Travel

Air Canada sitting on $2.6 billion of passenger money as House of Commons petition to refund passengers gains support.

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Jun 27, 2015
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bylo wrote: I already explained that to you and even did the math. Let me try again. More slowly...
1. "an Airbus A320 full of passengers travelling from Toronto to Vancouver, for example, would pay $1,764.15 in fees to do so." That's the per-aircraft fee.
2. Then I looked up the capacity of an A320, "An A320 typically seats 150 passengers."
3. Then I discounted that for C-19, "at 50% capacity due to C-19 distancing."
4. Then I pro-rated it, "that's $24 per passenger."
5 And finally calculated it as a percentage to show just how absurd it is to extrapolate as you did, "So a 1/3 increase in NAVCAN fees would add a whopping $8 to the airfare, i.e. less than ½%."


The article you linked-to is dated 31May20. That's two days ago. That's 6 months after the date of the last item you linked. That's 3 months after 01Mar20 and it's 2½ months after C-19 lockdowns began in Canada. So they've had plenty of time to [your words] "guess what COVID and airline shutdowns were."

Moreover the article says, "Most of the increases for various ATC services will come into effect Sept. 1, assuming the proposal survives the 60-day comment period." Now they don't explicitly say what year that "Sept 1." is but I'll place my bet on 2020.

Try again :facepalm:
OK but please sit down and try to calm ..down
If NAV CAD calculated their cost per aircraft the increase should not be that big. Besides all the costs there seem to be per ton
Your advanced and unprecedented math showing the cost per passenger proves me wrong but it does not justify the increase that NAV Canada is pushing for which I am saying it is nonsense
There is annual fees there that are probably paid by now,the first quarter just ended and it is probably paid for already

I don't have the time to dig this now but my guess is that they are increasing the costs (like many others) because they can not because the have to
As AC is keeping the passengers' moneybecause they can
If they need money they can do what they just did https://www.timescolonist.com/business/ ... 1.24145120
and stop the nonsense ...so it is nonsense at a larger scale, even if you proved me wrong :-) which probably weights a ton for you but bears no weight for me
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May 10, 2005
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CuriousC wrote: OK but please sit down and try to calm ..down
If NAV CAD calculated their cost per aircraft the increase should not be that big. Besides all the costs there seem to be per ton
....
There is annual fees there that are probably paid by now,the first quarter just ended and it is probably paid for already

....
and stop the nonsense ...so it is nonsense at a larger scale, even if you proved me wrong :-) which probably weights a ton for you but bears no weight for me
The one that needs to "sit down and try to calm ..down" is you. Stay with facts.....
You need to understand what NAVCAN is and what it does and what those in the the aviation industry pay for. https://www.navcanada.ca/en/products-an ... arges.aspx

Before you chime in, get informed and you need to stop the nonsense. NAV Canada fees are paid by all airlines, all aircraft and all users of Canadian airspace and airports and air traffic and ground controllers, not just Air Canada. Here is the announcements. https://www.navcanada.ca/EN/products-an ... ments.aspx
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Conquistador wrote: I'm missing the point you're trying to make here.
The more important point you're missing is that it's futile to try to infer a rational point from some posters in this thread. That's a point apparently we've both been missing about one poster in particular ;)
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Conquistador wrote: I'm missing the point you're trying to make here.

The article is discussing the Consumer Affairs body of Spain suing numerous airlines. What makes you think that the "EU is siding with the airlines"?
There is users around here that would like us to believe that despite the fact that EU ruled against the airlines, the airlines will not reimburse the passengers
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Jun 27, 2015
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bylo wrote: The more important point you're missing is that it's futile to try to infer a rational point from some posters in this thread. That's a point apparently we've both been missing about one poster in particular ;)
trying to be funny ? Have I hurt you in any way? I am really sorry, I sincerely apologize.
You can just ignore me is you don't like my posts instead of trying to hide rudeness under witty words
The fact is that somehow I am hurting you by posting links that contradict your views or interests ..sorry for that
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CuriousC wrote: trying to be funny ? Have I hurt you in any way? I am really sorry, I sincerely apologize.
You can just ignore me is you don't like my posts instead of trying to hide rudeness under witty words
The fact is that somehow I am hurting you by posting links that contradict your views or interests ..sorry for that
Not funny at all.This is what you do. Oh wait, that is funny :)
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And here is a link for those advocating middle ground solutions and similar BS like we can't let the airlines go bankrupt
https://nationalpost.com/opinion/kelly- ... r-citizens
We don't have to, AC is nowhere near that as the article explains so the topic of this thread is very true
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CuriousC wrote: There is users around here that would like us to believe that despite the fact that EU ruled against the airlines, the airlines will not reimburse the passengers
There is no need for a "ruling" from anybody. Comprehensive legislation exists in the form of EC261/2004 and it's also not news that not all airlines satisfy their legal obligations at the best of times let alone during this pandemic. IOW, your link and story are redundant.

Every country in the EU has an enforcement body and there are numerous law firms, pseudo-law firms or claims services designed to help passengers make their claims to airlines that try as hard as they can to not pay compensation. It is part of the modus operandi not to pay and hope that customers just go away. It obviously works as a business practice for them because many do.
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Jun 27, 2015
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Conquistador wrote:

Every country in the EU has an enforcement body and there are numerous law firms, pseudo-law firms or claims services designed to help passengers make their claims to airlines that try as hard as they can to not pay compensation. It is part of the modus operandi not to pay and hope that customers just go away. It obviously works as a business practice for them because many do.
Your explaination is as redundant as my link. We all know those things exist. Here in Canada in US and UE..so lets cut the patronizing tone or trying to play the judge's role here. The fact is that it is implied by some that laws and institution dont work anymore...getting a date in court will take years ans so it will be to reach a decision. I am quite tempted to quote others who are saying that September October will be the time when we collect the results of what is happening now. US like these days?
Believe me we dont want to add this air tockets refund to the socials issues we will have by then. My 2c of course

See those two votes under my link, at list two people appreciate the post
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CuriousC wrote: Your explaination is as redundant as my link. We all know those things exist. Here in Canada in US and UE..so lets cut the patronizing tone or trying to play the judge's role here. The fact is that it is implied by some that laws and institution dont work anymore...getting a date in court will take years ans so it will be to reach a decision. I am quite tempted to quote others who are saying that September October will be the time when we collect the results of what is happening now. US like these days?
See those two votes under my link, at list two people appreciate the post
Mine was hardly redundant because if you already knew what you now claim to know you wouldn't have posted this to begin with.

And if you think that the legislation in Canada in any way, shape, or form equates to the EU legislation you've got another guess coming. Don't waste it.
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Jun 27, 2015
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Conquistador wrote: Mine was hardly redundant because if you already knew what you now claim to know you wouldn't have posted this to begin with.

And if you think that the legislation in Canada in any way, shape, or form equates to the EU legislation you've got another guess coming. Don't waste it.
Sure you know it all, we knew nothing about EU before the above enlightening post
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CuriousC wrote: Sure you know it all, we knew nothing about EU before the above enlightening post
Speak for yourself. Some of us have been flying in and out of Europe for years and know very well about their legislation. IOW, stop digging yourself deeper into your hole.
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Jun 27, 2015
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Conquistador wrote: Speak for yourself. Some of us have been flying in and out of Europe for years and know very well about their legislation. IOW, stop digging yourself deeper into your hole.
Yeah what do I know about Europe after living there more than I have lived in Canada
But hey why am I being surprised, when I landed here I was told I have no Canadian experience. Biggest BS ever
These attitude "you don't know shit, you lived in a cave before getting here" is exactly what they did and exactly what are you doing :D
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CuriousC wrote: Yeah what do I know about Europe after living there more than I have lived in Canada
But hey why am I being surprised, when I landed here I was told I have no Canadian experience. Biggest BS ever
These attitude "you don't know shit, you lived in a cave before getting here" is exactly what they did and exactly what are you doing :D
Well, you are the one that has spouted EU and American rules and laws and now, you change your tune and say "Your explaination is as redundant as my link. We all know those things exist."
"The fact is that it is implied by some that laws and institution dont work anymore...getting a date in court will take years ans so it will be to reach a decision."
So, the Canadian experience is not what you thought...sorry, but it is OK for most of us.
Oh and posting redundant links is, as you have said, worthless LOL
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pererac wrote: For idiots like me - westjet seems to be giving refunds for flights to US and UK.
More broadly, Would-be passengers get around airline refund policies via credit card chargebacks | CBC News
If a response [from the airline to a refund request] doesn't come within 15 days or is rebuffed, customers can call the payment card issuer and request a chargeback on the grounds that services they paid for were not rendered.

"The burden of proof is now on the carrier," Lukacs said.

He recommends asking for a dispute adviser or an agent with a similar title in the credit card department. Clients should insist on a chargeback process even if the bank suggests the matter is between them and the airline or that the tickets were non-refundable — an irrelevant point, Lukacs said.

"You need to be really very, very assertive."
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I saw that article too....

In my case, since I booked through Scotia travel and not directly through westjet, I'm treated worse than a cow in a factory farm! They won't even talk to me about a dispute or charge back. Gosh I'm so mad.....this pitch fork is getting heavy.

NEVER book with Scotia travel or a 3rd party!
The Golden Rule: those who have the gold, make the rules

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