Ongoing Deal Discussion

[Always] WOW ---- New and used cars from US up to 30% cheaper - Read post #1

Poll: Are Canadian cars overpriced

  • Total votes: 335. You have voted on this poll.
I have no voice, Canadian Dealers/Manufacturers are taking advantage of the Canadian consumer
 
112
33%
In most cases, new cars purchased in the US are almost always thousands cheaper
 
149
44%
I owe no one a living, competition is good. Thank you NAFTA!
 
61
18%
With the exchange rate factored in, Canadian prices are roughly the same
 
6
2%
With the exchange rate and financing, Canadian prices are cheaper - Buy Canadian!
 
7
2%

Poll ended at Dec 28th, 2006 1:46 pm

Newbie
Oct 20, 2002
48 posts
Burnaby, B.C.
I think Toolman was just lucky. I made the decision to buy a Sienna from the U.S. last week, wired the money yesterday, and by chance I just happened to double-check the inadmissible vehicle list and discovered that the 2008 Sienna was on there. I called RIV this morning and they confirmed that any 2008 Sienna built on or after September 1, 2007, will not be allowed into Canada. The person at RIV said that the only way such a car could be imported would be to have an immobilizer that is up to Canadian standards installed, but that installation would have to happen in the States--it would not be allowed across the border until it was done. She didn't even know whether such a thing was possible, and said I should call Toyota.

I was lucky--I talked to my dealership and although the car I was going to buy was manufactured in October, they had one on the lot with identical options but in a different colour that was manufactured in August, so I'm in the clear. But if you've already arranged to bring a Sienna across the border, TALK TO YOUR DEALER! Otherwise you may be facing a nasty surprise when you get across the border.
Banned
Oct 24, 2004
589 posts
14 upvotes
MightyMike wrote:
Nov 3rd, 2007 3:00 pm
I think Toolman was just lucky. I made the decision to buy a Sienna from the U.S. last week, wired the money yesterday, and by chance I just happened to double-check the inadmissible vehicle list and discovered that the 2008 Sienna was on there. I called RIV this morning and they confirmed that any 2008 Sienna built on or after September 1, 2007, will not be allowed into Canada. The person at RIV said that the only way such a car could be imported would be to have an immobilizer that is up to Canadian standards installed, but that installation would have to happen in the States--it would not be allowed across the border until it was done. She didn't even know whether such a thing was possible, and said I should call Toyota.

I was lucky--I talked to my dealership and although the car I was going to buy was manufactured in October, they had one on the lot with identical options but in a different colour that was manufactured in August, so I'm in the clear. But if you've already arranged to bring a Sienna across the border, TALK TO YOUR DEALER! Otherwise you may be facing a nasty surprise when you get across the border.
OK, Toyota Sienna CE does not have immobilizer. Toyota Sienna LE does have immobilizer. Why RIV in the list just wrote that all Toyota Sienna 2008 models are not allowed? Are you buying LE?
Newbie
Oct 20, 2002
48 posts
Burnaby, B.C.
vim wrote:
Nov 3rd, 2007 3:46 pm
OK, Toyota Sienna CE does not have immobilizer. Toyota Sienna LE does have immobilizer. Why RIV in the list just wrote that all Toyota Sienna 2008 models are not allowed? Are you buying LE?
I'm buying the LE. Apparently there's some difference between Canadian and American immobilizers that makes this whole vehicle impossible to import. More likely, Toyota's making it all up in an effort to stop people like us from saving money.
Jr. Member
User avatar
Oct 14, 2007
109 posts
Pierrefonds, Quebec
MightyMike wrote:
Nov 3rd, 2007 4:03 pm
I'm buying the LE. Apparently there's some difference between Canadian and American immobilizers that makes this whole vehicle impossible to import. More likely, Toyota's making it all up in an effort to stop people like us from saving money.
Toyota is making it up just like Honda! TC is saying if the manufacturer says the car doesn't meet the immobilizer spec your INADMIN. Now the manufacturers are also saying that if you install a 3rd party Immobilizer on top of the non-compliant one they will not guarantee the safety of the car!!

The 3rd party companies are saying that putting their product on top does not affect the safety or performance of the car.

TC does not have the balls to stand up to the manufacturers and favor the consumer, it is all a big joke to them.
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Newbie
Oct 31, 2007
67 posts
Vancouver, BC
daftfunk wrote:
Nov 3rd, 2007 9:49 am
Ford joins incentive parade with `allowance,' GST cut:

Ford is offering consumers big auto incentives worth several thousand dollars in response to a consumer uproar over much lower prices on the same vehicles in the U.S.
.........

At Ford, the incentives will drop the price of a 2007 Focus ZX5 by $3,250 to $15,749; a 2007 Ford Fusion by $5,570 to $18,749 and a F-250 super duty pickup truck by $4,500 to $24,499. The prices do not include freight or taxes.

http://www.thestar.com/Business/article/273204
Yahoo! Ford is doing the right thing while GM is playing the hard ball.
Compare car prices between U.S. and Canada at www.ATaleofTwoPrices.com
Sr. Member
Jan 10, 2007
527 posts
129 upvotes
Montreal
Transport Canada depends on the goodwill of manufacturers to voluntarily submit information on compliance of vehicles to Canadian standards. I suspect that if there is any suspicion of tampering by Toyota and Honda there will be an investigation into the immobilizer issue and should these vehicles be identical they will eventually be allowed in as they ARE compliant to the Canadian standards: case in point the 2008 Civic that you have tried to import and when you contacted Honda USA they said that if you submit a US passport and a US address they will send you a compliance letter. In the legal sphere that is a pretty obvious precedent !

Thus, I would strongly suggest that all of us should send e-mails and call TC about this issue, even if you are not buying a Honda or Toyota as other manufacturers might follow suit with these false immobilizer issues.
scrolllock wrote:
Nov 3rd, 2007 4:11 pm
Toyota is making it up just like Honda! TC is saying if the manufacturer says the car doesn't meet the immobilizer spec your INADMIN. Now the manufacturers are also saying that if you install a 3rd party Immobilizer on top of the non-compliant one they will not guarantee the safety of the car!!

The 3rd party companies are saying that putting their product on top does not affect the safety or performance of the car.

TC does not have the balls to stand up to the manufacturers and favor the consumer, it is all a big joke to them.
Newbie
Jul 18, 2007
62 posts
17 upvotes
Toronto
As far as I can tell the recent movement by Canadian car dealers in terms of incentives, rebates and lower prices is pretty much a token guesture.

Whatever vehicle you're looking at check it out fully in Canadian and US models.

I recently imported a used BMW Z4 (couldn't find anyone to sell new). Just for fun I checked out a 2007 model specced exactly the same from BMW Canada and BMW USA.

Canadian price- $60,385 Can. $

US price- $43,050 US $ = $40,613 (at $1.06 rate).

That means the Canadian car costs 50% more!!!. Note, the only alteration needed on this car for me was daytime running ligghts, which the US dealer did for free.

We are still getting screwed here folks.
Newbie
Oct 20, 2002
48 posts
Burnaby, B.C.
Well it turns out the the Sienna the dealership told me they had in a different colour didn't actually exist--it was from another dealership and should never have been on their system. So they're currently hunting high and low to find me a Sienna manufactured before September--and surprise surprise, they've found me one that's $3,500 more expensive because it has the fancy DVD player package that I don't want!

I'm starting to get the feeling I'm being shafted. If they can't find me an alternative car, I'm buying a Hyundai Entourage. I've already talked to a Hyundai dealership in Bellingham and they're happy to sell to Canadians.
Newbie
Dec 9, 2006
64 posts
daftfunk wrote:
Nov 3rd, 2007 9:49 am
Ford joins incentive parade with `allowance,' GST cut:

Ford is offering consumers big auto incentives worth several thousand dollars in response to a consumer uproar over much lower prices on the same vehicles in the U.S.
.........

At Ford, the incentives will drop the price of a 2007 Focus ZX5 by $3,250 to $15,749; a 2007 Ford Fusion by $5,570 to $18,749 and a F-250 super duty pickup truck by $4,500 to $24,499. The prices do not include freight or taxes.

http://www.thestar.com/Business/article/273204
What are the incentives for Mercedes?
Member
Nov 18, 2006
373 posts
22 upvotes
I have to laugh. After I had to send an email basically saying "sorry, Toyota Canada has shafted me" to the Toyota dealership in DC that I was going to purchase a Prius from, I decided to give a couple dealerships in Ottawa a call (I was in the mood for an argument).

After getting the price $37,940 quoted to me (and $37,250 from dealership #2 -- $22,986 is what I was going to get the Prius for in the US) I brought up the fact that I had an American dealership willing to sell me the EXACT same car for $15,000 less. The guy on the phone at the first dealership quoted the Toyota bulletin saying that because of TSC (whatever it was about the engine immobilizer) that I could not bring the car into Canada. At dealership #2 there was some small-talk before he pulled out the engine immobilizer issue likely from the same bulletin.

Don't you think it's odd that both dealerships had a piece of paper on their desks with the engine immobilizer issue front and center? Almost like they've been told to push that as the excuse for why we shouldn't/couldn't buy from the US. As a side note, both of them tried to convince me that there was virtually no price difference between the American and Canadian cars once I paid duty/DRL etc... is it impolite to laugh at somebody while you're on the phone with them?

Long story short: Contact your local XXX dealership (whatever car you want to get) and tell them that the current situation is unacceptable. You would like to support them, but that their invoice price is too high and that you're buying that same vehicle from an American dealership. They have no way of knowing that you're bluffing about buying, but maybe, just maybe, they'll put pressure on the manufacturer of the car to change the pricing.
Newbie
Dec 19, 2005
83 posts
9 upvotes
As Acura did this weekend, the rumour is that Honda will have some token rebates for some of their models sometime next week. Even with the MDX at $7-$9000 off, it is still $7000 - $9,000 cheaper in the US. To the auto manufacturers, stop with the token rebates. This is enough, the cost has to be identical, now, not next week, next month, RIGHT NOW. the consumers have spoken!!!!!!! :twisted:
Newbie
Oct 31, 2007
67 posts
Vancouver, BC
flatman wrote:
Nov 3rd, 2007 5:14 pm
As far as I can tell the recent movement by Canadian car dealers in terms of incentives, rebates and lower prices is pretty much a token guesture.

Whatever vehicle you're looking at check it out fully in Canadian and US models.

I recently imported a used BMW Z4 (couldn't find anyone to sell new). Just for fun I checked out a 2007 model specced exactly the same from BMW Canada and BMW USA.

Canadian price- $60,385 Can. $

US price- $43,050 US $ = $40,613 (at $1.06 rate).

That means the Canadian car costs 50% more!!!. Note, the only alteration needed on this car for me was daytime running ligghts, which the US dealer did for free.

We are still getting screwed here folks.
Exactly. I won't buy cars in Canada until the prices reflect the reality.
Compare car prices between U.S. and Canada at www.ATaleofTwoPrices.com
Newbie
Nov 2, 2007
7 posts
jnmontario wrote:
Nov 3rd, 2007 6:31 pm
I have to laugh. After I had to send an email basically saying "sorry, Toyota Canada has shafted me" to the Toyota dealership in DC that I was going to purchase a Prius from, I decided to give a couple dealerships in Ottawa a call (I was in the mood for an argument).

After getting the price $37,940 quoted to me (and $37,250 from dealership #2 -- $22,986 is what I was going to get the Prius for in the US) I brought up the fact that I had an American dealership willing to sell me the EXACT same car for $15,000 less. The guy on the phone at the first dealership quoted the Toyota bulletin saying that because of TSC (whatever it was about the engine immobilizer) that I could not bring the car into Canada. At dealership #2 there was some small-talk before he pulled out the engine immobilizer issue likely from the same bulletin.

Don't you think it's odd that both dealerships had a piece of paper on their desks with the engine immobilizer issue front and center? Almost like they've been told to push that as the excuse for why we shouldn't/couldn't buy from the US. As a side note, both of them tried to convince me that there was virtually no price difference between the American and Canadian cars once I paid duty/DRL etc... is it impolite to laugh at somebody while you're on the phone with them?

Long story short: Contact your local XXX dealership (whatever car you want to get) and tell them that the current situation is unacceptable. You would like to support them, but that their invoice price is too high and that you're buying that same vehicle from an American dealership. They have no way of knowing that you're bluffing about buying, but maybe, just maybe, they'll put pressure on the manufacturer of the car to change the pricing.
For those who want to google info check the following specs for this issue. So far I think the Canadian specs are based on the US ones and I must contact Transport Canada for their version as I'm not at all happy that Toyota is upfront with the consumers.

The immobilizer complies with this spec CMVSS 114
http://canadagazette.gc.ca/partII/2005/ ... r45-e.html
http://www.tc.gc.ca/acts-regulations/GE ... sr114.html

in which the immobilizer is defined under this spec
CAN/ULC-S338-98, entitled Standard for Automobile Theft Deterrent Equipment and Systems: Electronic Immobilization
which as far as I can tell is based on the USA spec.
If you read all the info it seems that the whole idea is to harmonize the theft immobilization systems with the ones already in place in the USA.

For any who are willing to research this issue please post any interpretations but for now I can't see any difference between the US spec systems and ours. I'll do my best to contact Transport Canada for their side of the story.

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