Home & Garden

In anticipation for the new rebate program I am looking at pricing out windows - Im terrified.

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  • Jun 10th, 2021 10:25 am
[OP]
Deal Addict
Mar 20, 2005
2312 posts
678 upvotes
Maple

In anticipation for the new rebate program I am looking at pricing out windows - Im terrified.

Hello,

I live in a relatively new home in Milton ( 10 years old ) and may want to take advantage of the rebate towards windows.

I have never been in this position and I am overwhelmed. I feel the window industry ( and I could be wrong ) is like the sleazy used car market. I feel ill be offered upgrades, products and services which are there to leech every single cent off a home owner. There also seems to be an overwhelming amount of options and products available. Is there REALLY that much of a difference? I honestly do not even know where to begin.

With anything, I know options are potentially endless with a blank check but I am looking to just get something that is the best value. I am sure there is medium range products that are 90% as efficient as top tier windows for half the cost. Any help or advice is highly appreciated. Thanks !
23 replies
Deal Addict
Jan 19, 2011
2990 posts
1251 upvotes
Complete waste of money, with no financial benefit for a home that new

A whole house full of windows could be 20k to 40k or more installed, and no savings in heating fuel costs.

spend your money elsewhere
"The truth is incontrovertible, malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end; there it is."
Just a guy who dabbles in lots of stuff learning along the way. I do have opinions, and readily share them!
Deal Addict
User avatar
Feb 25, 2004
1088 posts
539 upvotes
Longueuil
It might be different in your area but don't really expect to save much with these rebate programs. Windows installers know it and they increase the price about the same as the rebate so you won't save much (part of the reason is probably because demand is high when a program is active). 10 years is not old, unless there is an issue, do not change them yet (even with more energy efficient windows there is no way you would save what you paid).
Try not! Do or do not, there is no try...
Deal Addict
Jan 15, 2017
4333 posts
3916 upvotes
Ottawa
Doubt very much if window replacement in a 10 yr old home would even qualify. You must have an energy audit completed first and you can only select items that are on the audit.
Deal Addict
Nov 27, 2007
3642 posts
765 upvotes
Rebate program is dumb, scAm to get you to pay for over priced service the only way government knows how
Deal Addict
User avatar
Jan 2, 2012
3837 posts
2864 upvotes
KINGSTON,ON
Depending on your builder, you may have the shittiest windows they could get away without a Tarion claim against them, which is five years (although I don't think Tarion even covers windows.)
As far as I know there is little in the Ontario Building Code requirements in regards to windows other than placement and possibly double pane glass.

Yes, windows are indeed like used car sales, with tonnes of fly by night operators out there.
Frankly, unless your windows not functioning mechanically, or are foggy as a result of failed seals, I'd not bother. As others have said, your ROE is non existent on new windows even if the efficiency jumps 30%, and much of that can be negated by piss poor installation.
Sr. Member
Mar 10, 2004
762 posts
274 upvotes
I wish i ran a doors and window company.
Newbie
May 12, 2021
85 posts
46 upvotes
Got the Enbridge audit on my home built in 2008. Windows did not show up on my audit; insulate attic, upgrade heating system, upgrade hot water system, air sealing, insulate foundation, upgrade cooling system, water conservation aka toilets.
skeet50 wrote: Doubt very much if window replacement in a 10 yr old home would even qualify. You must have an energy audit completed first and you can only select items that are on the audit.
Deal Addict
User avatar
Sep 27, 2006
4031 posts
1065 upvotes
Not so easy there Ma…
2000teamti wrote: Got the Enbridge audit on my home built in 2008. Windows did not show up on my audit; insulate attic, upgrade heating system, upgrade hot water system, air sealing, insulate foundation, upgrade cooling system, water conservation aka toilets.
My place is, 2008. What R factor did the auditor estimate your attic insulation to be? I'm hoping it might possibly qualify for the upgrade..
Newbie
May 12, 2021
85 posts
46 upvotes
R35 or 12” of cellulose x R2.9 = R35

You can go up into you attic and measure your fill with a tape measure.
fergy wrote: My place is, 2008. What R factor did the auditor estimate your attic insulation to be? I'm hoping it might possibly qualify for the upgrade..
Deal Expert
Feb 7, 2017
17811 posts
15257 upvotes
Eastern Ontario
Ya probably should have just posted this in the MegaThread for Windows & Doors
merged-windows-doors-633922/

But in any case ... Paging @Jerico
If anyone can answer your questions they can
.
.
.
Personally, unless you have the absolute cheapest craziest Windows ...
I think your money is best spent elsewhere ... like upgrading insulation (never enough of it )

Like the others said, Windows are something typically done after a house hits the 20 year mark
Member
Oct 25, 2017
241 posts
241 upvotes
We’re still running a couple of windows from 1984 which we will probably replace because I want double hung windows and these current ones are those tiny sideways slide ones...functionally they seem fine. If I had a choice I’d restore all to the original style from the 1920’s. What I’m trying to say is, as a RFDer we’re looking out for you I’m not sure you’re going to gain much if anything from upgrading 10 yr windows.
Deal Guru
Jan 25, 2007
10629 posts
5918 upvotes
Paris
tempperm wrote: I wish i ran a doors and window company.
Trust me, you dont.
Deal Guru
Jan 25, 2007
10629 posts
5918 upvotes
Paris
PointsHubby wrote: Like the others said, Windows are something typically done after a house hits the 20 year mark
The Mattamy homes in Milton have the most trash windows I have ever seen. Was getting called in there to replace stuff inside the first year some of those people were in there, as I think Tarion is 2 years but folks didnt want more trash. Personally I wish the government would put us out of business and make companies put in good windows in the first place. It’s all such a massive waste.

The rebate program isnt that great to be honest. If you had bought windows in December your prices would have been cheaper than with the $125 rebate as the price of everything spiked due to materials between March and May. Unlikely to come back down this year, but everyone put a surcharge on for materials vs actually raising core pricing. Doors got hit pretty hard as there is a lot of wood in even a steel door and we all know the price of wood.

So what would I do? If you want windows this year, try the rebate route and at least you aren’t overpaying if prices come down next year.
Deal Fanatic
Aug 29, 2011
6822 posts
3802 upvotes
Mississauga
It's not a recent thing. My house was built in 1992 and the original owner replaced three of windows after five years.
Deal Guru
Jan 25, 2007
10629 posts
5918 upvotes
Paris
newlyborn wrote: Days are long gone when windows could have lasted 15-20 years. I live in Vaughan and the builder was Arista. I know my windows were completely ready to be changed at roughly 8 year mark but never invested as I am of the same opinion as @fieldhousehandyman
Those days never existed where windows would last 15-20 years unless you upgraded. I see Pella windows from the 87-92 boom just needing replacing now, and houses that are 2 years old with all shot windows.

A similar upgrade like Pella was back in the day would see you not having to replace the windows in your lifetime on a new build. Would probably cost you $5k today, saving you $15k in 10 years. But no one honestly gives a crap about tomorrow with houses these days. I see it all the time with people replacing windows. Replace hot garbage with more hot garbage, its someone else’s problem when I move out.

If I ever run for office, I am going to force companies to put in windows that will last, new builds or otherwise. Its such a waste of our resources, both money and materials etc, plus all this crap just goes to the dump. Do it once, do it right.

I just had an electrician in here to quote me going to a 200 amp panel from the existing 100 amp. Why was this house built with 100 amp? Because it was the minimum at the time and the 100 amp did exactly everything in the house with no room for expansion. The meter is 200 amp, so we are talking about $50 in wire and $25 in extra panel when the house was built. Instead im into $2500 for a swap. F sakes.
Deal Guru
Jan 25, 2007
10629 posts
5918 upvotes
Paris
corcoran_chris wrote: Hello,

I live in a relatively new home in Milton ( 10 years old ) and may want to take advantage of the rebate towards windows.

I have never been in this position and I am overwhelmed. I feel the window industry ( and I could be wrong ) is like the sleazy used car market. I feel ill be offered upgrades, products and services which are there to leech every single cent off a home owner. There also seems to be an overwhelming amount of options and products available. Is there REALLY that much of a difference? I honestly do not even know where to begin.

With anything, I know options are potentially endless with a blank check but I am looking to just get something that is the best value. I am sure there is medium range products that are 90% as efficient as top tier windows for half the cost. Any help or advice is highly appreciated. Thanks !
My recommendation for anyone is simply to go with VinylGuard. They make the best windows for the price, and have the best warranty around. We have access to 5 or 6 companies and 90% of what I sell is VG. Its whats in my own house. Call them for a contractor recommendation and go full frame only.

Edit: We sell them because we get very few service calls. We make no more money on VG than any other brand, except we dont lose money having to mess around with calls later nearly as much.
Deal Fanatic
Jul 7, 2017
6806 posts
3093 upvotes
SW corner of the cou…
Jerico wrote: The Mattamy homes in Milton have the most trash windows I have ever seen. Was getting called in there to replace stuff inside the first year some of those people were in there, as I think Tarion is 2 years but folks didnt want more trash. Personally I wish the government would put us out of business and make companies put in good windows in the first place. It’s all such a massive waste.
Jerico wrote: Those days never existed where windows would last 15-20 years unless you upgraded. I see Pella windows from the 87-92 boom just needing replacing now, and houses that are 2 years old with all shot windows.

A similar upgrade like Pella was back in the day would see you not having to replace the windows in your lifetime on a new build. Would probably cost you $5k today, saving you $15k in 10 years. But no one honestly gives a crap about tomorrow with houses these days. I see it all the time with people replacing windows. Replace hot garbage with more hot garbage, its someone else’s problem when I move out.

If I ever run for office, I am going to force companies to put in windows that will last, new builds or otherwise. Its such a waste of our resources, both money and materials etc, plus all this crap just goes to the dump. Do it once, do it right.
I totally agree. One of the federal government's promises from 2015 was to transition to net zero. One small step wuld have been better windows.

The trouble is that consumers are not discerning enough, or may have no choice. And even if they do, it's all down to $. The previous owner of my house has it designed and pre-built as a kit, acting as his own GC. Evidently, windows, doors and anything else in the house were pretty much a commodity to him; all the same. Same with installation (all subbed to the lowest bid). 3 patio French doors installed and fasntened with just one or two screws. At least the front entry doors had door hinge post screws go into the posts. Frame was held on by 1-2 screws otherwise. Only thing done right - admired by the different teams of carpenters who replaced the doors - was the trim.
I just had an electrician in here to quote me going to a 200 amp panel from the existing 100 amp. Why was this house built with 100 amp? Because it was the minimum at the time and the 100 amp did exactly everything in the house with no room for expansion. The meter is 200 amp, so we are talking about $50 in wire and $25 in extra panel when the house was built. Instead im into $2500 for a swap. F sakes.
Could be back then, no one ever foresaw a need for more power, like some computer industry titans of the '80s thinking 1 MB of CPU memory would be all you ever need.
I smile when I see container ships sailing past my house laden with stuff made in China
Deal Guru
Jan 25, 2007
10629 posts
5918 upvotes
Paris
thriftshopper wrote: Only thing done right - admired by the different teams of carpenters who replaced the doors - was the trim.
Of course the trim was nice. My brother-in-law was a kitchen contractor for a while and he always hated Holmes. People dont want to spend money on what they dont see, and Holmes is the king of spending money on things you cant see.

I see it all the time with windows too. People want grills, which cost them more money for less efficient windows. I have had people opt out of casement for sliding windows (as they are very slightly less) and then spend that money on grills. So aggravating.

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