Ongoing Deal Discussion

[Always] WOW ---- New and used cars from US up to 30% cheaper - Read post #1

Poll: Are Canadian cars overpriced

  • Total votes: 335. You have voted on this poll.
I have no voice, Canadian Dealers/Manufacturers are taking advantage of the Canadian consumer
 
112
33%
In most cases, new cars purchased in the US are almost always thousands cheaper
 
149
44%
I owe no one a living, competition is good. Thank you NAFTA!
 
61
18%
With the exchange rate factored in, Canadian prices are roughly the same
 
6
2%
With the exchange rate and financing, Canadian prices are cheaper - Buy Canadian!
 
7
2%

Poll ended at Dec 28th, 2006 1:46 pm

Jr. Member
Oct 21, 2007
100 posts
2 upvotes
CMVSS 114 (latest iteration) was concocted in 2003. After extensive consultation with Canadian Vehicle Manufacturers Association (CVMA), individual manufacturers, Insurance Bureau of Canada, Insurance Company of British Columbia and other industry groups it came into effect Sept. 01 2007. What is most interesting is that the cost to the manufacturers to put it in each vehicle was estimated to be $32. Equally interesting is that the European and FMVSS 114 USA were accepted up until Sept 2007 at which time the United Nations ECE standard replaced the CMVSS 114 that existed up to that time. It should be emphasized that the IBC and ICBC were supportive of a home grown after market solution or the system used by US manufacturers in high theft vehicles. All this is not cast in stone, what the politicians/bureaucrats write can be rewritten. It is not difficult for Lawrence Cannon to instruct his bureaucrats to rewrite CMVSS 114 to accept European, US and IBC/ICBC standards. We have a land border with a country that constitutes 90% of the NA market it does not make sense to have Acts/Regulations that do not take economic and geographic reality into account. The bottom line here is that Canada has a regulation that adds $4,000 to $40,000 to the cost of a car for the Canadian buyers. This regulation was not supported by the manufacturers or the insurance industry in 2003-2004 when it was formulated. Mind you it became very useful to the manufacturers and dealers over the past two years. This abomination has to be amended and it is not a long drawn out process to get Privy Council to issue the amendment. Lawrence Cannon is personally responsible for presenting his recommendations and supporting documentation to Privy Council. Privy Council is a subset of Cabinet, after Cannon shifts the burden to privy Council you can then find Flaherty and Harper responsible for adding $4,000 to $40,000 to the cost of your car. A $32 mod adds $4,000 to $40,000 to the cost of a car, Alice in Wonderland alive and well, living in Canadian Govt regulations.
Keep on comparison shopping.
Deal Addict
User avatar
Dec 26, 2006
1547 posts
50 upvotes
ON
Well, maybe he bought the car through his company and sold it with GST+PST.


Bullseye wrote:
Nov 5th, 2007 8:53 am
Originally Posted by dotcalamitie
Well, there is profit in them hills kids...I bought my Subaru off Multiline for $33 and have sold it for $36 thru autotrader.

----------------------

The buyer isn't as bad off over the Multiline price as you might think. He saved the GST by buying from Dotcalamity, so the final after tax price would have been $38,880, instead of $37,620.

Looks like Dotcalamity is the loser in this deal, unless he's found some way to avoid paying the GST/PST when he bought (which as an accountant, I'd be very curious to hear about!).
Jr. Member
Dec 2, 2003
149 posts
He told me that 3 people with US cars had come in for service in the past little while. And the dealership could not work on the vehicles because the s/w was not the same version. I know nothing more than that is what he said. The dealership/Subaru Canada is giving a further discount of $1500-$2500 cash discount and 1.9% -2.9 % rates on financing. My guess is that the US rates will go up and ours may move down a digit or two but that is how the car co's will do it anyway.


B

PS is the real problem leased residual values and the companies both finance and car will be holding the bag for upto 50% loss on residuals?
Sr. Member
User avatar
Jul 24, 2007
545 posts
1 upvote
No worries. The DRL kit you bought at CT is the generic module compatible with all vehicles. It supplies full voltage to the headlights. You were expecting to see a reduced light output but the kit supplies full voltage. If you want a reduced light output on your DRL kit, you have to buy the different DRL kit that produces the reduced output for about $75.
Kocur wrote:
Nov 5th, 2007 9:41 am
I purchased the DRL kit and had Canadian Tire install it.
Now, everything seems fine except that there is no difference in 'strenght' of the headlight between DRLs and LIGHTS ON.
I thought DRLs use less WATTS and produce less light.
Was the kit improperly installed or could it be that the american bulb is different than canadian bulb? :cheesygri
Thanks in advance, Kocur.
Newbie
Dec 19, 2005
83 posts
9 upvotes
Received the following from the competition Bureau. Looks like from their point of view they can't enforce much, so best to stick with Transport Canada!!


I am responding to your telephone call to the Competition Bureau 2 November 2007 concerning restrictions on importing lower priced vehicles from the U.S.

The Competition Bureau is responsible for enforcing the Competition Act. The purpose of the Act is to maintain and encourage competition in Canada in order to promote economic efficiency in the Canadian economy and to provide consumers with competitive prices and product choices. As a statute of general application, it does not attempt to regulate individual transactions between buyers and sellers. Rather, the Act seeks to develop and maintain the conditions necessary for a competitive marketplace by defining a number of anti-competitive practices. Some of these practices are prohibited as criminal offences. Other practices, perceived to be potentially but not necessarily anti-competitive, are subject to review and remedial action by the Competition Tribunal. The Act does not provide the Bureau with any regulatory authority to decide the law or to compel entities to adopt a particular course of conduct in respect of their activities.

Businesses are generally free to set their own prices, at whatever levels the market will bear. High prices are a concern when they are the result of anti-competitive conduct subject to the Act.

The conspiracy provision, section 45 of the Competition Act, prohibits agreements among competitors that unduly lessen competition, such as price fixing arrangements. However, high prices or higher prices in one place than another is not, by itself, evidence of an agreement, particularly when there are plausible alternative explanations. The case law surrounding section 45 makes it clear that the practice of firms simply following their competitors' initiatives does not constitute a conspiracy offence. In any event, the section does not apply to the unilateral conduct of individual firms or to arrangements among related companies such as a supplier and its franchised dealers.

The Act recognizes that suppliers should be free to determine how best to distribute their products. Market restriction, where a supplier requires its authorized dealers to sell only within a specific geographic area, is generally permissible. The same applies to making warranties conditional on purchasing through an authorized dealer for the area. Pursuant to section 77 of the Act, the Tribunal can prohibit market restriction where it is likely to substantially lessen competition in a market as a whole. In this case, the practice only restricts imports of the manufacturer's own vehicles and does not restrict competition among the relatively large number of vehicle manufacturers in the overall market. Therefore, the market restriction is unlikely to result in a substantial lessening of competition in the market as a whole. Accordingly, this matter does not warrant further examination.

Thank you for bringing your concerns to our attention.

Richard Robicheau
Competition Law Officer | Agent du droit de la concurrence
(819) 994-7703 | Fax | T
Newbie
Nov 4, 2007
16 posts
Just sent this to the Politicians.. Harper, Cannon, Pelltier, Dion, Layton

J.C. , here is a write up of what has to be done by Mr. Cannon and Mr. Harper over the course of the next few weeks. If not, I can guarantee you that this will hit the press and make the Conservatives look very bad. Already over 1 million people have visited the web site and clearly understand what Transportation Canada is up to .



The Liberals and NDP are going to be advised of the situation by 4:00 P.M. today.



Please provide me with a special exemption or at least have someone from transportation Canada put down in writing to the me and the public that Honda America states that the Honda Civic 2008 does not meet Canadian Standard Specification CMVS 114 and that there is no work around. The car cannot be altered. (which we all know is a lie)



I am fully prepared to return the car
Deal Fanatic
Feb 1, 2006
9543 posts
694 upvotes
Muskoka
Bikeboy_99 wrote:
Nov 5th, 2007 10:54 am
He told me that 3 people with US cars had come in for service in the past little while. And the dealership could not work on the vehicles because the s/w was not the same version. I know nothing more than that is what he said. The dealership/Subaru Canada is giving a further discount of $1500-$2500 cash discount and 1.9% -2.9 % rates on financing. My guess is that the US rates will go up and ours may move down a digit or two but that is how the car co's will do it anyway.
My guess is this is just more scare tactics on the part of a desperate salesperson. Can't possibly be much difference in terms of vehicles, they are all made for global markets now.
Newbie
Dec 4, 2004
68 posts
3 upvotes
You are very lucky.
What does warranty vehicle inquiry look like? Is there any BMW logo on it?
I got a sevice histroy report from the dealer, but no logo on it.

Anybody else find a way to avoid paying BMW Canada $500 for this letter?

[quote="flatman" post_id="5861003" time="1193942972" user_id="106210"]Just completed import of 2005 BMW Z4.
Here's how it went.

Oct 25th drove down to Chicago with my wife and picked up the car. BMW salesman provide me with a Warranty Vehicle Inquiry which was accepted by RIV as a recall letter.While I was in chicago I picked up 4 snow tires for a savings of over $300 includiong tax and duty. Salesman provided a 10 day Ill. trip permit and I was on my way.
Member
User avatar
Sep 20, 2006
254 posts
Anyone know which BMW dealership in the US is willing to sell to Canadian residents?
Some dealers are not willing to sell to CND res.

I been looking at an X5.
I really want the diesel version but not coming out til late 2008, not sure I can wait that long...
and also I don't like to buy any car first year in production, first year for X5 diesel.
The other thought was Porsche Cayenne Hybrid, but not out til 08 or 09?
Jr. Member
Sep 10, 2006
178 posts
6 upvotes
The dealer made alot of money from the services, if he didn't to serv you so tell him that you will change the dealer to do the service for you. The dealer made alot of money more on the service than the actual sale to the buyer.

Bikeboy_99 wrote:
Nov 5th, 2007 10:54 am
He told me that 3 people with US cars had come in for service in the past little while. And the dealership could not work on the vehicles because the s/w was not the same version. I know nothing more than that is what he said. The dealership/Subaru Canada is giving a further discount of $1500-$2500 cash discount and 1.9% -2.9 % rates on financing. My guess is that the US rates will go up and ours may move down a digit or two but that is how the car co's will do it anyway.


B

PS is the real problem leased residual values and the companies both finance and car will be holding the bag for upto 50% loss on residuals?
Member
May 15, 2004
401 posts
24 upvotes
diigii wrote:
Nov 5th, 2007 10:55 am
No worries. The DRL kit you bought at CT is the generic module compatible with all vehicles. It supplies full voltage to the headlights. You were expecting to see a reduced light output but the kit supplies full voltage. If you want a reduced light output on your DRL kit, you have to buy the different DRL kit that produces the reduced output for about $75.
thanks a lot diigii
Newbie
Dec 4, 2004
68 posts
3 upvotes
hhhm3 wrote:
Nov 5th, 2007 11:41 am
Anyone know which BMW dealership in the US is willing to sell to Canadian residents?
Some dealers are not willing to sell to CND res.

I been looking at an X5.
I really want the diesel version but not coming out til late 2008, not sure I can wait that long...
and also I don't like to buy any car first year in production, first year for X5 diesel.
The other thought was Porsche Cayenne Hybrid, but not out til 08 or 09?
You can only get a pre-owned one, unless you have a US friend working with you.
Sr. Member
User avatar
Jul 24, 2007
545 posts
1 upvote
With the immobilizer system fiasco being used as the basis of inadmissibility for volume seller 2008 vehicles, I can't help but see who really is in charge of Transport Canada. It is the Canadian manufacturers/distributors head offices who are running Transport Canada. As what Transport Canada has said in its statements, it is up to the manufacturers to send in the pertinent information to determine a vehicle's admissibility. Transport Canada SHOULD be the one REQUIRING AND MANDATING a vehicle's admissibility standards. But as it stands now, TC is a lame duck and is at the mercy of the manufacturers/distributors. TC gets trampled on by "bullies."

Transport Canada is the government agency, it should act the boss in enforcing it's own mandate. I just feel jealous in that the US' NHTSA is not run by automakers.
Newbie
Nov 3, 2007
90 posts
I called BMW HQ in Canada today, just for the hell of it :)

I figure if more people call in and give them a really hard time maybe they will bring that news to the German HQ.

Funny thing is when i asked for the German HQ number, the guy was very defensive and did not want to give me the number at all, and he did not .

He was just talking about how BMW Canada is giving 1,500 incentive on a 328i 2008 model and that is supposed to let us forget the 10K+ difference in price in the USA.

WE don't have a government that will protect us, we have 2 bit whores in power that sold their souls to the corporations.

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