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Anti Scald Mixing Valve

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  • Oct 21st, 2020 9:46 pm
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Deal Addict
Feb 10, 2006
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Kitchener
IndyBeak wrote: It would be good if proponents of the valve present some stats of how many baths were taken per year in Ontario and how many of them resulted in injuries or death due to scalding before the valve was made part of the code. Someone "could" get injured is not a good justification in my opinion. Someone could get injured by literally hundreds of things we have in our homes. And then about guests getting injured and suing because water was too hot. I can only say that one needs to take a hard look at their life, if they are inviting kind of guests who cannot turn the tap a little colder, but would rather sue their hosts.
I'm not debating it. I'm simply saying its code and provided a VERY inexpensive solution to the issue. A solution that is quicker, less work, and keeps the OP code compliant. I'm not sure why someone would take time out of their day to buy, and make alterations to the plumbing when you don't need to. But life's about choices so knock your socks off.
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Deal Expert
Aug 22, 2011
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Center of Universe
Double_J wrote: I'm not debating it. I'm simply saying its code and provided a VERY inexpensive solution to the issue. A solution that is quicker, less work, and keeps the OP code compliant. I'm not sure why someone would take time out of their day to buy, and make alterations to the plumbing when you don't need to. But life's about choices so knock your socks off.
No one is taking the time out of their day to bypass the mixing valve.
If you read the OP, his mixing valve failed, so he can either replace it or bypass it.
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Oct 19, 2008
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Whitby
stryder1587 wrote: I had the water heater rental company bring an inspector in as every year when the temperature dips, I notice occasional drop in hot water temperatures.
Just now I checked it was 110F which is a good temperature, but other times it's lower than that. They demonstrated that the hot water coming from the heater was fine (pipe was hot to touch), but that the pipe that distributes to the rest of the house was much cooler. They said it was a problem with the mixing valve and required a replacement which wasn't covered. So my options are look for a plumber, or try to fix this myself. I've watched a few videos on youtube and this repair doesn't look too bad.
You haven't mentioned adjusting the mixing valve so it outputs hotter water....did the inspector not try that?

Try removing the plastic cap and turn the spindle counter clockwise, that will output hotter water from the mixing valve if its working.
Last edited by Zamboni on Oct 20th, 2020 7:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Feb 10, 2006
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Kitchener
vkizzle wrote: No one is taking the time out of their day to bypass the mixing valve.
If you read the OP, his mixing valve failed, so he can either replace it or bypass it.
Correct and if HE REPLACES, or HE BYPASSES it like someone else mentioned that takes time and money to do it. Maybe he doesn't have a pipe cutter, maybe he doesn't have fittings, a way to braze , or needs to buy sharkbite fittings. Either way it's time and money to do those things. Personally I'd spend $20 and let someone else take care of it.
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Aug 22, 2011
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Double_J wrote: Correct and if HE REPLACES, or HE BYPASSES it like someone else mentioned that takes time and money to do it. Maybe he doesn't have a pipe cutter, maybe he doesn't have fittings, a way to braze , or needs to buy sharkbite fittings. Either way it's time and money to do those things. Personally I'd spend $20 and let someone else take care of it.
$20, please send me the contacts.
A licensed plumber in my neck of the woods charges $130+ just to come out.
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Oct 19, 2008
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TomLafinsky wrote: No mixing valve means you can set tank to 140F. Mixing valve limits you to 120F AFAIK. Getting water to the faucet at 140F means you use less hot water and more cold water. The less hot water you get out of the tank the less needs to be replaced and heated.
The mixing valve allows you to safely set the tank at 140*, that high water temp kills bacteria. 120* F doesn't kill Legionella bacteria and that is temp many homeowners would set temp at if no mixing valve present. A mixing valve doesn't limit what temp a tank can be set to, it actually allows/encourages the tank temp to be higher with no danger of scalding.
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Sep 14, 2007
1001 posts
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Toronto
Zamboni wrote: You haven't mentioned adjusting the mixing valve so it outputs hotter water....did the inspector not try that?

Try removing the plastic cap and turn the spindle counter clockwise, that will output hotter water from the mixing valve if its working.
The valve was adjusted to max. He first went all the way clockwise, only got cold water, then all the way counterclockwise, measured about 111 fahrenheit.

Thanks for bringing up the notion of being code compliant, the inspector did mention that new homes all need to have this mixing valve so if selling my house in the future is a concern, then I should probably keep the mixing valve.
I'm with enercare, and would need to sign up on that plumber protection plan. Since my first post, the water seems to have been ok. Maybe the valve isn't completely broken, but intermittently faulty. I haven't needed to set the water to max while taking a shower so maybe I'll hold out on the fix. If I need to, I'll probably add the protection plan and wait 21 days.

As for the water tank, it has settings A, B, C, but no numerical readings. I read that these settings are different between heater manufacturers too? The inspector told me he recommends setting it at A and no higher.
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Oct 29, 2004
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GTA
stryder1587 wrote: As for the water tank, it has settings A, B, C, but no numerical readings. I read that these settings are different between heater manufacturers too? The inspector told me he recommends setting it at A and no higher.
A is normally 130F from what I've seen on hot water tanks.
Deal Addict
May 30, 2010
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stryder1587 wrote: ...

As for the water tank, it has settings A, B, C, but no numerical readings. I read that these settings are different between heater manufacturers too? The inspector told me he recommends setting it at A and no higher.
I set mine to C, that's about 150 degrees, the anti scald device ensures water reaching the tap is always at 120 degrees. This allows us to have longer lasting hot water out of a tank, specially when you have multiple people wanting to take long showers. Cost wise, it may seem that it costs more to heat the water more, but in the end, it's a wash as the cost is really the differential which is about 10 degree (ie, the boiler comes on when water drops 10 degrees below the set point).

Enercare recommends lower temperature, to reduce their call rates for replacing the anodes, the temperature sensor or the boiler, as hotter means more wear and tear on those items.
stryder1587 wrote: The valve was adjusted to max. He first went all the way clockwise, only got cold water, then all the way counterclockwise, measured about 111 fahrenheit.
I would trying to turning the knob a few times. I may help loosen some of the calcium/lime build up on the sensor or the valve that allows cold water through the hot water stream.
Sr. Member
Feb 27, 2007
667 posts
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TomLafinsky wrote: Heating the water to, say, 140F and then reducing it to 120F though the mixing valve means you are actually consuming more hot water than without a mixing valve. But it seems this concept is too difficult for some to understand. The only time this doesn't apply is when you are using something like a dishwasher/washer, a piece of equipment that doesn't make a judgement call on how hot the water is. But then you might end up with reduce efficiency in cleaning.
That's literally the opposite of how fluid dynamics works in regards to temperatures.

It's not to difficult for people to understand because your concept of how temperature transmission in water works is wrong.
Sr. Member
Feb 27, 2007
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TomLafinsky wrote: Heating the water to, say, 140F and then reducing it to 120F though the mixing valve means you are actually consuming more hot water than without a mixing valve. But it seems this concept is too difficult for some to understand. The only time this doesn't apply is when you are using something like a dishwasher/washer, a piece of equipment that doesn't make a judgement call on how hot the water is. But then you might end up with reduce efficiency in cleaning.
TomLafinsky wrote: Say you use a piece of equipment that needs water at precisely 120F. In the example I mentioned above, when you use a mixing valve every gallon of water the equipment will get removes exactly 1 gallon of hot water from the tank.

But without a mixing valve, the 140F hot water will need to be 'diluted' with cold water in order to bring down the temp to 120F. So for every one gallon of hot water the equipment is using it is consuming LESS than one gallon of hot water from the tank.

Since hot water taken out of the tank is replaced with cold water that needs to be heated, the less hot water you take out of the tank the better off you are.
In the first quote you state using a mixing valve uses more hot water (wrong) and the next one you state it uses less (correct).

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Sr. Member
Feb 27, 2007
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TomLafinsky wrote:
I first wrote, "Heating the water to, say, 140F and then reducing it to 120F though the mixing valve means you are actually consuming more hot water than without a mixing valve."

And then I wrote, "But without a mixing valve, the 140F hot water will need to be 'diluted' with cold water in order to bring down the temp to 120F. So for every one gallon of hot water the equipment is using it is consuming LESS than one gallon of hot water from the tank."


I don't understand your confusion. I said the same thing from two different perspectives.
So you believe that using a mixing valve to reduce the water temperature from 140F to 120F uses more hot water than doing the exact same procedure at the point of use (faucet)?

If that's the case wow. Just wow.
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Feb 10, 2010
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Toronto
OP just change the mixing valve yourself.

Exactly same situation happened to me last year. I considered all options. I decided not to do the bypass because kids in the house.

Dont waste your time trying to fix the valve ( cleaning with vinegar, installing the valve the oposite way etc) I tried all this options in order to save the money of a new mixing valve with not luck. So at the end I just got a new one and change it, is very easy. Just watch some youtube videos and of course always safety first.
Sr. Member
Feb 27, 2007
667 posts
558 upvotes
ToDealHunter wrote: OP just change the mixing valve yourself.

Exactly same situation happened to me last year. I considered all options. I decided not to so the bypass because kids in the house.

Dont waste your time trying to fix the valve ( cleaning with vinegar, installing the valve the oposite way etc) I tried all this options in order to save the money of a new mixing valve with not luck. So at the end I just got a new one and change it, is very easy. Just watch some youtube videos and of course always safety first.
Agreed - it's code for a reason.

The only people who don't need one have tankless units that delivery <120F water without storing it

I always get this PSA running in my head when people talk about cutting it out
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Sep 13, 2016
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von Monster wrote: So you believe that using a mixing valve to reduce the water temperature from 140F to 120F uses more hot water than doing the exact same procedure at the point of use (faucet)?

If that's the case wow. Just wow.
Yeah it is matter of preference whether you want to dilute the water right at the tank(mixing valve) or at individual fixtures by keeping the tap more towards the colder side. The only difference is that with mixing valve, you lose the ability to have hotter water at one tap and tamed down water at other.
Sr. Member
Feb 27, 2007
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TomLafinsky wrote: You forgot to take into account the loss that will occur between the tank and the point of delivery. In the example above the copper pipe isn't at 120F before water flows through it. So more hot water will have to flow through it to raise the temp of the copper pipe to 120F compared to water at 140F which will raise the temp of the copper pipe more quickly and use less hot water from the tank to achieve the desired temp. If this occurs only once a month it is irrelevant. But in the context that it happens many times per day and in a large house it does result in a greater usage of hot water.
Insert not sure if serious meme pictures here I guess? Your degree in thermodynamics is impressive....
IndyBeak wrote: Yeah it is matter of preference whether you want to dilute the water right at the tank(mixing valve) or at individual fixtures by keeping the tap more towards the colder side. The only difference is that with mixing valve, you lose the ability to have hotter water at one tap and tamed down water at other.
This is the correct answer.
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Jul 15, 2005
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I had a similar situation as you OP, moved into a new home with a tankless and it was only giving me cold water. Called Enercare (rental) to come and service. Then I only received warm water and it turned out the mixing valve was defective? So they replaced it (no charge) and now it's okay. Although after reading this thread, I'll probably turn the temperature up more as I feel it could be hotter (I believe its at 120 currently).
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Feb 10, 2006
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Kitchener
TomLafinsky wrote: Maybe I'm wrong, but I always thought mixing valve limits you to a max of 120F ???
When you pop off the cap you can make small adjustments to the mixing valve. It typically gives you a few degrees and affords you a bit of time while you make a decision what to do with the valve.

Op. You mentioned you are with enercare. The protection plan with them is a yearly commitment. So if you sign up with them it will be 12 months compared to canceling with reliance (1month).

That being said enercare currently has a promo where you get the first 6 months free but I hear that is ending soon as they are going with a different promotion.
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Jul 15, 2005
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TomLafinsky wrote: Maybe I'm wrong, but I always thought mixing valve limits you to a max of 120F ???
I believe so, just checked my valve and it states adjustable temp range 85 -120f. it wasn't turned all the way to hot so I'm slowly adjusting it to see how the temp is.

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