Home & Garden

Advice from electrician please

  • Last Updated:
  • Jan 5th, 2017 9:56 pm
[OP]
Member
User avatar
Jun 2, 2008
257 posts
74 upvotes
Toronto

Advice from electrician please

Hi, does anyone know if this is up to code as per ESA.

Essentially there are two bond wires. One is screwed to the box and the other is twisted in the middle leading to the device.

I'm having trouble figuring out how to use a connector to secure the twisted wire.

I'm thinking the only option is to un twist the bond wires and screw it to the box.

Anyone professionals that can shed some light please
Images
  • 20170105_164640.jpg
  • 20170105_164636.jpg
  • 20170105_143542.jpg
  • 20170105_143516.jpg
Yes!!! I have a stupid user name. It's a Counter Strike alias from 10 years ago lol πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚
23 replies
Member
Jul 14, 2012
331 posts
142 upvotes
Hamilton
You clearly don't know what you're doing...for your own safety put it back the way it was, and call an electrician.


Failing that, do a whole lot of reading BEFORE you touch anything.
"...I started playing porn REALLY loud with speakers facing my back yard. The kids stopped going out back after the parents heard that." - TheGreatGazoo
Deal Addict
Jan 5, 2003
4758 posts
4469 upvotes
Toronto
Sorry, but I don't understand your question/issue. And aren't the photos of two different switches?

When you say "twisted", do you mean that the visible wires are all over the place and messy, or are you talking about connecting two wires by twisting the ends and then securing with the yellow wire connector? When you say "twisted" and "connector", the latter is what electricians will think of, but I think you mean the former meaning.

If you mean the wires are messy, that's normal. You just fold/bend them back into the box but try to make minimal folds.
Deal Addict
Mar 12, 2006
1128 posts
23 upvotes
What exactly are you trying to accomplish by removing the bonding wire? This method of bonding is common practice albeit improper and potentially dangerous. The correct way to do this would be to bond the source or "feed" to the box and make a joint with the load or "downstream" bond along with a tail (in this case number 12 bare) The tail will then go to the grounding screw.

You should have three bare number 12 wires under the marrett.
[OP]
Member
User avatar
Jun 2, 2008
257 posts
74 upvotes
Toronto
I had an ESA inspection and the report said "numerous light switch and receptacles boxes contain bond connectors that are twisted together, but not secured with wire connector or termination screw to the back of the box".

Essentially what I have to so is simple. I have to ensure that the bond wires are either twisted together with a connector or screwed to the box. As they are just twisted together now. But it's a continuous connection.

The problem I'm having is determine which one is fine and which receptacle is not up to code.

I have a permit to do work from ESA as a home owner.
Yes!!! I have a stupid user name. It's a Counter Strike alias from 10 years ago lol πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚
[OP]
Member
User avatar
Jun 2, 2008
257 posts
74 upvotes
Toronto
Exactly the way it is now is improper that's why they advised me to fix it to retrofit my house.

So I have to connect the bond wires to the box instead of connectors? I have some scenarios with 2 wires and some with 3.
baouong wrote: ↑ What exactly are you trying to accomplish by removing the bonding wire? This method of bonding is common practice albeit improper and potentially dangerous. The correct way to do this would be to bond the source or "feed" to the box and make a joint with the load or "downstream" bond along with a tail (in this case number 12 bare) The tail will then go to the grounding screw.

You should have three bare number 12 wires under the marrett.
Yes!!! I have a stupid user name. It's a Counter Strike alias from 10 years ago lol πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚
Deal Fanatic
User avatar
Nov 19, 2004
9131 posts
2031 upvotes
Cambridge, ON
The ground wires coming into the box should be attached to the box by the screws in the back of the box. Not just twisted together.

If you have a ground that goes to the device, you can either use the wire coming and wrap and attach it to the box screw first, then continue to attach to the device; or pigtail all wires coming in and have a wire attaching one to the box and one to the device. I prefer the first option, but you may not have enough wire to wrap the box screw and still reach the device.
Deal Addict
Mar 12, 2006
1128 posts
23 upvotes
Typically the bare wire from the source is first secured to the box then continues straight onto the ground screw (usually green) on the device. Seeing as there is number 12 wires in that box and another wire leaving suggest it's for kitchen. You now have 2 wires to bond hence the the twisting of the two and likely looped onto the ground on the device. In order to have a Un-interruptible path to ground the connection should include a tail (6 inch strip of bare number 12) that loops onto the ground of the device. This allows anyone to service/troubleshoot the device without interrupting the bond to the devices downstream.
[OP]
Member
User avatar
Jun 2, 2008
257 posts
74 upvotes
Toronto
Any of you guys (Electricians) want to come help out for a fee? I live in Scarborough (McCowan and Kingston). I have a permit registered

There about 25 outlets. Most of them are fine (as per inspector) approx 10 have to be bonded. It may take 2 hrs
Yes!!! I have a stupid user name. It's a Counter Strike alias from 10 years ago lol πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚
Deal Fanatic
Jul 4, 2004
7534 posts
791 upvotes
Toronto
Trigga wrote: ↑ Any of you guys (Electricians) want to come help out for a fee? I live in Scarborough (McCowan and Kingston). I have a permit registered

There about 25 outlets. Most of them are fine (as per inspector) approx 10 have to be bonded. It may take 2 hrs
A licensed electrician cannot come and help you on a homeowner permit, sorry.

PS you could have ASKED the inspector how they wanted it done. This is not uncommon - even electricians with decades of experience sometimes end up in situations where they need to confer with the inspector for an approved method of accomplishing a task.
Deal Fanatic
Jul 4, 2004
7534 posts
791 upvotes
Toronto
baouong wrote: ↑ What exactly are you trying to accomplish by removing the bonding wire? This method of bonding is common practice albeit improper and potentially dangerous. The correct way to do this would be to bond the source or "feed" to the box and make a joint with the load or "downstream" bond along with a tail (in this case number 12 bare) The tail will then go to the grounding screw.

You should have three bare number 12 wires under the marrett.
This wastes too much time. One wire enters the box, loops around the screw, and gets cut off. The other wire enters the box, loops around the screw, and goes to the device. If you have more wires than bond screws, you can pony them and marrette together but AFTER one of them is connected to a bond screw.
[OP]
Member
User avatar
Jun 2, 2008
257 posts
74 upvotes
Toronto
Drew_W wrote: ↑ A licensed electrician cannot come and help you on a homeowner permit, sorry.
Anyone want to help off the record Face With Tears Of Joy

Thanks for the info
Yes!!! I have a stupid user name. It's a Counter Strike alias from 10 years ago lol πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚
[OP]
Member
User avatar
Jun 2, 2008
257 posts
74 upvotes
Toronto
Drew_W wrote: ↑ This wastes too much time. One wire enters the box, loops around the screw, and gets cut off. The other wire enters the box, loops around the screw, and goes to the device. If you have more wires than bond screws, you can pony them and marrette together but AFTER one of them is connected to a bond screw.
Is the method of cutting the wire off once screwed to the box up to ESA standards?

This method would make a lot of sense and saves time
Yes!!! I have a stupid user name. It's a Counter Strike alias from 10 years ago lol πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚
Deal Fanatic
Jul 4, 2004
7534 posts
791 upvotes
Toronto
Trigga wrote: ↑ Is the method of cutting the wire off once screwed to the box up to ESA standards?

This method would make a lot of sense and saves time
Done by virtually ever pro electrician.
Deal Fanatic
Jul 4, 2004
7534 posts
791 upvotes
Toronto
Trigga wrote: ↑ Anyone want to help off the record Face With Tears Of Joy

Thanks for the info
There are severe penalties for this, so I don't expect you'll get any replies. Please don't ask electricians to do this either. If you don't know, hire an electrician, cancel your homeowner permit, and let them take care of it. You can of course call the ESA, ask for your inspector's phone number, and call them for a brief chat. I may be on some sort of greatness streak, but every ESA inspector I've ever dealt with has been courteous and professional.
Deal Expert
User avatar
Feb 8, 2014
25279 posts
10255 upvotes
Socially Distanced
Buy a copy of Electrical Code Simplified, $23 at Home Depot
Also available online
https://psknight.com/residential
In fact in Rand McNally they wear hats on their feet and hamburgers eat people
[OP]
Member
User avatar
Jun 2, 2008
257 posts
74 upvotes
Toronto
I can still cancel the homeowner permit and hire an electrician.

Drew, with your experience and knowledge. How much will a job like this cost? I known there are a lot of variables to this question (experience, location, complications etc). Just a rough estimate for an electrician to go through each switch and receptical with their own permit.
Drew_W wrote: ↑ There are severe penalties for this, so I don't expect you'll get any replies. Please don't ask electricians to do this either. If you don't know, hire an electrician, cancel your homeowner permit, and let them take care of it. You can of course call the ESA, ask for your inspector's phone number, and call them for a brief chat. I may be on some sort of greatness streak, but every ESA inspector I've ever dealt with has been courteous and professional.
Yes!!! I have a stupid user name. It's a Counter Strike alias from 10 years ago lol πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚
Deal Expert
User avatar
Feb 8, 2014
25279 posts
10255 upvotes
Socially Distanced
Trigga wrote: ↑ I can still cancel the homeowner permit and hire an electrician.

Drew, with your experience and knowledge. How much will a job like this cost? I known there are a lot of variables to this question (experience, location, complications etc). Just a rough estimate for an electrician to go through each switch and receptical with their own permit.
I'm surprised you have no interest in my $23 solution
In fact in Rand McNally they wear hats on their feet and hamburgers eat people

Top