Automotive

Adjuster or police determine who is at fault in the accident?

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  • Jul 14th, 2016 11:38 am
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Deal Guru
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Mar 23, 2008
11502 posts
7791 upvotes
Edmonton
motomondo wrote: Also... change lanes carefully!
The car that changes lanes is always at fault... the car that is traveling straight within the lane is never at fault.... for the convenience of the adjuster!!!

Quote from https://www.ontario.ca/laws/regulation/900668 :

"If the incident occurs when automobile “B” is changing lanes, the driver of automobile “A” is not at fault and the driver of automobile “B” is 100 per cent at fault for the incident."

Image

"Diagram containing three types of collisions.
  • In the first type, automobile “B” has moved toward automobile “A” and the front passenger side strikes the driver side of automobile “A”.
  • In the second type, automobile “A” is driving in the lane between automobile “B” and a central island or centre of the road. Automobile “B” is changing lanes in front of automobile “A” and the front driver side has struck the front passenger side of automobile “A” in the lane that automobile “A” was in.
  • In the third type, automobile “B” has moved toward automobile “A” and the passenger side of “B” has struck the in driver side front of automobile “A”.
This text alternative is provided for convenience only and does not form part of the official law."
But this doesn't explain who's at fault when BOTH drivers are changing lanes...

C
Deal Addict
May 18, 2005
3412 posts
355 upvotes
The adjuster normally reads the policy report which will impact their decision who's at fault.
Deal Addict
May 18, 2005
3412 posts
355 upvotes
That picture doesn't really prove anything. You could draw a picture differently showing the possible same damage on both cars while car A is the one making lane change.
Deal Addict
Feb 20, 2014
1227 posts
434 upvotes
Toronto
Don't bother with changing your statement, it does nothing to benefit you, you're just going to waste your time. Sounds like you're fighting for 50/50 fault right now but it makes no difference because you'll still be dinged by your insurance. Let it go and chalk it up as a lesson learned. Be more careful when you're changing lanes next time. The fact that you don't even know where the other car was is worrisome because it shows you weren't aware of your surroundings whatsoever.
[OP]
Deal Fanatic
Jun 7, 2005
8787 posts
651 upvotes
A side question, do both side of the adjusters discuss the incident and come to the agreement ? I assume they won't fight on behalf their insurance company/client as the insurance law here has your own insurance company pays for the repair bill regardless who's fault, right?
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Mar 7, 2007
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CNeufeld wrote: But this doesn't explain who's at fault when BOTH drivers are changing lanes...

C
That's 50% - 50% as per the link I posted, but it is not spelled clearly - I think they leave it to the judgement of the adjuster.
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Mar 7, 2007
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rdx wrote: Believe or not, damage photos on both cars show exactly as on the third diagram on the very right. But I am the CAR A though as the damage is on my front bumper and the damage on the other car is exactly like on CAR B, on the right fender.

Seriously, should I bring this photo to the collision center and correct my statement ? Or it is too late ? Does anyone have any experience changing statement and ended up with revised verdict ? Appreciate any help.

IMO There's no point in changing your statement at the collision centre. Talk to the adjuster, refer him to the diagram, maybe he will change his mind.

You need to understand that the two things are connected, but at the same time they are totally separate: cops are one thing, the adjuster is another independent entity. If the adjuster says you are 100% at fault, and you think he made a mistake, you could try to complain to the insurance company, all the way to the ombudsman. Good luck.
Sr. Member
Sep 19, 2009
640 posts
516 upvotes
Ottawa
rdx wrote: I wish there is a public camera or someone's car DVR got the video of the whole incident.

But I guess even if there is a city camera there, it won't allow us to access for this minor accident case.
If you are really adamant that you are not at fault and you are willing to put in the time, there is a chance you could be able to get video of the crash. I turned left onto a main street a while back and the back of my work vehicle got clipped by a guy driving his newly purchased BMW. I was given a ticket but I have a feeling the officer knew I wasn't really at fault as when I went in on my court date to fight it, it got thrown out before I even sat down to show my evidence. Which evidence you ask? When I got home, I searched for traffic cams and luckily for me, there was one a couple of blocks from the intersection with a clear view of the BMW striking my vehicle. It showed him driving at close to 100 km/h in a 40 and he was a block away behind a turning vehicle when i started my left turn. He then proceeded to drive behind a couple of parked cars and then back on the street before ramming my van. I'm not sure what city you are in, but for Ottawa, I was able to find a list of traffic cams here:

http://traffic.ottawa.ca/map/intersections

I then filed a request for access to information (cost of $5). I asked for the traffic cam footage for a 1/2 hour block around the time of the accident.

http://ottawa.ca/en/city-hall/your-city ... nd-privacy

They got back to me a week later with a price of $10 to burn the footage onto a CD, which I paid for by check.

1 week later...evidence...
[OP]
Deal Fanatic
Jun 7, 2005
8787 posts
651 upvotes
chukurific wrote: If you are really adamant that you are not at fault and you are willing to put in the time, there is a chance you could be able to get video of the crash. I turned left onto a main street a while back and the back of my work vehicle got clipped by a guy driving his newly purchased BMW. I was given a ticket but I have a feeling the officer knew I wasn't really at fault as when I went in on my court date to fight it, it got thrown out before I even sat down to show my evidence. Which evidence you ask? When I got home, I searched for traffic cams and luckily for me, there was one a couple of blocks from the intersection with a clear view of the BMW striking my vehicle. It showed him driving at close to 100 km/h in a 40 and he was a block away behind a turning vehicle when i started my left turn. He then proceeded to drive behind a couple of parked cars and then back on the street before ramming my van. I'm not sure what city you are in, but for Ottawa, I was able to find a list of traffic cams here:

http://traffic.ottawa.ca/map/intersections

I then filed a request for access to information (cost of $5). I asked for the traffic cam footage for a 1/2 hour block around the time of the accident.

http://ottawa.ca/en/city-hall/your-city ... nd-privacy

They got back to me a week later with a price of $10 to burn the footage onto a CD, which I paid for by check.

1 week later...evidence...
Thank you. I was looking for information like this. I notice you are in Ottawa. I wonder if I can contact the city of Toronto where my accident was, and ask them to provide video clip of the intersection. I don't know which department I should contact. Does anyone know anything about this ? Appreciate any help !
[OP]
Deal Fanatic
Jun 7, 2005
8787 posts
651 upvotes
I googled and found this site. I think camera 8087 could capture the accident. However, the site does not say if/how we can get a copy of the video clip........

http://www1.toronto.ca/wps/portal/conte ... amera=true
chukurific wrote: If you are really adamant that you are not at fault and you are willing to put in the time, there is a chance you could be able to get video of the crash. I turned left onto a main street a while back and the back of my work vehicle got clipped by a guy driving his newly purchased BMW. I was given a ticket but I have a feeling the officer knew I wasn't really at fault as when I went in on my court date to fight it, it got thrown out before I even sat down to show my evidence. Which evidence you ask? When I got home, I searched for traffic cams and luckily for me, there was one a couple of blocks from the intersection with a clear view of the BMW striking my vehicle. It showed him driving at close to 100 km/h in a 40 and he was a block away behind a turning vehicle when i started my left turn. He then proceeded to drive behind a couple of parked cars and then back on the street before ramming my van. I'm not sure what city you are in, but for Ottawa, I was able to find a list of traffic cams here:

http://traffic.ottawa.ca/map/intersections

I then filed a request for access to information (cost of $5). I asked for the traffic cam footage for a 1/2 hour block around the time of the accident.

http://ottawa.ca/en/city-hall/your-city ... nd-privacy

They got back to me a week later with a price of $10 to burn the footage onto a CD, which I paid for by check.

1 week later...evidence...
Deal Addict
Oct 13, 2014
2046 posts
1303 upvotes
Just Moved To Somewh…
rdx wrote: Actually, the first point of impact was not even the front bumper of my car, it was actually at the hinge of my left front door and left fender, with the very light scratch. I remember the other vehicle slightly hits me there and move forward to the next impact in the front which caused my bumper to come off. That means at one point our cars were parallel with the light contact. That's what makes me think the other car was not directly behind me, but was beside me on the very left lane but trying to move to the center where the accident was.
OR the other car was in their lane going faster than you when you changed into their lane. Their forward momentum caused further damage to the front of your vehicle as they swerved to the left to avoid compounding the damage but still managed to rip your bumper off.
Sr. Member
Sep 19, 2009
640 posts
516 upvotes
Ottawa
rdx wrote: Thank you. I was looking for information like this. I notice you are in Ottawa. I wonder if I can contact the city of Toronto where my accident was, and ask them to provide video clip of the intersection. I don't know which department I should contact. Does anyone know anything about this ? Appreciate any help !
Sorry I can't help you directly,but all the info you need should be here:
http://www1.toronto.ca/wps/portal/conte ... d60f89RCRD

More specifically, here:

http://www1.toronto.ca/wps/portal/conte ... d60f89RCRD
[OP]
Deal Fanatic
Jun 7, 2005
8787 posts
651 upvotes
chukurific wrote: Sorry I can't help you directly,but all the info you need should be here:
http://www1.toronto.ca/wps/portal/conte ... d60f89RCRD

More specifically, here:

http://www1.toronto.ca/wps/portal/conte ... d60f89RCRD
I just clicked on the link you sent me (below), there is only one blank field to fill out my request, do I basically just tell them what Camera at what intersection, date and time ? By the way, according to the site below showing all public camera in Toronto, each camera has a number, I assume I can reference my request with that. When I click on the camera, it shows "Looking North", "Looking East", "Looking South" and "Looking West". Do I need to specify ? Or they will send me all ? You mention you paid another $5 to burn a CD. Do they originally send you a file ? Or you have to go to City Hall to pick up a CD ? Thanks again for your help

https://foi.toronto.ca/POSWeb/POSIte...sitemkey=10283

Site showing all cameras in Toronto
http://www1.toronto.ca/wps/portal/co...RD&camera=true

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