Automotive

Yikes! Shocked that my auto usage requires commercial auto insurance!

  • Last Updated:
  • Mar 21st, 2017 9:26 pm
[OP]
Banned
Jan 10, 2016
175 posts
80 upvotes
Newmarket

Yikes! Shocked that my auto usage requires commercial auto insurance!

I go to the US about once a month in my little beat up car to bring back home commercial goods inventory for my little company which I then resell.

I was just getting an insurance quote for my new 2017 CR-V Touring and they asked me about business use which is about 1/3 of my driving, ie the part where I drive to the US. Then I mentioned that I occasionally bring back some inventory. They told me that I need a commercial policy and that if i get in an accident without it my insurance would be invalid because I transport commercial goods occasionally.

I had thought this was covered under business use and now am floored that I need a commercial auto insurance. Of course I'll get it as otherwise I don't have insurance but I am very surprised this is the case. I know many other people who do the same as me and don't have commercial insurance. They'll be screwed if they ever get into an accident even if they are not transporting commercial goods at the time.

Can recommend a commercial auto insurance broker?
Last edited by JKrioo on Mar 20th, 2017 2:41 pm, edited 2 times in total.
42 replies
Penalty Box
Apr 5, 2013
2731 posts
565 upvotes
markham
JKrioo wrote:
Mar 20th, 2017 2:41 pm
I go to the US about once a month in my little beat up car to bring back home commercial goods inventory for my little company which I then resell.

I was just getting an insurance quote for my new 2017 CR-V Touring and they asked me about business use which is about 1/3 of my driving, ie the part where I drive to the US. Then I mentioned that I occasionally bring back some inventory. They told me that I need a commercial policy and that if i get in an accident without it my insurance would be invalid because I transport commercial goods occasionally.

I had thought this was covered under business use and now am floored that I need a commercial auto insurance. Of course I'll get it as otherwise I don't have insurance but I am very surprised this is the case. I know many other people who do the same as me and don't have commercial insurance. They'll be screwed if they ever get into an accident even if they are not transporting commercial goods at the time.

Can anyone shed any more light on this and/or recommend a commercial auto insurance broker?
i guess you are NOT telling US customs that you are going to the US to shop for your business?..Also you for sure are not telling Canada Border Services that you have purchases for commercial resale...so why bother with the commercial insurance?
[OP]
Banned
Jan 10, 2016
175 posts
80 upvotes
Newmarket
Wow, you sure jump to unfounded, wild and totally ridiculous conclusions don't ya?

First of all, I don't 'shop for my business' when I go to the US. I pick up some inventory from my US warehouse.

Second, when I go to the US I always use the commercial lane and hand them my Department of Homeland Security US Customs & Border Control Form CBP 7533 and pay whatever is owing. Form available here in case you need one: https://www.cbp.gov/document/forms/form ... ehicle-etc

Third, when I return I always use the commercial lane and hand them my Canada Border Services Agency Form B3-3 and pay whatever is required. Form available here in case you need one: http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/publications ... s/b3-3.pdf

So, why bother with the commercial insurance? Let me enlighten you: Otherwise your auto insurance is absolutely totally invalid if you are in an accident while transporting commercial goods. That's why. Sheesh!

My only mistake was thinking that transporting the odd box of inventory once a month or so in my personal vehicle to my Toronto warehouse and never to customers would be covered under the business mileage I always declare to my insurance company when renewing my personal policy.
Deal Addict
May 4, 2014
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Toronto, ON
Well, if it's just "the odd box of inventory" once a month, and the commercial insurance is $$$$$, then just have it shipped back. Problem solved.
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Jul 17, 2008
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I would double and triple inquire into this. Some agents might be clueless. You don't sound to be in need of a commercial insurance.
[OP]
Banned
Jan 10, 2016
175 posts
80 upvotes
Newmarket
er34er34 wrote:
Mar 20th, 2017 3:24 pm
Well, if it's just "the odd box of inventory" once a month, and the commercial insurance is $$$$$, then just have it shipped back. Problem solved.
I've kinda thought this through as I have been doing it for the last year. It's not the 'odd box of inventory' and I have to go there anyway so there would be no point in paying a lot more than the cost of insurance and then have the loss of flexibility doing something I can more easily and efficiently do myself for lower cost. So, your solution is not a good one at all.
[OP]
Banned
Jan 10, 2016
175 posts
80 upvotes
Newmarket
Messerschmitt wrote:
Mar 20th, 2017 3:27 pm
I would double and triple inquire into this. Some agents might be clueless. You don't sound to be in need of a commercial insurance.
I have. I have talked to both the insurance adjuster and the supervisor at the insurance company. I am looking into this further but they both claim that 'commercial delivery' which is an exclusion in writing under the policy and in all personal car insurance policies, applies to any transportation of commercial goods even if it is not to customers but just from one place to another such as from one warehouse to another or even just to your home. This is the case even if you have declared business usage as part of your mileage for the car. It does not invalidate later use of the vehicle when you are not transporting goods for commercial use, so if you are later just out for a drive with the family and you get into an accident you will be covered but if they later or at the time find out about your commercial delivery they will terminate your policy and tell you to get a commercial one. However, that's not the problem. The problem is if you are in an accident while transporting the goods they will deem your insurance invalid and not cover the resulting claim which could be devastating. Anyone who would chance driving without insurance, even if it is once a month, is a fool and I am sure not one.
Penalty Box
Apr 5, 2013
2731 posts
565 upvotes
markham
JKrioo wrote:
Mar 20th, 2017 3:08 pm
Wow, you sure jump to unfounded, wild and totally ridiculous conclusions don't ya?

First of all, I don't 'shop for my business' when I go to the US. I pick up some inventory from my US warehouse.

Second, when I go to the US I always use the commercial lane and hand them my Department of Homeland Security US Customs & Border Control Form CBP 7533 and pay whatever is owing. Form available here in case you need one: https://www.cbp.gov/document/forms/form ... ehicle-etc

Third, when I return I always use the commercial lane and hand them my Canada Border Services Agency Form B3-3 and pay whatever is required. Form available here in case you need one: http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/publications ... s/b3-3.pdf

So, why bother with the commercial insurance? Let me enlighten you: Otherwise your auto insurance is absolutely totally invalid if you are in an accident while transporting commercial goods. That's why. Sheesh!

My only mistake was thinking that transporting the odd box of inventory once a month or so in my personal vehicle to my Toronto warehouse and never to customers would be covered under the business mileage I always declare to my insurance company when renewing my personal policy.

so...what so you pay when you go to us customs, through the commercial lanes?.. what do you pay? where?..just curious?.. also, are you an import broker? or do you have one?...just curious as to the import for business side on canada works?
Deal Fanatic
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Aug 11, 2008
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Burlington
Yes, definately commercial - [removed]
Last edited by Mars2012 on Mar 20th, 2017 4:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: solicitation not permitted
RIBO LICENCED INSURANCE BROKER(ontario) -OVER 30 YRS OF EXPERIENCE
YOUR BEST INSURANCE IS AN INSURANCE BROKER
All the information provided is for reference purposes only. The actual wordings, conditions and exclusions of your policy will apply.
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Dec 2, 2008
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COSMIC5 wrote:
Mar 20th, 2017 4:09 pm
Yes, definately commercial - [removed]
do i need commercial if we picking up someone from airport and the luggage contain commercial goods like pokemon cards??? how does insurance knows the cards are commercial goods???
Last edited by Mars2012 on Mar 20th, 2017 4:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: edit in quote
Deal Fanatic
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no, but if the vehicle is used to pick up goods for a business, then its deemed commercial use, not personal use
qaz393 wrote:
Mar 20th, 2017 4:30 pm
do i need commercial if we picking up someone from airport and the luggage contain commercial goods like pokemon cards??? how does insurance knows the cards are commercial goods???
RIBO LICENCED INSURANCE BROKER(ontario) -OVER 30 YRS OF EXPERIENCE
YOUR BEST INSURANCE IS AN INSURANCE BROKER
All the information provided is for reference purposes only. The actual wordings, conditions and exclusions of your policy will apply.
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Dec 2, 2008
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COSMIC5 wrote:
Mar 20th, 2017 4:36 pm
no, but if the vehicle is used to pick up goods for a business, then its deemed commercial use, not personal use
ooo okay. so picking up someone from an airport even if they are carrying commercial good is fine. got it.
[OP]
Banned
Jan 10, 2016
175 posts
80 upvotes
Newmarket
willdacanucker wrote:
Mar 20th, 2017 3:46 pm
You being serious with this snarky and totally uncalled for comment? YOU came on here looking for advice. YOU asked. No one here knows whatever your business is nor the intricacies of whatever it is you are doing. Afaic, you are a snobby and arrogant person looking to sidestep proper protocol and looking for justification doing it. So if a provided solution is not good enough for you, instead of making snarky comments, stfu and figure the issue out on your own. /thread
Because when you ask a question and then immediately get accused of this
cardguy wrote:
Mar 20th, 2017 2:49 pm
i guess you are NOT telling US customs that you are going to the US to shop for your business?..Also you for sure are not telling Canada Border Services that you have purchases for commercial resale...so why bother with the commercial insurance?
My question was not remotely connected to anything about how to cross the border with commercial goods or the 'intricacies' of my business. So when someone like cardguy makes uncalled for, arrogant and wild accusations about how I cross the border he deserves the reply I gave. What part of that do you not understand?

You also might want to point out where I even remotely stated that I was 'looking to sidestep proper protocol and looking for justification doing it'. If you bother to actually read my post which it seems you did not you will see that I was doing the absolute complete opposite of what you are claiming. All I asked was where I could find a commercial auto insurance broker.

Sheesh, You really take the cake for a comment that is as out of place as they ever get!
Last edited by JKrioo on Mar 20th, 2017 4:42 pm, edited 4 times in total.
Deal Fanatic
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Aug 11, 2008
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Burlington
if its a thing that would be continuous and part of your business, then it could be deemed commercial; however, randomly picking up someone who's carrying pokemon cards from the airport does not, imo seem a business.
qaz393 wrote:
Mar 20th, 2017 4:38 pm
ooo okay. so picking up someone from an airport even if they are carrying commercial good is fine. got it.
RIBO LICENCED INSURANCE BROKER(ontario) -OVER 30 YRS OF EXPERIENCE
YOUR BEST INSURANCE IS AN INSURANCE BROKER
All the information provided is for reference purposes only. The actual wordings, conditions and exclusions of your policy will apply.
Deal Addict
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Mar 23, 2008
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Edmonton
The rule of thumb I was given by my broker was if you are writing off your auto expenses as a business expense, you need commercial insurance. Perhaps it's not as straightforward as that, perhaps it's different in different areas...

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