1,000 planned rental units convert to condos in wake of Ontario rent-control expansion

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Mar 8th, 2018 11:55 am

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Jan 8th, 2018 9:00 pm

CarlaC682855 [OP]: Banned; Dec 18, 2017; 49 posts; 30 upvotes

Jan 8th, 2018 9:00 pm

1,000 planned rental units convert to condos in wake of Ontario rent-control expansion

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/na ... e36382681/

Even big landlords don't want to be landlords in Ontario anymore. Sorry good tenants but you're going to be SOL.. Blame the Liberals and bad tenants (not the good ones) who live like pigs because there's too many of them out there and Landlords no rights when you kick the shit out of a place.

Last edited by CarlaC682855 on Jan 8th, 2018 9:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

32 replies

Jan 8th, 2018 9:01 pm

burnt69: Deal Addict; Oct 6, 2015; 2463 posts; 1385 upvotes

Jan 8th, 2018 9:01 pm

Those condo-ized units will mostly end up in the rental pool, so their availability to tenants will be unaffected. The vendor(s) have just chosen to sell them into a condo strata structure, instead of to REITs or other rental investor organizations who may pick up large numbers at the same time.

So not really sure what kind of argument you're trying to make, other than advancing some sort of hatred towards renters.

+10

Jan 8th, 2018 9:13 pm

Piro21: Deal Expert; Nov 15, 2004; 20081 posts; 3953 upvotes; Toronto

Jan 8th, 2018 9:13 pm

CarlaC682855 wrote: ↑ https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/na ... e36382681/

Even big landlords don't want to be landlords in Ontario anymore. Sorry good tenants but you're going to be SOL.. Blame the Liberals and the stupid obtuse tenants that crawl around this forum like cockroaches.

Anymore? You realize there are buildings here built before 1991 that have been rented all along, right? All this new law did was extend the already existing rent control to every building instead of just old buildings.

+1

Jan 8th, 2018 9:24 pm

CarlaC682855 [OP]: Banned; Dec 18, 2017; 49 posts; 30 upvotes

Jan 8th, 2018 9:24 pm

burnt69 wrote: ↑ Those condo-ized units will mostly end up in the rental pool, so their availability to tenants will be unaffected. The vendor(s) have just chosen to sell them into a condo strata structure, instead of to REITs or other rental investor organizations who may pick up large numbers at the same time.

So not really sure what kind of argument you're trying to make, other than advancing some sort of hatred towards renters.

I'm not anti tenant. I get along with all of my tenants. I was referring to the ones found on this forum in other posts.

Jan 8th, 2018 9:28 pm

CarlaC682855 [OP]: Banned; Dec 18, 2017; 49 posts; 30 upvotes

Jan 8th, 2018 9:28 pm

Piro21 wrote: ↑ Anymore? You realize there are buildings here built before 1991 that have been rented all along, right? All this new law did was extend the already existing rent control to every building instead of just old buildings.

Yup, and not anymore they don't want them. If you read the very 1st paragraph:
More than 1,000 planned purpose-built rental units have instead been converted to condominiums in the Greater Toronto Area since Premier Kathleen Wynne's government expanded rent control in the spring, according to a new report that warns the region's rental supply crisis is poised to worsen.

What does that tell you?

Also mentioned:

While the measure was popular among renters, some of whom had received huge monthly increases

That's your fearless leader.
What a great job she does.

+1

Jan 8th, 2018 9:35 pm

burnt69: Deal Addict; Oct 6, 2015; 2463 posts; 1385 upvotes

Jan 8th, 2018 9:35 pm

CarlaC682855 wrote: ↑ Yup, and not anymore they don't want them. If you read the very 1st paragraph:
More than 1,000 planned purpose-built rental units have instead been converted to condominiums in the Greater Toronto Area since Premier Kathleen Wynne's government expanded rent control in the spring, according to a new report that warns the region's rental supply crisis is poised to worsen.

What does that tell you?

It tells me that the author of the article has a pretty significant anti-Kathleen Wynne animus, and is attempting to offer such as an explanation instead of the logical explanation (that higher valuations were achievable in the condo market than in bulk sales of units to institutional investors).

As for rental supply crisis, nothing could be further from the truth. An absolutely amazing amount of new RE has been constructed in the GTA significantly exceeding population growth. Hoarding would be the only reason for any disconnect between supply and demand, as the supply definitely exists.

That's your fearless leader.
What a great job she does.

I don't like Wynne either, but there's a deluge of new housing supply planned for the GTA in addition to the extreme additions of supply over the past decade. The problem at this point is a race to capture currently high prices before they fall even further than the declines seen recently.

+3

Jan 8th, 2018 9:38 pm

CarlaC682855 [OP]: Banned; Dec 18, 2017; 49 posts; 30 upvotes

Jan 8th, 2018 9:38 pm

burnt69 wrote: ↑ It tells me that the author of the article has a pretty significant anti-Kathleen Wynne animus, and is attempting to offer such as an explanation instead of the logical explanation (that higher valuations were achievable in the condo market than in bulk sales of units to institutional investors).

As for rental supply crisis, nothing could be further from the truth. An absolutely amazing amount of new RE has been constructed in the GTA significantly exceeding population growth. Hoarding would be the only reason for any disconnect between supply and demand, as the supply definitely exists.

Yeah, it's constructed for small time landlords to buy and rent out.

Do you not see the point of the article? It's to get the point across that RioCan and Allied Properties do not want to do another rental because of the Liberals.

Jan 8th, 2018 9:42 pm

burnt69: Deal Addict; Oct 6, 2015; 2463 posts; 1385 upvotes

Jan 8th, 2018 9:42 pm

CarlaC682855 wrote: ↑ Do you not see the point of the article? It's to get the point across that RioCan and Allied Properties do not want to do another rental because of the Liberals.

If the vendor can market the units to individual condo buyers, or investors as individual strata units, and achieve a higher valuation than the bid of those (and presumably other) REITs, then they have a duty to their stakeholders to do so.

Its not going to change the final outcome, that of more units delivered to the GTA RE marketplace. Until such time that prices fall beneath the cost of production. Which, given how much of a bubble GTA RE is in, could be at 50-60% discounts of current prices.

Jan 8th, 2018 10:33 pm

Piro21: Deal Expert; Nov 15, 2004; 20081 posts; 3953 upvotes; Toronto

Jan 8th, 2018 10:33 pm

CarlaC682855 wrote: ↑ Yup, and not anymore they don't want them. If you read the very 1st paragraph:
More than 1,000 planned purpose-built rental units have instead been converted to condominiums in the Greater Toronto Area since Premier Kathleen Wynne's government expanded rent control in the spring, according to a new report that warns the region's rental supply crisis is poised to worsen.

What does that tell you?

Also mentioned:

While the measure was popular among renters, some of whom had received huge monthly increases

That's your fearless leader.
What a great job she does.

It tells me someone is trying to make money by selling condos and is using the opportunity to take a shot at the government for protecting people from slumlords.

+1

Jan 8th, 2018 10:41 pm

Rothesay: Sr. Member; Oct 13, 2011; 766 posts; 501 upvotes

Jan 8th, 2018 10:41 pm

burnt69 wrote: ↑ Those condo-ized units will mostly end up in the rental pool, so their availability to tenants will be unaffected. The vendor(s) have just chosen to sell them into a condo strata structure, instead of to REITs or other rental investor organizations who may pick up large numbers at the same time.

So not really sure what kind of argument you're trying to make, other than advancing some sort of hatred towards renters.

I am not sure how many of these units will make it into the rental pool. If most of them makes it there, there would be no need for politician to come out and talk about slapping on a tax for vacant units.

Under the current legislation, if I were a speculator and my exit strategy is to sell the unit in 12 to 18 months, I would rather leave the unit vacant than to rent the unit out. After all the possibility of having to discount the unit because i am not able to provide vacant possession or having to incure cost to clean up after or repair damage caused by the tenant is not a risk I am willing to take.

+4

Jan 8th, 2018 10:49 pm

CarlaC682855 [OP]: Banned; Dec 18, 2017; 49 posts; 30 upvotes

Jan 8th, 2018 10:49 pm

Rothesay wrote: ↑ I am not sure how many of these units will make it into the rental pool. If most of them makes it there, there would be no need for politician to come out and talk about slapping on a tax for vacant units.

Under the current legislation, if I were a speculator and my exit strategy is to sell the unit in 12 to 18 months, I would rather leave the unit vacant than to rent the unit out. After all the possibility of having to discount the unit because i am not able to provide vacant possession or having to incure cost to clean up after or repair damage caused by the tenant is not a risk I am willing to take.

You got that right. I got in years ago and it was profitable. You would have to be out of your mind to want to buy real estate now and rent to to people like some of these forum posters. Stay the hell out.

+3

Jan 8th, 2018 10:51 pm

CarlaC682855 [OP]: Banned; Dec 18, 2017; 49 posts; 30 upvotes

Jan 8th, 2018 10:51 pm

Piro21 wrote: ↑ It tells me someone is trying to make money by selling condos and is using the opportunity to take a shot at the government for protecting people from slumlords.

The slumlords and good landlords would have to be crazy to buy these units to rent out under these legislation's. Therefore no small time landlord to rent to small time you.

+1

Jan 8th, 2018 11:45 pm

burnt69: Deal Addict; Oct 6, 2015; 2463 posts; 1385 upvotes

Jan 8th, 2018 11:45 pm

CarlaC682855 wrote: ↑ The slumlords and good landlords would have to be crazy to buy these units to rent out under these legislation's. Therefore no small time landlord to rent to small time you.

Someone's buying the units. The cost of production is so much less than the present resale.

Jan 9th, 2018 6:27 am

BiegeToyota: Deal Addict; Dec 13, 2016; 4095 posts; 3602 upvotes

Jan 9th, 2018 6:27 am

burnt69 wrote: ↑

As for rental supply crisis, nothing could be further from the truth. An absolutely amazing amount of new RE has been constructed in the GTA significantly exceeding population growth.

Are you trolling?

Jan 9th, 2018 6:59 am

cartfan123: Deal Fanatic; Sep 8, 2007; 9198 posts; 10691 upvotes; Way Out of GTA

Jan 9th, 2018 6:59 am

Piro21 wrote: ↑ It tells me someone is trying to make money by selling condos and is using the opportunity to take a shot at the government for protecting people from slumlords.

Oh really that’s how you twist it? When a company closes up shop here in Ontario that also just a shot at Wayne too?

Anyways enjoy your rent increases and lack of supply when looking for your next place. You voted for it.

+4

Jan 9th, 2018 8:31 am

Silver1234: Banned; Jul 8, 2017; 628 posts; 699 upvotes; NA

Jan 9th, 2018 8:31 am

cartfan123 wrote: ↑ Oh really that’s how you twist it? When a company closes up shop here in Ontario that also just a shot at Wayne too?

Anyways enjoy your rent increases and lack of supply when looking for your next place. You voted for it.

Rent increase is so good for the economy, I will vote for Wayne again.

+1

Jan 9th, 2018 12:41 pm

burnt69: Deal Addict; Oct 6, 2015; 2463 posts; 1385 upvotes

Jan 9th, 2018 12:41 pm

BiegeToyota wrote: ↑ Are you trolling?

Nope. Not at all. Oceans of new condos brought to market in the GTA as well as RE of all kinds in the suburbs. That's why prices have stagnated and are now falling.

Jan 9th, 2018 1:10 pm

asa1973: Deal Addict; Jan 20, 2016; 2028 posts; 1012 upvotes; Houston, TX

Jan 9th, 2018 1:10 pm

burnt69 wrote: ↑ Nope. Not at all. Oceans of new condos brought to market in the GTA as well as RE of all kinds in the suburbs. That's why prices have stagnated and are now falling.

Rental building and condos are two different things. Condos at first hand designed to be owned. Yes, part of them would be rented if they been bought as rental property, but not 100%.
In Burlington they build 2 or 3 buildings over last 5y, maybe 300 or 400 units total, for 180k city, lol.

Regarding new RENTALS buildings - you could use one or two hand count them on last 5y built in Toronto. Not saying about ZERO new townhouse complexes (imo the latest we have been built in 80s).
So your statement is not true actually.

If you want too see "ocean of new rentals built" you have to go to another place, for example to Houston area where they DO built a lot of apartments, townhouses for rent. Funny, but they do not have rent control and liberals at sterm. Coincidence?

Make the face great again

Jan 9th, 2018 1:38 pm

Piro21: Deal Expert; Nov 15, 2004; 20081 posts; 3953 upvotes; Toronto

Jan 9th, 2018 1:38 pm

cartfan123 wrote: ↑Anyways enjoy your rent increases and lack of supply when looking for your next place. You voted for it.

"Enjoy your rent increase that would have happened anyway after your first year without this law! I hope you're happy the government made it so you can find a place and move in at an agreed price instead of getting gouged by double-digit percentage rent increases every year with no protections! Having to move unexpectedly to another place that's going to **** you over the same way is how I like to live!"

asa1973 wrote: ↑ Rental building and condos are two different things. Condos at first hand designed to be owned. Yes, part of them would be rented if they been bought as rental property, but not 100%.
In Burlington they build 2 or 3 buildings over last 5y, maybe 300 or 400 units total, for 180k city, lol.

Regarding new RENTALS buildings - you could use one or two hand count them on last 5y built in Toronto. Not saying about ZERO new townhouse complexes (imo the latest we have been built in 80s).
So your statement is not true actually.

If you want too see "ocean of new rentals built" you have to go to another place, for example to Houston area where they DO built a lot of apartments, townhouses for rent. Funny, but they do not have rent control and liberals at sterm. Coincidence?

Offhand, how many rental buildings were built in the last 26 years since rent control was stopped on new buildings? Every rental building I know of was built well before 1990. I only know of one rental building built after the 70s in this city, and the only reason it is a rental is because the condo company that was building it couldn't sell enough units.

Since everyone here is selling this fiction of purpose-built rentals stopping due to the extension of the rent control laws, can you all show me the flood of purpose-built rentals that were built in the golden times from 1991-2017 when rent control didn't apply and landlords could increase rent by whatever they felt like?

Jan 9th, 2018 2:01 pm

burnt69: Deal Addict; Oct 6, 2015; 2463 posts; 1385 upvotes

Jan 9th, 2018 2:01 pm

asa1973 wrote: ↑ Rental building and condos are two different things.

No they aren't. "Condo" refers to a specific legal structure of ownership, but condos are routinely and very frequently rented by their owners.

Condos at first hand designed to be owned.

All units are designed to be owned. Condos and entirely owned and rented buildings are indistinguishable in many cases. Perhaps you're just confused.

Regarding new RENTALS buildings - you could use one or two hand count them on last 5y built in Toronto. Not saying about ZERO new townhouse complexes (imo the latest we have been built in 80s).

Absolutely not true. Large numbers of rental units have been delivered into the GTA marketplace, particularly downtown. The legal structure of ownership is of no concern to a renting tenant.

If you want too see "ocean of new rentals built" you have to go to another place, for example to Houston area where they DO built a lot of apartments, townhouses for rent. Funny, but they do not have rent control and liberals at sterm. Coincidence?

Massive amounts of new rental supply has been built in the GTA. This is a fact. Which is why renting is remarkably accessible and affordable, even in some of the newest developments. You can rent a unit for an implied cap rate of under 4%, which is an extraordinary circumstance which has probably never existed before in Toronto's entire history.

+1

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