will just say that virtually all my classmates intend to send their children to one. Really, you'd have to ask yourself why smart and high-achieving people send their kids to $50k/a schools if they aren't a good investment.
I'm talking Public High School V Private High School in case we might not be on the same page.

What rampant grade inflation is there? They add 6-8% on top of the mark received in private schools for them to compete with kids coming from public high schools I don't understand the reason behind this.

I don't mean just regular mock exams as I agree they are a great tool to study from, I mean mock exams with almost identical question format just instead of Mark it's Tom instead of 10 it's 20 etc.

Getting 70% and not writing the exam is a practice that is definitely not in effect today but can't believe it was even around when you had gone to school, dumb rule lol.

I'm not trying to bash private schools but more rather trying to understand why I would send my potential kids to one. I think the current system in public high schools is seriously flawed and me and other class mates couldn't believe the radical difference in uni compared to high school.
Deal Addict
Dec 24, 2007
1993 posts
513 upvotes
Toronto
To the last post, last paragraph.

Sad but true!
Thread started in 2016 - 1927 fully gutted and renovated 2 storey detached home in the big T.O. - small projects still in progress.

RFD priceless!
Deal Addict
Nov 29, 2009
2968 posts
685 upvotes
I don't know which one my friend had attended but I'm sure it wasn't a tier1 private school. After reading your guys posts, if I had the money I would send my potential children to private school. Thanks for the info.
Deal Addict
Feb 14, 2003
1991 posts
67 upvotes
GTA
which private schools are considered tier 1 in ontario?
Deal Addict
Mar 27, 2011
1210 posts
89 upvotes
Nowhere
blzn wrote: I don't know which one my friend had attended but I'm sure it wasn't a tier1 private school. After reading your guys posts, if I had the money I would send my potential children to private school. Thanks for the info.

There are tonnes of schools with a lower price tag ($10000 - 15000) that just do not do the boarding and do not necessarily have the name recognition like UCC, but are great institutions with many of the same programs.

Here is a website for those of you wanting to look into private schools. http://www.ourkids.net/
A list of schools in Mississauga for example (including the one I went to) with tuition between about $6000 - $25 000: http://www.ourkids.net/mississauga-private-schools.php

And clearly the tuition at my old school has gone up.


Edit:
DrXenon wrote:
- ability to place students into the top schools globally
- small (10-15) class sizes
- mandatory sports
- better lab equipment and facilities
- fewer social problems since the criminals/antisocials get kicked out
- everyone passes an entrance exam, so there are very few stupid people to hold the class back
- network of high-achieving people for life
The statement in bold pisses me off. Specifically because you are either a) referring to people with antisocial personality disorder which is a mental disorder and while some criminals have antisocial personality disorder, one who has it should not be associated with being a criminal person or b) you are referring to "antisocials" as those who are not as socially comfortable and perhaps socially awkward which I assure you still exist in private school. As a product of a private school, I can assure you the typical social structure you would find at public school is also at private school. There are still cliques. The brochures for private schools (the one I went to included) may say they are all inclusive and it is a family atmosphere amongst the students, but it is very very similar.

On a not so angry note, mandatory sports and entrance exams are not at every private school especially when you are looking at the private schools that deal with those in the younger grades. Often an entrance exam is not required for those catering exclusively to younger grades because they are entering in kindergarten. Again this goes back to what I have been saying about there being a crapload of private schools that do not have the "private school name recognition" that UCC and others have.
Deal Addict
Mar 27, 2011
1210 posts
89 upvotes
Nowhere
Straw man fallacy? I am not trying to refute anything or misrepresent anything. In fact I made it clear I am trying to figure out what the heck you meant by antisocials, which either way was very demeaning and you have yet to clarify what you meant by antisocials if you meant those with anti social personality disorder (which does not make them a criminal. It makes them a person with a mental illness) or if you meant antisocials as in those who are socially awkward or do not fit in with the norm. My issue was simply with your use of slashing criminals with antisocials which I really want to know your definition of. I completely understand private schools have the right to expel people. I am not contesting that or debating the fact it can be helpful. I am debating your use of language.

I also have issues when you said "so there are very few stupid people to hold the class back". It seemed rather mean. Not passing a private school entrance exam does not make you stupid. (Also some of the schools you mentioned start in kindergarton and the interview/exam is not exactly rocket science). In addition, even at UCC and all the schools you mentioned, there is a diversity of scholastic achievement even if they did pass the entrance exam. Even at private schools you have those who need extra help (which is no way is a bad thing). In fact, the lower student-teacher ratio perhaps allows you more time to stop and go over things someone may not understand. Many private schools pride themselves on having after-school help and one and one sessions including UCC.

I still have issues with your categorization as there is a broad range of types of schools. Some of which are based on Montessori, others with a religious foundation, and others are non-boarding. Truth be told, boarding = more expensive = more elite generally speaking.

And the sports comment was with regards to mandatory sports. Few schools make sports absolutely mandatory. There is a plethora more sports to choose from indeed, but not mandatory. Looking at the profile of my former school on the One Kids website, the list of sports reads like a novel...

To simple sum up, my issue with your argument is that you have a very very narrow few of what private school is and what a good private school is without grasping the immense variation amongst them (while I do acknowledge the similar features of low class sizes, better facilities, etc). And obviously my other issue is with some of the language you are using.

That is all. I have made my points. I will now vacate this thread :)
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Aug 28, 2007
1743 posts
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Sent my first daughter to private school for JK and SK. At the time, it was because they offered full-day kindergarten. At the same time, she had to take a test to gain entry and she scored very well.

As the school year progressed, we found that we were very impressed with the curriculum that she received. She was reading very well by the end of JK.

If money weren't an issue, we would've kept her there. But we had to make a choice.

The transition from private school to public school was pretty painful. The stuff that she was learning in JK at the private school... she was now learning in Grade 1 at public school. And I don't know if it was just our experience, but the teachers seem to have a different attitude towards the kids. Probably due to the increased class size.

In the end, I'll say that private school was a great experience. But in the grand scheme, it's not a necessity.
Banned
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May 3, 2009
6148 posts
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JAGpilot wrote: What makes a school that charges $50,000 a year better? University isn't even that much. It's all about status. Live in Rosedale, multi-million dollar house, $2000 a month in car lease payments, and $50,000 a head for each of your three kids.

Really? Houses in Aurora are much bigger, affluent, and some looks downright like castle!
Member
Jan 20, 2007
383 posts
149 upvotes
Montreal
DrXenon wrote: - ability to place students into the top schools globally
- small (10-15) class sizes
- mandatory sports
- better lab equipment and facilities
- fewer social problems since the criminals/antisocials get kicked out
- everyone passes an entrance exam, so there are very few stupid people to hold the class back
- network of high-achieving people for life

THIS.
It may seem expensive but if you could ever afford it your child WILL be that much better off than most any public school can provide.

Not to dump on public schools (which I attended) but they do not provide the motivation for teachers to have their students excel, also the slower children DO hold classes back... If u can easily afford it then you are doing a disservice to your child by not providing him/her with the absolute best tools which will forever shape their lives to come.
Sr. Member
User avatar
Jun 14, 2010
731 posts
39 upvotes
Edmonton
w01f wrote: THIS.
.. also the slower children DO hold classes back....

How is this a problem? We live in a society that caters to the lowest common denominator. If children have these values engendered into them at an early age, it will serve them well for life.

Getting along is a far more important quality to have for employees than getting ahead.
Sr. Member
Aug 11, 2008
637 posts
222 upvotes
DrXenon wrote: I find it necessary to address only this point in your angry diatribe.

Here is a reasonably good list of quality Ontario independent boarding/day schools that I got off the CAIS website. (Is your alma mater on this list?) Please identify the ones that do not have mandatory sports. I think that, on investigation, you will find they all do. There may be some second tier ones that don't.
I was told by some friends that went to UCC that sports were only mandatory to fulfil a requirement for the IB program (See "Creativity Action, Service" in http://www.ibo.org/recognition/resource ... -FINAL.pdf). So yes, to confirm your point, at IB schools sports would probably be mandatory.

AP does not require sports, which is probably why SCS and Crescent do not have mandatory sports. However, most students participate in the Duke of Ed program, which does require sports/physical activity.

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