Real Estate

199 Church St - Centrecourt

  • Last Updated:
  • Aug 29th, 2020 11:43 am
Tags:
Sr. Member
Nov 22, 2017
946 posts
701 upvotes
JayLove06 wrote: No it isn’t. Area is in the middle of gentrification. The area has already started changing for the better. If it was a great area the now price would be 20% higher. Jarvis and Dundas used to be absolutely terrible. 5 condos later it’s a whole different corner. There are shelters all over the place. That doesn’t stop million dollar valuations.

I don’t see the point in investing in areas that have already been gentrified and having all of that already baked into the price. $1700/ft is ridiculous for a nice area. We aren’t even talking luxury. We’re tslking run of the mill here.
You are correct, the area is getting better than it used to be. I think the current valuation is too high. I look at alot of condos with a 5 to 10 year timeline. I don't see the city gentrifying their shelters within that timeline. If one is investing in this area because of student rents i would look elsewhere in other university towns. The only positives here are proximity to subway and eaton centre.
Deal Addict
Jan 9, 2010
2610 posts
2364 upvotes
Extrahard wrote: You are correct, the area is getting better than it used to be. I think the current valuation is too high. I look at alot of condos with a 5 to 10 year timeline. I don't see the city gentrifying their shelters within that timeline. If one is investing in this area because of student rents i would look elsewhere in other university towns. The only positives here are proximity to subway and eaton centre.
$1300-$1400 psf in core downtown for a precon Toronto literally next to the subway is considered "reasonable" already when you have precon West of Yonge in the core at $1500-1600 psf, King West at $1700-1800 psf, Yorkville at $2300+ psf, and Mississauga at $1000+ psf and they're all selling. It's all relative.

It's not just about the student rent, it's about being in the downtown core and its proximity to the subway line which gives you access to a greater tenant pool and lifestyle choices. You can't compare the downtown core with university towns like Hamilton, Kitchener etc which derive their value entirely on being a university town.

The area is getting better with all the new condos going up and slowly gentrifying. Just three years ago precon in this area was going for sub $900 psf. .
Last edited by moofur on Jul 12th, 2020 10:06 am, edited 3 times in total.
Deal Expert
User avatar
Feb 11, 2009
19411 posts
8111 upvotes
Toronto
Shaun80 wrote:
I never play with options ie wsb which I agree is a gamble and can result in financial ruin . My 5 year returns are simply from buying and holding mainly large cap stocks and ETFs . Buffet and brk have underperformed the S and P 500 for 11 years , he has admitted he does not understand tech , bought and sold his airline shares at a loss this spring , did not participate in the recent 50 percent equity rally and just sat on cash . His investing track record has been far from stellar over the past decade so I am not sure why you are supporting your market timing argument with Buffet . Retail investors have little impact on the market the smart money you describe or market movers are institutional investors and hedge funds who trade on news instantaneously with their algos and bots . My entire point is that the stock market particularly tech long term (even at a slower pace of growth as compared to the previous decade ) will provide more lucrative returns then real estate . I could be wrong I hope both both sectors explode as I own three properties 2 detached houses and 1 condo downtown in Toronto , however I am personally hedging toward stocks .
Let me put it this way, Tech does not understand Tech at this point. IF you invested in Tesla last March, you can claim you're a millionaire. Hell, if I kept my shares, I'd be somewhere in Hawaii right now not on these forums. I had a massive TSLA position which I sold at $420/share in December 2019. To me, after that point is when FOMO/Robinhood investors hopped on board and the stock kept pumping higher based on emotions. If I had held today, my equity would be nearly 4x what I sold in December.

Those who understand the markets are the ones who are losing in the current markets. History doesn't predict the future with the Stock Market. Just because it's provided better returns than Real Estate while the bubble kept getting bigger doesn't mean it will continue to do so.

Anyways back on point...
Extrahard wrote:

RE has been irrational too!

Anyways back on topic, this is a terrible area right now, homeless people galore right next to Ryerson University. I don't see how this is an investment property when you have so much competition for student housings from condos going up all over the vicinity, not to mention Ryerson just finished building their residence on Church, south of Dundas. By the way the area won't be fixed until they get rid of all the missionaries and homeless shelters from Jarvis and Sherborne.
Yes and no. COVID had a moderate impact on Real Estate because no one really lost their jobs. Those who did continued to get paid a significant amount from CERB, etc. Unlike the 09 financial crisis that's what kept the markets stable.

Of course if you compare it to the Stock Market 40% march drop, yes, but thats because the Stock Markets essentially trade on Real Time data, and are highly liquid which is why that 40% drop lasted all but a week.

Real Estate always is a lagging indicator, as you can't just press a button and sell to the highest bidder, people digest things longer etc. and so rather than having a sharp drop and a sharp recovery, you see a small drop and stabalizing prices.
Shaun80 wrote:
Why stop at one million in stocks? They are far more liquid then real estate and can provide maintenance and hassle free income (dividends ) in retirement . Canadian dividends also receive preferential tax treatment.
You can grow it to whatever you want really, $1M is the lucky number as any reasonable person would essentially be able to live off the dividends alone, assuming you've been accumulating and the dividends have been increasing since your original purchase etc.
Realtor - Investment Properties
[OP]
Deal Fanatic
Dec 20, 2018
7753 posts
6950 upvotes
Shaun80 wrote: Agree about the irrational comment the DOW fell 40 percent in March when the economic lockdown was announced , don't recall the same thing happening with Toronto real estate. I am thankful it didn't as a real estate investor but it shows both sectors can irrational .
Yup...like how it took tech heavy NASDAQ 12 years to regain lost ground from the dotcom bubble crash and how it fell 78% in a year

Pretty much anyone has made money in stock market over past 10 years let alone last 5, but that's not really long term . Same with RE appreciation.

Hence the need to diversify, you don't want to be holding majority tech stocks if it goes through another dotcom bubble burst and takes over a decade to recoup lost ground or be down 78% at any point. I mean, how prepared are you for a 78% drop in your tech stocks and are you okay with potentially over a decade to recover ?

But to this project, I like it doesn't have balcony though understand it is negative to some. Balcony is negative to me due to high costs for maintenance and repair in reserve funds and overall fire hazard and unsightly storage.

$1200ish for subway access right downtown is decent value and a hedge against decline in RE in that proximity to subway will always be desirable
Sr. Member
Oct 21, 2016
946 posts
718 upvotes
StatsGuy wrote:
Yup...like how it took tech heavy NASDAQ 12 years to regain lost ground from the dotcom bubble crash and how it fell 78% in a year

Pretty much anyone has made money in stock market over past 10 years let alone last 5, but that's not really long term . Same with RE appreciation.

Hence the need to diversify, you don't want to be holding majority tech stocks if it goes through another dotcom bubble burst and takes over a decade to recoup lost ground or be down 78% at any point. I mean, how prepared are you for a 78% drop in your tech stocks and are you okay with potentially over a decade to recover ?

But to this project, I like it doesn't have balcony though understand it is negative to some. Balcony is negative to me due to high costs for maintenance and repair in reserve funds and overall fire hazard and unsightly storage.

$1200ish for subway access right downtown is decent value and a hedge against decline in RE in that proximity to subway will always be desirable
If 50 percent plus of your portfolio was diversified in the TSX , emerging , developed markets or gold over the last 5 to 10 you would have made many fold less then a portfolio hedged toward US equities particulary tech . There is a big difference having a portfolio that returned 150 to 200 percent vs 30 to 50 percent over the last 5 years Similar to gains for those who invested in Toronto or Vancouver real estate a decade ago as compared to other parts of Canada . Hindsight yes chalk up to due diligence or if you want good luck. In terms of the future anything can happen to Toronto realestate or the technology equity sector (up down sideways no one knows ) you do your DD make a plan stocks with it long-term and then hope for the best .
Deal Addict
Jan 9, 2010
2610 posts
2364 upvotes
Shaun80 wrote: If 50 percent plus of your portfolio was diversified in the TSX , emerging , developed markets or gold over the last 5 to 10 you would have made many fold less then a portfolio hedged toward US equities particulary tech . There is a big difference having a portfolio that returned 150 to 200 percent vs 30 to 50 percent over the last 5 years Similar to gains for those who invested in Toronto or Vancouver real estate a decade ago as compared to other parts of Canada . Hindsight yes chalk up to due diligence or if you want good luck
The point is that in the long run for 99% of people a well balanced diversified portfolio will give greater returns in the long run and be able to weather any market downturns. That's not even debatable.

By your logic I could've used that money and made even higher returns at the casino if I was a good poker player. That doesn't mean that that strategy is sound advice for 99% of people. You just so happened to have made really high returns in a very short investment window through a combination of luck, due diligence and probably investment skill. That doesn't mean that putting all your eggs in one basket is sound investment advice and that's what everyone else is trying to tell you. You seem to be focused on flexing though.

That being said let's get back on topic shall we?
Sr. Member
Oct 21, 2016
946 posts
718 upvotes
moofur wrote:
The point is that in the long run for 99% of people a well balanced diversified portfolio will give greater returns in the long run and be able to weather any market downturns. That's not even debatable.

By your logic I could've used that money and made even higher returns at the casino if I was a good poker player. That doesn't mean that that strategy is sound advice for 99% of people. You just so happened to have made really high returns in a very short investment window through a combination of luck, due diligence and probably investment skill. That doesn't mean that putting all your eggs in one basket is sound investment advice and that's what everyone else is trying to tell you. You seem to be focused on flexing though.

That being said let's get back on topic shall we?
So why not diversify your real estate holding all over Canada or better yet the world to mitigate risk and improve returns , why concentrate on one tiny geographic area. Global REITs are available People who invested in Toronto and Vancouver real estate over last decade hit the jackpot (like your casino analogy ) rest of Canada not as lucky . Thankfully I hit the jackpot twice according to you with Toronto real estate and US tech stocks , no due diligence just great luck lol .
Last edited by Shaun80 on Jul 12th, 2020 2:07 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Deal Addict
Jan 9, 2010
2610 posts
2364 upvotes
Shaun80 wrote: So why not diversify your real estate holding all over Canada or better yet the world to mitigate risk and improve returns , why concentrate in one concentrated tiny geographic area. People invested in Toronto and Vancouver last decade hit the jackpot at the real estate casino rest of Canada not as lucky . Thankfully I hit the jackpot twice according to you Toronto real estate and US tech stocks no due diligence just great luck ..
If people have the capacity to do that they would. Unfortunately most people don't have the capital to do so and the barrier to entry is high to invest in real estate since it takes quite a bit of capital and ability to borrow.

I never said what you did was pure luck. All I said is that it's not sound investment advice for 99% of people.
Sr. Member
Oct 21, 2016
946 posts
718 upvotes
moofur wrote:
If people have the capacity to do that they would. Unfortunately most people don't have the capital to do so and the barrier to entry is high to invest in real estate since it takes quite a bit of capital and ability to borrow.

I never said what you did was pure luck. All I said is that it's not sound investment advice for 99% of people.
Concentration generally improves returns but increases risk , diversification mitigates risk however it can also drastically hamper returns . I prefer to do my DD and concentrate my wealth long term in asset classes and sectors i feel will deliver me optimal returns long term ie Toronto realestate and US tech stocks . My hedge may be wrong and could be detrimental to my financial future , but that is the risk I am willing to take .
Last edited by Shaun80 on Jul 12th, 2020 4:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Deal Addict
User avatar
Dec 16, 2015
4140 posts
4033 upvotes
Toronto
Shaun80 wrote:
To each their own I'm long US tech, it's not a short term investment for me. Been in the game 5 years now . I can handle volatility March did not bother me , my portfolio dropped 35 percent (bought more on sale ) . The potential for growth in this sector (compared to the broader US market ) over the next two decades in large , mid and small caps is a hedge I am more then willing to make. Currently own 10 tech stocks and 7 tech ETFs so it is diversified over the sector . I was up 55k last month alone ,also there is nothing wrong with taking some profits along the way and buying oppurtunistically .


portfolio2.jpg
How old are you?? Do you have RE too? Whats ur job and income?

If only i sold my dt condo and put it all in tqqq at march
To the moon
Sr. Member
Jan 27, 2018
534 posts
523 upvotes
Shaun80 wrote: Agree about the irrational comment the DOW fell 40 percent in March when the economic lockdown was announced , don't recall the same thing happening with Toronto real estate. I am thankful it didn't as a real estate investor but it shows both sectors can irrational .
I am pretty sure some folks probably peed and soiled their pants/skirts when the tanking was in progress during market hours... Specially when the oil futures turned negative 30+ lol
[OP]
Deal Fanatic
Dec 20, 2018
7753 posts
6950 upvotes
Price list released and deposit structure as well
Screenshot_20200715-214819_Dropbox.jpg
Screenshot_20200715-214747_Chrome.jpg
Deal Expert
Feb 29, 2008
19416 posts
17901 upvotes
Tarrana & The Ri…
Typical Centercourt with the investor shoeboxes.
Deal Fanatic
Mar 27, 2004
8091 posts
6133 upvotes
Toronto
thats way too expensive..and the deposit structure isn't good either.
15% in 370 days.
Full-time Realtor
Sr. Member
Jul 7, 2019
790 posts
652 upvotes
1470/sf for East of Yonge.
Is this selling well so far?
Deal Addict
User avatar
Nov 5, 2018
2916 posts
5209 upvotes
Toronto
oasis100 wrote: thats way too expensive..and the deposit structure isn't good either.
15% in 370 days.
It’s as expensive as I thought it would be. I said before that those 420 amazing floorplans will be 600K, and it’s even more than that at 620K.

Deposit structure isn’t as good as the Tailor, Distrikt, and Westport.

BUT, I bet this sells out in a week. Everyone is scrambling for precons right now. A lot of buyers will not even look at the price per square foot and will just buy on low ticket price. Fully approved and good location. Wouldn’t touch it, but there is a lot of hype behind this one.
Called the bottom.
Deal Addict
User avatar
Nov 5, 2018
2916 posts
5209 upvotes
Toronto
If I was going to buy, I’d go for the 623 sqf 2B/2B or the 615 sqf 2B/2B floorplans. They aren’t as bad on a p/sqf basis, decent floorplans, and the ticket price is decent for a 2B/2B
Called the bottom.
Deal Expert
Feb 29, 2008
19416 posts
17901 upvotes
Tarrana & The Ri…
Prices are high but location is 2 blocks away from eatin Center and subway. Immediate location is gentrifying at a quick clip. I dislike shoebox investor buildings but centercourt will at least do a good job.
Deal Addict
User avatar
Nov 5, 2018
2916 posts
5209 upvotes
Toronto
JayLove06 wrote: Prices are high but location is 2 blocks away from eatin Center and subway. Immediate location is gentrifying at a quick clip. I dislike shoebox investor buildings but centercourt will at least do a good job.
I like everything about it. But as a cash flow investor I’ve restricted myself to under $1,200K and even then the past two projects I’ve bought have been under 1K a foot. Especially with rents going down now, my model can’t make this one work.
Called the bottom.
Deal Addict
Jan 9, 2010
2610 posts
2364 upvotes
I can imagine that the hype around this is insane given all the bombardment of information that I've gotten leading up to the release date of this project through various social media channels and email, and it's still coming. Floor plans seem efficient but the sizes of the 2 bedrooms are crazy...

Top

Thread Information

There is currently 1 user viewing this thread. (0 members and 1 guest)