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Anyone have experience with going all electric for your house and discontinuing natural gas service?

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  • Mar 1st, 2020 5:52 pm
[OP]
Newbie
Feb 28, 2020
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5 upvotes

Anyone have experience with going all electric for your house and discontinuing natural gas service?

Anyone have experience going the all-electric home route and disconnect from natural gas?

Our 80% afue furnace and AC need to be replaced, and I was thinking about going the electric cold-climate, ducted heat-pump route (Mitsubisihi Zuba or Daikin equivalent). I have a 200amp panel with enough capacity, an induction stove, electric oven, and planning to replace the gas tank with a heat pump water heater. I already scheduled enercare to disconnect and haul away the water tank at no fee (14 year old tank).

At that point, I think, I wouldn't need enbridge's services any more. Is there a way to end all enbridge services, and no longer receive a gas bill? Will I still have to pay the fee to still have a gas meter on my property? I talked to a gas appliance installer, and he said that it's recommended to just leave the gas supply pipes in the house, but enbridge will just disconnect them from the meter and lock the meter, so if I ever sold the house, the cost to reconnect to a gas service is lower for new owners.

I'm aware of the higher up-front and operation costs for going the all electric route, I've gotten an energy audit, air sealed down to 2 ACH, had an hvac specialist do a heating load/loss calculation for this house already.

I would call enercare/enbridge again, but I spent almost two hours getting passed around between their staff just to get the water tank removed.

Edit: I live in Markham, ON
Last edited by jimfelldown on Feb 29th, 2020 7:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
30 replies
Deal Fanatic
Dec 19, 2009
5387 posts
3648 upvotes
If you live in a part of the country where the temperature doesn't drop below -15C then it may be beneficial. Temperatures below that and it may not keep up and even temperature above that trying to heat water you'd have to get it sized properly.

"Zuba keeps your space warm even when the outdoor temperature drops
as low as -30°C. It continues to perform at 100% of it’s heating capacity
at -15°C, ensuring a comfortable space no matter what’s happening
outside."
Deal Expert
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Feb 11, 2007
19655 posts
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GTA
jimfelldown wrote: Anyone have experience going the all-electric home route and disconnect from natural gas?

Our 80% afue furnace and AC need to be replaced, and I was thinking about going the electric cold-climate, ducted heat-pump route (Mitsubisihi Zuba or Daikin equivalent). I have a 200amp panel with enough capacity, an induction stove, electric oven, and planning to replace the gas tank with a heat pump water heater. I already scheduled enercare to disconnect and haul away the water tank at no fee (14 year old tank).

At that point, I think, I wouldn't need enbridge's services any more. Is there a way to end all enbridge services, and no longer receive a gas bill? Will I still have to pay the fee to still have a gas meter on my property? I talked to a gas appliance installer, and he said that it's recommended to just leave the gas supply pipes in the house, but enbridge will just disconnect them from the meter and lock the meter, so if I ever sold the house, the cost to reconnect to a gas service is lower for new owners.

I'm aware of the higher up-front and operation costs for going the all electric route, I've gotten an energy audit, air sealed down to 2 ACH, had an hvac specialist do a heating load/loss calculation for this house already.

I would call enercare/enbridge again, but I spent almost two hours getting passed around between their staff just to get the water tank removed.
Where do you live?
If the women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy.
Deal Fanatic
Dec 5, 2009
5754 posts
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Why are you considering this? Isn’t electric heating considerably more expensive ?
[OP]
Newbie
Feb 28, 2020
9 posts
5 upvotes
pootza wrote: If you live in a part of the country where the temperature doesn't drop below -15C then it may be beneficial. Temperatures below that and it may not keep up and even temperature above that trying to heat water you'd have to get it sized properly.

"Zuba keeps your space warm even when the outdoor temperature drops
as low as -30°C. It continues to perform at 100% of it’s heating capacity
at -15°C, ensuring a comfortable space no matter what’s happening
outside."
The energy modelling has already been completed and approved by the engineer for our proposal. Wondering if there are any more "oh I had no idea enbride would still charge me for ___" moments. The company I'm working with hasn't had any one go ALL electric (furnace and water heater).
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Aug 12, 2007
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fdl wrote: Why are you considering this? Isn’t electric heating considerably more expensive ?
natural Gas ~= 20¢/m3
Electricity ~= 25¢/KWH
( These prices include an approximate typical administrative and delivery cost )

1cuFt natural gas = 1036BTU
1 m3 = 1036 X 3.281 = 3,399 BTU/m3

1KW =3412.142 BTU/Hr

You see that the Gas BTU and Electricity BTU cost are almost identical. and this is using just resistive capacity of heat.

Simply by going Electricity , I believe by eliminating the Natural gas administrative costs. Your bill might lower. But by adding Heat pumps you're definitely going to save money.


1cuFt natural gas = 1036BTU
1 m3 =36,585.3 BTU/m3
Last edited by Supahhh on Dec 30th, 2020 12:37 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Pay it forward.
Deal Guru
Oct 6, 2007
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Kootenays
Without a location, it's impossible for anyone to compare energy use or costs.
Deal Fanatic
Dec 19, 2009
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Supahhh wrote: natural Gas ~= 20¢/m3
Electricity ~= 25¢/KWH
( These prices include an approximate typical administrative and delivery cost )

1cuFt natural gas = 1036BTU
1 m3 = 1036 X 3.281 = 3,399 BTU/m3

1KW =3412.142 BTU/Hr

You see that the Gas BTU and Electricity BTU cost are almost identical. and this is using just resistive capacity of heat.

Simply by going Electricity , I believe by eliminating the Natural gas administrative costs. Your bill might lower. But by adding Heat pumps you're definitely going to save money.
Better check your cuft to m3 conversion.
Deal Guru
Jan 25, 2007
12127 posts
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Paris
Supahhh wrote: natural Gas ~= 20¢/m3
Electricity ~= 25¢/KWH
( These prices include an approximate typical administrative and delivery cost )

1cuFt natural gas = 1036BTU
1 m3 = 1036 X 3.281 = 3,399 BTU/m3

1KW =3412.142 BTU/Hr

You see that the Gas BTU and Electricity BTU cost are almost identical. and this is using just resistive capacity of heat.

Simply by going Electricity , I believe by eliminating the Natural gas administrative costs. Your bill might lower. But by adding Heat pumps you're definitely going to save money.
1 cubic meter of gas is almost 40,000 btu not 4,000 btu
Sr. Member
Oct 22, 2016
907 posts
818 upvotes
Comox Valley
For me without question, stay with your natural gas. My previous house (Fraser Valley) which I lived in for 17 years, used a natural gas furnace. Last fall I moved onto Vancouver Island, and where I live they do not have natural gas.

So I heat with a heat pump, 9 years old, and as backup electric furnace. I have found my dollar cost per month, have increased considerably. I am not happy about that, and I sure as heck miss the natural gas, and low cost of it here, at least with Fortis.
[OP]
Newbie
Feb 28, 2020
9 posts
5 upvotes
Thanks for all the replies, I'm not looking for advice on cost analysis, I'm well aware of the increased cost to operate and purchase heat pump solutions. our heat capacity is 34k buth, cooling is 30kbuth. All of it has been calculated by their engineer, and matched the calculations I did before getting their proposal.
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Feb 11, 2007
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jimfelldown wrote: Thanks for all the replies, I'm not looking for advice on cost analysis, I'm well aware of the increased cost to operate and purchase heat pump solutions. our heat capacity is 34k buth, cooling is 30kbuth. All of it has been calculated by their engineer, and matched the calculations I did before getting their proposal.
Out of curiosity, what does the cost difference look like? Do you save money or does it cost more? Do you have any plans for solar with battery storage to help reduce costs?
If the women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy.
Deal Addict
Nov 17, 2012
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Toronto
Interestingly, friends just built a cabin up near mine. Off grid, no electricity, no natural gas, no municipal water. We're all on solar and propane with wood stoves.

They were forced to install 2 sources of heat - had to put a propane wall heater in along with the wood stove. I presume that was because of the other source being wood.

Something to think about is what happens in a power outage? Can you get a standby generator to produce enough power to heat your house?

I know you can get a simple generator to run the blower fan of a natural gas furnace and never run out of heat - especially if the generator is natural gas powered. But... can you do this with all electric?

You might want the natural gas connection for a hard-wired, fixed location standby generator.
[OP]
Newbie
Feb 28, 2020
9 posts
5 upvotes
engineered wrote: Out of curiosity, what does the cost difference look like? Do you save money or does it cost more? Do you have any plans for solar with battery storage to help reduce costs?
Assuming that I won't have any vampire fees from enbridge after discontinuing their services, I'm expecting to have the same net utility costs, maybe 2% less depending how we optimize temperatures and thermostat settings. However, there is a higher upfront cost comparing high-end cold-climate heat pumps vs mid/lower-end gas furnaces (mitsubishi ducted system is almost double the price). If you compare high-end cold climate heat pump and high-end gas furnace and AC, it's a difference of 20%.

More reading on cost of gas vs electric vs heat pump: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/whats-op ... d-elfstrom
Deal Fanatic
Jul 7, 2017
8734 posts
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SW corner of the cou…
I'm interested in what size Zuba you're getting, or size/model of Daikin. Looking to replace an old and low HSPF Carrier unit when it goes.
I smile when I see container ships sailing past my house laden with stuff made in China
[OP]
Newbie
Feb 28, 2020
9 posts
5 upvotes
torontotim wrote: Interestingly, friends just built a cabin up near mine. Off grid, no electricity, no natural gas, no municipal water. We're all on solar and propane with wood stoves.

They were forced to install 2 sources of heat - had to put a propane wall heater in along with the wood stove. I presume that was because of the other source being wood.

Something to think about is what happens in a power outage? Can you get a standby generator to produce enough power to heat your house?

I know you can get a simple generator to run the blower fan of a natural gas furnace and never run out of heat - especially if the generator is natural gas powered. But... can you do this with all electric?

You might want the natural gas connection for a hard-wired, fixed location standby generator.
So this was one of the concerns I had/have, prolonged power outages.

In a power outage do people actually start their furnaces? I'm unaware of this, how do you do it?

https://www.climatecare.com/blog/will-a ... -blackout/
If the article is true, then this is another case of the general public being misinformed about gas vs electricity.

My contingency plan was a clean power 20kw generator, with a generator panel, I have not had that installed (yet?), but considering it. I'm planning on going solar because our roof and orientation is a optimal for it. Hopefully solar roof + something like a tesla power wall would be a good solution for us. But the cost of having this because 'just in case' doesn't seem justifiable to me.
[OP]
Newbie
Feb 28, 2020
9 posts
5 upvotes
thriftshopper wrote: I'm interested in what size Zuba you're getting, or size/model of Daikin. Looking to replace an old and low HSPF Carrier unit when it goes.
Model: Indoor PVA-A30AA4 and Outdoor PUZ-HA30NHA4
Cooling Capacity: Up to 30,000Buth (2.5Ton)
Cooling Efficiency: 15.6 SEER
Heating Capacity: Up to 34,000Buth
Heating Efficiency: 9.7 HSPF
Electrical Heater: 2-stage 10KW (34,120Btuh) electrical resistance heater

The daikin equiv: http://www.daikinac.com/content/assets/ ... 0PVJU9.pdf
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Dec 12, 2006
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Why??????

I've done sort of reverse. I've converted from all electric heat to propane ( no ng where I live ), and stove and water tank.

Propane is about 2-3 times the cost of NG, and we have saved over $1500 in 1st year.

As well hydro one( where i live ) rates on hydro with delivery rate hitting $0.42+ kwh on peak and $0.20 off peak.

On average in winter we where running $350-$400 month electricity bills, now running $80-95 electricty plus $125-150 month propane in winter and $30 month propane other seasons for water tank and stove.

We where on average using 50-70kwh a day in winter, now we are at 10-14 kwh( 14 on days where doing laundry and using dryer ) a day.

Electricity rates are raising as there 4 year forced reduce rate by government will be ending in next few years and provincial rebates being phased out in next few years..

Yes we invest 10k in conversion, and will take 5 years to see break even, but now we have more comfortable house: Hotwater is nice and hot( we lowered temp on electric to save energy ) and now house is kept warm 24/7 on programmed settings versus electric programmed and hot and cold times between run times or temp changes in rooms.
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Dec 12, 2006
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jimfelldown wrote: So this was one of the concerns I had/have, prolonged power outages.

In a power outage do people actually start their furnaces? I'm unaware of this, how do you do it?

https://www.climatecare.com/blog/will-a ... -blackout/
If the article is true, then this is another case of the general public being misinformed about gas vs electricity.

My contingency plan was a clean power 20kw generator, with a generator panel, I have not had that installed (yet?), but considering it. I'm planning on going solar because our roof and orientation is a optimal for it. Hopefully solar roof + something like a tesla power wall would be a good solution for us. But the cost of having this because 'just in case' doesn't seem justifiable to me.

For modern furnaces you can't or shouldn't run a standard generator, you need one that doesn't surge the power in spikes to protect the furnaces circuit boards. Usually people use a whole house generator such as a generac which runs off ng or propane when power is out.

running a electric heat off a standard generator is possible, but as well very easy to trip load protection on generator upon start up of heat. As you need a powerful one as you suggested looking at 20kw one.

Were I live, we loose power on average of 48 hours total per year and mostly at 3-4 hour runs, not enough time to worry about outages and backup and not worth any cost of backup solution..

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