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B.C. launching Hydrogen strategy

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  • Jul 9th, 2021 10:27 pm
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Jul 7th, 2021 1:36 pm
thriftshopper [OP]
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Jul 7th, 2021 1:36 pm

B.C. launching Hydrogen strategy

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british- ... -1.6092928

B.C. is launching plans for a hydrogen fuel strategy including converting heavy vehicles to hydrogen. This will, probably and unfortunately, come to past when I am too old to buy and operate a cheap(er), used fuel cell Class A RV (gas one has fallen out of consideration with regular at $1.73 a litre in my parts).

While hydrogen may less efficient than directly charging EVS, excess electrical production may be better converted into hydrogen than sold cheap into the wholesale grid.
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Jul 7th, 2021 1:49 pm
Xtrema
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Jul 7th, 2021 1:49 pm

thriftshopper wrote: ↑ While hydrogen may less efficient than directly charging EVS, excess electrical production may be better converted into hydrogen than sold cheap into the wholesale grid.
The question is, does BC have excess power?

https://thenarwhal.ca/clean-b-c-is-quie ... heres-why/

While I don't think it'll be an issue for my life time, I think BC is at risk of running out of power as the glaciers in the Rockies dries up. Currently predicted to be around 2100.

As for hydrogen, been saying it all along if you want to retire diesel, heavy load require an energy denser than batteries of today. SSB may help but hydrogen has much better characteristics and even potentially less environmental damaging compare to mining and hauling all these batteries.

I would take a 10-20% efficiency cut for hydrogen for a potentially 400% increase in refuel time.
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Jul 7th, 2021 1:56 pm
kr0zet
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Jul 7th, 2021 1:56 pm

Xtrema wrote: ↑ The question is, does BC have excess power?

https://thenarwhal.ca/clean-b-c-is-quie ... heres-why/

While I don't think it'll be an issue for my life time, I think BC is at risk of running out of power as the glaciers in the Rockies dries up. Currently predicted to be around 2100.

As for hydrogen, been saying it all along if you want to retire diesel, heavy load require an energy denser than batteries of today. SSB may help but hydrogen has much better characteristics and even potentially less environmental damaging compare to mining and hauling all these batteries.

I would take a 10-20% efficiency cut for hydrogen for a potentially 400% increase in refuel time.
Interesting...
Jul 7th, 2021 2:02 pm
Xtrema
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Jul 7th, 2021 2:02 pm

kr0zet wrote: ↑ Interesting...
Yup, someone is profiting from public infrastructure that your tax is paying for AND dirtying the pool with a net gain of dirty power imported.
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Jul 7th, 2021 4:25 pm
engineered
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Jul 7th, 2021 4:25 pm

Xtrema wrote: ↑ The question is, does BC have excess power?

https://thenarwhal.ca/clean-b-c-is-quie ... heres-why/

While I don't think it'll be an issue for my life time, I think BC is at risk of running out of power as the glaciers in the Rockies dries up. Currently predicted to be around 2100.

As for hydrogen, been saying it all along if you want to retire diesel, heavy load require an energy denser than batteries of today. SSB may help but hydrogen has much better characteristics and even potentially less environmental damaging compare to mining and hauling all these batteries.

I would take a 10-20% efficiency cut for hydrogen for a potentially 400% increase in refuel time.
I really do wish we'd go for hydrogen, especially if it was for ICE vehicles. BMW had a gas/hydrogen powered car back around 2000, which is perfect for transitioning to cleaner fuel. A breakthrough would be to develop a catalyst to drastically reduce the energy required to separate H2O. We could still have our great sounding sports cars, doesn't require expensive fuel cell stacks or batteries either. Just need to fit the high pressure H2 tanks.
Everybody who hates on EVs can be happy, because very little would change.
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Jul 7th, 2021 6:32 pm
thriftshopper [OP]
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Jul 7th, 2021 6:32 pm

Xtrema wrote: ↑ AND dirtying the pool with a net gain of dirty power imported.
A shared grid is a necessary evil. The power problems Texas had a few weeks or months ago was precisely because the state wanted to isolate its power grid from the rest of the country. Cold weather that closed down much of its in-state non-cold weather proof generative capacity couldn't be buffered by imports from outside the state.

And unfortunately, a watt is a watt as far as electricty goes. What is fed is, not matter what the source, is the same as what comes out, much like cotton, gold bullion or diamonds (I don't think anyone much cares where they come from). BC hydro could say it generates as much or more "clean" energy as/than its customers use.
I smile when I see container ships sailing past my house laden with stuff made in China
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Jul 7th, 2021 6:54 pm
Xtrema
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Jul 7th, 2021 6:54 pm

Well at least put the profit behind more initiatives or back to customers instead allowing a shadow corp take off with it.
Jul 7th, 2021 8:23 pm
thriftshopper [OP]
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Jul 7th, 2021 8:23 pm

Xtrema wrote: ↑ Well at least put the profit behind more initiatives or back to customers instead allowing a shadow corp take off with it.
One of the monsters created by the SoCreds (the other being the RE purchase tax) that still haunt the province decades later.
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Jul 7th, 2021 9:56 pm
ES_Revenge
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Jul 7th, 2021 9:56 pm

Launching? Hydrogen? Has that idea ever worked out well for anyone? lol

Anyway doesn't Toyblowta have a hydrogen car they sell in California or whatever? It's slow as the ol' blackstrap though. I mean it is a Toyblowta so maybe it's just them I guess :shrug:

"Car guys" that think electric cars have killed the "car guy car" can be convinced quite quickly by just driving an electric--the instant torque and wow factor of it is indeed impressive. Hydrogen cars have no convincing factors (to "car guys") at all, lol.
Jul 7th, 2021 10:30 pm
engineered
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Jul 7th, 2021 10:30 pm

ES_Revenge wrote: ↑ Launching? Hydrogen? Has that idea ever worked out well for anyone? lol

Anyway doesn't Toyblowta have a hydrogen car they sell in California or whatever? It's slow as the ol' blackstrap though. I mean it is a Toyblowta so maybe it's just them I guess :shrug:

"Car guys" that think electric cars have killed the "car guy car" can be convinced quite quickly by just driving an electric--the instant torque and wow factor of it is indeed impressive. Hydrogen cars have no convincing factors (to "car guys") at all, lol.
FCV is basically a an EV with hydrogen fuel cell range extender. It has a small battery and an electric motor. So it could be made fast with good motors and a larger battery like in a Tesla, but then it would be less efficient, and the fuel cell stack is expensive enough already.
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Jul 8th, 2021 12:15 am
craftsman
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Jul 8th, 2021 12:15 am

The BCNDP are trying hard to kill off the Green Party especially and need something to put into their cap to say that the BCNDP is greener than the Greens especially given the bad press that they had with the old-growth forest and the recent heatwave that the eco-folks are trying to pin on climate change.
Jul 8th, 2021 12:25 am
Kiraly
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Jul 8th, 2021 12:25 am

craftsman wrote: ↑ recent heatwave that the eco-folks are trying to pin on climate change.
The "eco-folks"?

"Although it was a rare event, it would have been virtually impossible without climate change,” said Geert Jan van Oldenborgh of the Royal Netherlands Meteorological Institute, who conducted the study with 26 other scientists, part of a collaborative group called World Weather Attribution.

If the world warms another 1.5 degrees Fahrenheit, which could occur this century barring drastic cuts in greenhouse-gas emissions, similar events would not be so rare, the researchers found. The chances of such a severe heat wave occurring somewhere in the world would increase [from 0.1 percent] to as much as 20 percent in a given year.

[...]

The study is the latest in a growing body of research termed “rapid attribution” analysis, which aims to establish if there is a link between climate change and specific extreme events like heat waves, heavy rain storms and flooding. The goal is to publicize any climate connection quickly, in part to thwart climate denialists who might claim that global warming had no impact on a particular event. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/07/clim ... e=Homepage
Jul 8th, 2021 1:31 am
naimc
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Jul 8th, 2021 1:31 am

Some promising tech on the hydrogen storage front : Solid disks that store hydrogen and release in a gas with a laser, simplified storage and distribution. No word on how the disks are produced.

"Solid state" hydrogen fuel by a company called Plasma Kinetics

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Jul 8th, 2021 1:48 am
Haz
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Jul 8th, 2021 1:48 am

ES_Revenge wrote: ↑ Launching? Hydrogen? Has that idea ever worked out well for anyone? lol

Anyway doesn't Toyblowta have a hydrogen car they sell in California or whatever? It's slow as the ol' blackstrap though. I mean it is a Toyblowta so maybe it's just them I guess :shrug:

"Car guys" that think electric cars have killed the "car guy car" can be convinced quite quickly by just driving an electric--the instant torque and wow factor of it is indeed impressive. Hydrogen cars have no convincing factors (to "car guys") at all, lol.
There are a number of Mirai's in Vancouver and 3 stations around town. I was talking to an HTEC rep and was informed that they planned to have 6 stations in Metro Vancouver by the end of the year.
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Jul 8th, 2021 3:13 am
craftsman
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Jul 8th, 2021 3:13 am

Kiraly wrote: ↑ The "eco-folks"?

"Although it was a rare event, it would have been virtually impossible without climate change,” said Geert Jan van Oldenborgh of the Royal Netherlands Meteorological Institute, who conducted the study with 26 other scientists, part of a collaborative group called World Weather Attribution.

If the world warms another 1.5 degrees Fahrenheit, which could occur this century barring drastic cuts in greenhouse-gas emissions, similar events would not be so rare, the researchers found. The chances of such a severe heat wave occurring somewhere in the world would increase [from 0.1 percent] to as much as 20 percent in a given year.

[...]

The study is the latest in a growing body of research termed “rapid attribution” analysis, which aims to establish if there is a link between climate change and specific extreme events like heat waves, heavy rain storms and flooding. The goal is to publicize any climate connection quickly, in part to thwart climate denialists who might claim that global warming had no impact on a particular event. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/07/clim ... e=Homepage
Thanks for quoting one of the 'more reasonable' conclusions as it states that these events are rare and even state that there is a possibility that it's not climate change related which by the way, has not been widely reported.

Look at the recent reporting by others:

1. CNN - More than 230 deaths reported in British Columbia amid historic heat wave
Extreme high temperatures rate very high on the list of weather events ranked by how much influence climate change has on them.
And heat waves are becoming both more common and more intense due to the warming climate.
2. New York Times - Deaths Spike as Heat Wave Broils Canada and the Pacific Northwest
“Climate change is increasing the frequency, intensity and duration of heat waves,” said Kristie Ebi, a professor in the Center for Health and the Global Environment at the University of Washington. “When you look at this heat wave, it is so far outside the range of normal.”
There's no talk about it being a rare event but rather increasing.

While others, like your quote, are more reasonable -

Vancouver is Awesome - Will there be another scorching hot heat wave in Metro Vancouver this summer?
"That kinda thing is a once-in-a-lifetime event," Environment Canada meteorologist Doug Lundquist told Vancouver Is Awesome.
But even with your source, they are basing their predictions on models which have not been right and haven't tracked actually events since they started using them to predict actual events. Another researcher from Oxford stated the following in an article from CP (Climate change made B.C., Alberta heat wave 150 times more likely, study concludes
Climate models are better, statistical methods have improved, computers are more powerful — and climate change is just that much more unmistakable, said Fredi Otto of Oxford.
Which is basically stating that models and methods are better now so we know what we are saying... but they have been saying that for the past 50 years. A recent study from climate researcher said this about some modeling (Some of the latest climate models provide unrealistically high projections of future warming
A new study from University of Michigan climate researchers concludes that some of the latest-generation climate models may be overly sensitive to carbon dioxide increases and therefore project future warming that is unrealistically high.
....
"Some of the newest models used to make future predictions may be too sensitive to increases in atmospheric carbon dioxide and thus predict too much warming," said U-M's Chris Poulsen, a professor in the U-M Department of Earth and Environmental Sciences and one of the study's three authors.
Jul 8th, 2021 3:23 am
Quentin5
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Jul 8th, 2021 3:23 am

Wasted effort.
In take two of the VHS and Beta wars VHS lost. It just refuses to surrender


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Jul 8th, 2021 11:03 am
robsaw
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Jul 8th, 2021 11:03 am

The future is not whether personal vehicles should be liquid-petro, electric, hydrogen powered but whether the very idea of everyone having one or more personal vehicles per household continues.

The connection between growing consumption (of everything) and economic and ecological models is inescapable but few people really want to tackle that elephant when never-ending growth is necessary to sustain a debt-based economy that masquerades as capitalism.
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Jul 9th, 2021 12:39 pm
thriftshopper [OP]
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Jul 9th, 2021 12:39 pm

ES_Revenge wrote: ↑ Launching? Hydrogen? Has that idea ever worked out well for anyone? lol
I suspect it is a chicken 'n egg situation. Which comes first and how is it (infrastructure/demand) developed.
Anyway doesn't Toyblowta have a hydrogen car they sell in California or whatever? It's slow as the ol' blackstrap though. I mean it is a Toyblowta so maybe it's just them I guess :shrug:
Mirai is sold in Québéc as well as 12 dealers in B.C.

https://www.toyota.ca/toyota/en/safety- ... cell-mirai
I smile when I see container ships sailing past my house laden with stuff made in China

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