Ongoing Deal Discussion

[Always] WOW ---- New and used cars from US up to 30% cheaper - Read post #1

Poll: Are Canadian cars overpriced

  • Total votes: 335. You have voted on this poll.
I have no voice, Canadian Dealers/Manufacturers are taking advantage of the Canadian consumer
 
112
33%
In most cases, new cars purchased in the US are almost always thousands cheaper
 
149
44%
I owe no one a living, competition is good. Thank you NAFTA!
 
61
18%
With the exchange rate factored in, Canadian prices are roughly the same
 
6
2%
With the exchange rate and financing, Canadian prices are cheaper - Buy Canadian!
 
7
2%

Poll ended at Dec 28th, 2006 1:46 pm

Member
User avatar
Mar 4, 2004
212 posts
4 upvotes
Kingston, Ontario
james-007 wrote:
Oct 3rd, 2006 3:47 pm
I am looking into buying a Toyota Highlander and most of the dealers will not sell you one if you are going to export it. There is an agreement in place between US and CA Toyota but they will sell you a very good used one. I'm in BC and I found 1 dealer in Washington that will sell me what I'm looking for. The other way to do it would be to provide dealer 2 pieces of ID that will prove you live in states ( friend) and then export it. I have talked to about 6-8 dealers now and they all say Canada is their bread and butter these days....
To put some context to my comments I'm currently driving a Sienna and I've owned other Toyotas in the past, so I have nothing personal against the company...however, if Toyota Canada is going to screw us over like this (assisted by Toyota in the US), then I personally wouldn't buy from them. Why are people so focused on getting a Toyota and rewarding this company with their hard-earned dollars? There are lots of other vehicles to choose from, who are more than willing to take your money and treat you fairly. Let someone else have your business and send a message to Toyota.

Just my 2 cents...
Jr. Member
User avatar
Feb 20, 2005
126 posts
GTA & Surroundin…
As I wrote in previous, most of the US Toyota cannot sell NEW to Canadian due to agreement. There are a few would do a 'trick' to help you but you need to aware that they will 'make' yours as 'used' or demo.

Personally, I do not believe Toyota Canada is screwing us on our hard earning money. It is just a agreement between the same company to protect their workers in different country.

I owned different Toyota/Lexus in my life which included my 2005 Sienna XLE AWD and new 07 Camry Hybrid.

Yes in some case you save $$$$ or even $$$$$. But do not forget Toyota Canada offers very rate or incentives to Canadian which no available to US residents. Also please think about when you resell the US model 3or 4 years down the road. Honestly, if I need a used Toyota in the future. I would perfer to buy a Canadian model.



joe friday wrote:
Oct 3rd, 2006 9:37 pm
To put some context to my comments I'm currently driving a Sienna and I've owned other Toyotas in the past, so I have nothing personal against the company...however, if Toyota Canada is going to screw us over like this (assisted by Toyota in the US), then I personally wouldn't buy from them. Why are people so focused on getting a Toyota and rewarding this company with their hard-earned dollars? There are lots of other vehicles to choose from, who are more than willing to take your money and treat you fairly. Let someone else have your business and send a message to Toyota.

Just my 2 cents...
Deal Fanatic
User avatar
Feb 28, 2003
7451 posts
235 upvotes
lexus wrote:
Oct 4th, 2006 7:45 am
As I wrote in previous, most of the US Toyota cannot sell NEW to Canadian due to agreement.
Personally, I do not believe Toyota Canada is screwing us on our hard earning money. It is just a agreement between the same company to protect their workers in different country.
Don't take this the wrong way but you post makes absolutely no sense at all. Why would US dealers want sign into this agreement? There was no agreement except for a threat that US dealers would lose their rights to sell Toyota cars.
Do you honestly believe US dealers would not want to sell cars to Canadians??
Yes in some case you save $$$$ or even $$$$$. But do not forget Toyota Canada offers very rate or incentives to Canadian which no available to US residents.[\quote]How does this matter for someone that will pay in full for a US car?
Also please think about when you resell the US model 3or 4 years down the road. Honestly, if I need a used Toyota in the future. I would perfer to buy a Canadian model.
There's no logic in this. Some Canadian models are made in the US and vice versa. How is one worth less than the other even if it's imported by the owner?

Bottom line: If toyota wants to keep this practice up, no self respecting consumer should buy their cars at inflated canadian msrp prices. Buy from car companies that don't have this kind of nonsense. Subaru is a good example.
Thoughts and Prayers to the many thousands of civilians who perished from terrorists acts.
Sr. Member
Feb 12, 2006
581 posts
25 upvotes
Highlander is only made in Japan. So the why 10k price difference? If this is the way I'm going to be treated because I live in a Canada, well I'm going to cross the border and buy a vehicle there.
Sr. Member
Mar 27, 2006
851 posts
118 upvotes
Keep in mind that the highlander is made in Japan so is subject to the 6% duty at the border. Also, you need to be able to get a recall clearance letter from either a dealer or the manufacturer....not sure how people get those for Toyotas.

We know Honda won't honour the warranty but Toyota (if you can buy one) and subaru will.

Anyone know the policy of Mazda? Nissan?
Jr. Member
User avatar
Feb 20, 2005
126 posts
GTA & Surroundin…
First of all, I am just saying the fact here. It may be impact or affect some of you but not everyone.

I totally agree Canadian models are made in US and VV. But it does trade-in less down the road. There is a logic here, maybe it does not impact you at this time. Since everyone in this post are talking about import a new/used car from US. But none of these people are thinking or even talked to Canadian used car manager on resale US import car. This is just individual concept when dealing with used car.

Have you notice a Quebec driven (or out of province) unit will trade-in less because people try to stay away from them.

Another case, if you trade in a decent Toyota unit to Honda dealership. Honda dealership may keep it in their lot and resale it. This case, they may be able to get you a better trade-in value. Otherwise, they will call the wholesaler instead.

If everyone has the cash and pay in full then shopping at US is a good idea but still no always true. There is always 2 sides in every case. And you could be right on in your case. But think about the whole GTA purchase style. The % of paid cash in full is less than the rest. I know there are lot of rich people in GTA but they may not pay in full on automobile because it deprecite.

No self respecting consumer should buy their cars. Honestly, it would not happened and it will never happened. Just like people said VW is no good but have a look around you. There are more TDI than Hybrid on the road.

Here is my real case:
2 months ago when I purchased my 07Camry Hybrid. I checked more than 10 US Toyota stores and none of them will have 1 for me untiil December/Jan07 (of course, they will not sell a NEW one with less than 10 km). Let said even they will, The MSRP of Hybrid = to Canadian Hybrid package A is US$28297. Research said US resident sometimes pay over MSRP to get one, it is that good. From www.edmunds.com, the TMV for the same model shows other people are paying US$30334.

I just pick the lowest number here:
US$28297 + duty (build in Jap) + currency ex + Ontario taxes + RIV fee
= 28297*1.06*1.15(if you are lucky) + taxes + RIV fee
= Cdn$34494 + taxes + RIV fee
Are you still with me here?
The MSRP for Canadian Hybrid Package A is Cdn$31900 + freight + taxes
and Toyota Canada does offers different finance option to help me out (4.9% F vs 4.7% L). How much did I save? By the way, with the APA price, I got a very reasonable discount on the Hybrid thru a GTA dealer. I picked up mine last week and it is great. Even better than our other Lexus.

I noticed a lot of people talk about Subaru in this post. I totally agree it is a good car and company. My brother just got a Forester this year and it is excellent but ...

He paid just less than Cdn$32000 on the road with 0% and 0 down, rust proof, 5 years ext warranty(APA price), paint & fabric protection.
In the States, the same model MSRP is US$24495. The invoice is US$22998. So our calculation show if we pay invoice (just the car) it will probably be ~Cdn30800 (after import). Again even with Home Equity line of credit, the rate is around 6.5%/a. For 5 years loan, the interest could be ~ $8000 compare to 0% in Canada). In the 5 years term, it costs Cdn$6000 more for a US invoice price model.

Please add all the travel expenses (who know $$$ or $$$$) in your purchase.

Again, sorry for this long email. I just want to show with real number instead of talking. To all members here who are thinking of purchasing a car in US. In both of my case, we save by purchased in Canada (local dealers). If you take my Camry Hybrid case ($2500 more expensive in US) and get a loan from bank and pay 100% cash to US Toyota. The actual cost is even bigger (more expsensive).
Banned
User avatar
Dec 24, 2004
10708 posts
148 upvotes
the travel cost is nothing compared to what you could save by buying a US car from the US.

and for the beginners out there, you can FINANCE a US car too.

(many canadian leasing companies will buy a car from you(then lease it back to you) if it was legitimately imported from the USA)

the fun part is, you have to borrow the money from someone to buy the car first.
[OP]
Deal Addict
User avatar
Feb 28, 2006
1343 posts
148 upvotes
Toronto
There's no denying that some cars (like the Malibu) cost about the same in Canada than in the US. But then again, who wants to drive a Malibu?

Overall, warranty and financing aside, purchasing a NAFTA vehicle in the US comes out significantly cheaper 9 times out of 10.

Have you tried haggling with a Canadian dealer when he knows you're financing? Frankly most Canadian automotive retailers are a decade behind the Americans when it comes to dealing.

Case: I am pricing a Subaru. ALL Canadian dealers I spoke to played the "wadd'ya think it's worth game". The second sentence was the usual trolling to determine how I'd pay. "Whadd'ya lookin' to spend a month" crap.

I contact American Subaru dealers (Can't say what the other guys do) everyone of them tell me, "if you pay cash, I'll let you have it for a driveaway price of...." NO other hidden charges or tricks.

When I bought my last car a few years ago, we agreed on a driveaway price only to have a bunch of other stuff added in. I walked away only to be met in the parking lot with "sorry we miscaculated". Yeah right.
[OP]
Deal Addict
User avatar
Feb 28, 2006
1343 posts
148 upvotes
Toronto
lexus wrote:
Oct 4th, 2006 10:35 am
But it does trade-in less down the road. There is a logic here, maybe it does not impact you at this time. Since everyone in this post are talking about import a new/used car from US. But none of these people are thinking or even talked to Canadian used car manager on resale US import car.).
You forgot to take into account that my depreciation is already roughly 10-20k less than if I bought in Canada. I can buy in the US and flip the car that's less than one year old here and make a profit. There's a dealer in Oakville doing just that. He's routinely in Auto Trader selling new cars.
Sr. Member
Feb 12, 2006
581 posts
25 upvotes
Highlander Limited is $32500 US
$37050 Ca + 6.1% duty (made in Japan)+ GST + BC PST +RIV =
37050 + 2260 + 2223 + 2594 + RIV = 44,127 + RIV

Here in Canada with taxes it's just little over $54,000

Saving of almost 10K

That's good chunk of change!!!!!
Deal Addict
Oct 25, 2005
1821 posts
198 upvotes
North Vancouver
I totally agreed with you, USA market is more competitive than Canada :)
Monsieurmaggot wrote:
Oct 4th, 2006 6:53 pm
There's no denying that some cars (like the Malibu) cost about the same in Canada than in the US. But then again, who wants to drive a Malibu?

Overall, warranty and financing aside, purchasing a NAFTA vehicle in the US comes out significantly cheaper 9 times out of 10.

Have you tried haggling with a Canadian dealer when he knows you're financing? Frankly most Canadian automotive retailers are a decade behind the Americans when it comes to dealing.

Case: I am pricing a Subaru. ALL Canadian dealers I spoke to played the "wadd'ya think it's worth game". The second sentence was the usual trolling to determine how I'd pay. "Whadd'ya lookin' to spend a month" crap.

I contact American Subaru dealers (Can't say what the other guys do) everyone of them tell me, "if you pay cash, I'll let you have it for a driveaway price of...." NO other hidden charges or tricks.

When I bought my last car a few years ago, we agreed on a driveaway price only to have a bunch of other stuff added in. I walked away only to be met in the parking lot with "sorry we miscaculated". Yeah right.
Sr. Member
Mar 27, 2006
851 posts
118 upvotes
I mentioned it earlier, it is true...not every car is going to be a deal...esp if you have to pay duty....

However, with full warranty, the Subaru I bought was a steal. I paid $28600 Canadian....no other hidden fees, plus my GST and PST and RIV fee....came to about $33,000 on the road (blame our 10%PST in PEI) for a 2006 Subaru Tribeca with 7 passenger seating, leather, Navigation etc etc. The car was one of 2 demos and had 12,000 miles on it (clean Carfax). It had 9 months off on its warranty but is in perfect condition.

Now in Canada this vehicle would retail for about $50000 plus freight....$51500. Given it's demo status....lets say $45,000. I paid $28600!!!! Am I happy.....you bet your a$$.
Deal Addict
Oct 25, 2005
1821 posts
198 upvotes
North Vancouver
How do you get for Canadian Hybrid package A is US$28297? I saw around 25K in US website. If you compare for Camry LE and Sienna, difference is a lot.
lexus wrote:
Oct 4th, 2006 10:35 am
First of all, I am just saying the fact here. It may be impact or affect some of you but not everyone.

I totally agree Canadian models are made in US and VV. But it does trade-in less down the road. There is a logic here, maybe it does not impact you at this time. Since everyone in this post are talking about import a new/used car from US. But none of these people are thinking or even talked to Canadian used car manager on resale US import car. This is just individual concept when dealing with used car.

Have you notice a Quebec driven (or out of province) unit will trade-in less because people try to stay away from them.

Another case, if you trade in a decent Toyota unit to Honda dealership. Honda dealership may keep it in their lot and resale it. This case, they may be able to get you a better trade-in value. Otherwise, they will call the wholesaler instead.

If everyone has the cash and pay in full then shopping at US is a good idea but still no always true. There is always 2 sides in every case. And you could be right on in your case. But think about the whole GTA purchase style. The % of paid cash in full is less than the rest. I know there are lot of rich people in GTA but they may not pay in full on automobile because it deprecite.

No self respecting consumer should buy their cars. Honestly, it would not happened and it will never happened. Just like people said VW is no good but have a look around you. There are more TDI than Hybrid on the road.

Here is my real case:
2 months ago when I purchased my 07Camry Hybrid. I checked more than 10 US Toyota stores and none of them will have 1 for me untiil December/Jan07 (of course, they will not sell a NEW one with less than 10 km). Let said even they will, The MSRP of Hybrid = to Canadian Hybrid package A is US$28297. Research said US resident sometimes pay over MSRP to get one, it is that good. From www.edmunds.com, the TMV for the same model shows other people are paying US$30334.

I just pick the lowest number here:
US$28297 + duty (build in Jap) + currency ex + Ontario taxes + RIV fee
= 28297*1.06*1.15(if you are lucky) + taxes + RIV fee
= Cdn$34494 + taxes + RIV fee
Are you still with me here?
The MSRP for Canadian Hybrid Package A is Cdn$31900 + freight + taxes
and Toyota Canada does offers different finance option to help me out (4.9% F vs 4.7% L). How much did I save? By the way, with the APA price, I got a very reasonable discount on the Hybrid thru a GTA dealer. I picked up mine last week and it is great. Even better than our other Lexus.

I noticed a lot of people talk about Subaru in this post. I totally agree it is a good car and company. My brother just got a Forester this year and it is excellent but ...

He paid just less than Cdn$32000 on the road with 0% and 0 down, rust proof, 5 years ext warranty(APA price), paint & fabric protection.
In the States, the same model MSRP is US$24495. The invoice is US$22998. So our calculation show if we pay invoice (just the car) it will probably be ~Cdn30800 (after import). Again even with Home Equity line of credit, the rate is around 6.5%/a. For 5 years loan, the interest could be ~ $8000 compare to 0% in Canada). In the 5 years term, it costs Cdn$6000 more for a US invoice price model.

Please add all the travel expenses (who know $$$ or $$$$) in your purchase.

Again, sorry for this long email. I just want to show with real number instead of talking. To all members here who are thinking of purchasing a car in US. In both of my case, we save by purchased in Canada (local dealers). If you take my Camry Hybrid case ($2500 more expensive in US) and get a loan from bank and pay 100% cash to US Toyota. The actual cost is even bigger (more expsensive).
Deal Expert
Oct 20, 2001
18709 posts
1166 upvotes
ecgz88 wrote:
Oct 4th, 2006 8:02 pm
How do you get for Canadian Hybrid package A is US$28297? I saw around 25K in US website.
US$25900 is the MSRP for the base model, but according to Edmunds.com what others are paying is about $28k.
http://www.edmunds.com/new/2007/toyota/ ... l?action=2

(Unlike in Canada, dealers in the US are allowed to sell above MSRP.)
These folks have taken over RFD, so I'm done here.

Mutu qabla an tamutu
Member
User avatar
Mar 4, 2004
212 posts
4 upvotes
Kingston, Ontario
lexus wrote:
Oct 4th, 2006 10:35 am
I totally agree Canadian models are made in US and VV. But it does trade-in less down the road. There is a logic here, maybe it does not impact you at this time. Since everyone in this post are talking about import a new/used car from US. But none of these people are thinking or even talked to Canadian used car manager on resale US import car. This is just individual concept when dealing with used car.

Have you notice a Quebec driven (or out of province) unit will trade-in less because people try to stay away from them.
I don't want to beat this to death, and I'm not sure that I'm following your argument correctly so please excuse me if I'm not. The reason people are reluctant to buy out-of-province vehicles is because it can be hard or impossible to verify the vehicle's history. I can agree that if a used car is imported from the US for resale in Canada, it may be a hard sell (although I once purchased a Volare station wagon imported from Florida that turned out to be one helluva bargain....but that's another story!). However, what people are talking about here is purchasing a new car in the US for their personal use. When it comes time to sell it, there will be a full, local history available on the vehicle and I honestly don't see how the vehicle's origin in the US will impact on the resale value in any way.
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