Basement rental construction question - Mississauga

Tommy74 wrote: ↑Why would you even bother making it legal??? Don't waste your time.
Side story: owners in semi across the street moved out keeping property as rental. It is not registered as legal second unit. Roughly about 15 people living in that small semi right now. Basement is not up to code, still small original metal frame windows 20"x12". I think owners rented the house to 2 guys, but then those 2, sub-rented to another dozen. 4-5 cars every night on 2 car driveway ( they park on the grass, front steps, whenever they can). Zero front curb maintenance (weeds, garbage bins constantly out etc.)
Let's say your house will be the same - what the city can do? ZERO, nothing, nada. Trust me I called the 311 number to ask about garbage and rooming house conditions - they can't do anything. I would have to provide them with actual ads that the hose is listed for rent ( city worker told me that kijiji ads are fine) , they have no authority to go inside the house and check if the basement has safety escapes. Out of over 25.000 citizen complains about illegal dwellings in previous year they awarded ZERO fines. Nobody cares, owners come every month for they cash payments, tenants don't lift the finger around the house ( in the winter they jack up their skinny pants up to the knees and jump in the snow instead of shoveling a bit) , looks like the only miserable person is me. Don't waste your time om legal stuff, start collecting rent asap, it's a free ride for all.

miscbrah1 wrote: ↑ Fire inspector here and what kind of garbage are you spewing? We go into non-code confirming basement apartments/rooming houses all the time and we either get compliance or we lay charges.

People have gone to jail and have received massive fines for fire deaths/injuries.

And that's not even including you trying to explain to your insurance company that you rented out a basement apartment that wasn't safe.

It's not even that expensive to retrofit an existing basement apartment (as long as you're allowed to retrofit it for fire code), I would average it out to 1-5k to have a fire code compliant basement that was already existing. To save 1-5k for all that liability?

Zamboni wrote: ↑ I was about to post he should complain to Fire Marshall. You are low on making a basement fire code compliant though, Type X fire rated 5/8 drywall installed will eat that 1500 right up. Fire rated doors and in most cases an egress window isn't cheap, duct smoke detector that shuts down furnace is $400 installed. Not getting a secondary suite permit without ESA sign off, who knows what that inspection finds.

Tommy74 wrote: ↑ Why would you even bother making it legal??? Don't waste your time.
Side story: owners in semi across the street moved out keeping property as rental. It is not registered as legal second unit. Roughly about 15 people living in that small semi right now. Basement is not up to code, still small original metal frame windows 20"x12". I think owners rented the house to 2 guys, but then those 2, sub-rented to another dozen. 4-5 cars every night on 2 car driveway ( they park on the grass, front steps, whenever they can). Zero front curb maintenance (weeds, garbage bins constantly out etc.)
Let's say your house will be the same - what the city can do? ZERO, nothing, nada. Trust me I called the 311 number to ask about garbage and rooming house conditions - they can't do anything. I would have to provide them with actual ads that the hose is listed for rent ( city worker told me that kijiji ads are fine) , they have no authority to go inside the house and check if the basement has safety escapes. Out of over 25.000 citizen complains about illegal dwellings in previous year they awarded ZERO fines. Nobody cares, owners come every month for they cash payments, tenants don't lift the finger around the house ( in the winter they jack up their skinny pants up to the knees and jump in the snow instead of shoveling a bit) , looks like the only miserable person is me. Don't waste your time om legal stuff, start collecting rent asap, it's a free ride for all.

miscbrah1 wrote: ↑ There is a difference between retrofitting an existing basement dwelling to fire code(allowed only in certain circumstances), and getting a building permit for a secondary suite.

For the latter, you're correct, it is more expensive, unless parts of it are already built without a permit and was then forced to obtain a building permit to bring it up to OBC for the secondary suite.

However, retrofitting an existing basement dwelling (if allowed), will cost 1 TO 5K on average, based on my experience.

Zamboni wrote: ↑ No, I'm posting about retrofitting an existing basement dwelling to make it legal. Possibly in your position as Fire Inspector you only see the less expensive retrofits/upgrades, you deal with landlords who actually go through with upgrades because not a lot of work required.
Most illegal basement apartments I see require an egress window, don't have fire rated doors or any of the required fire separation. I'm not a boarder/mudder but would estimate on 700 sq ft basement apartment to install, mud & paint 5/8 type X drywall on the ceiling, furnace room walls, staircase walls, around support beams (even if steel) will eat that 5K budget alone. Most illegal basement suites were built with no regard for fire separation, no fire rated doors or proper drywall. Then there is the 5/8 drywall required above each opening in ceiling, every pot should have type X drywall in joist bay above about 11" past the light on both sides.
That is only drywall, and in Whitby the building department for past 10 years won't allow just installing the type X 5/8 drywall. The ceiling must be a UL listed assembly including drywall hung on resilient channel. In past in Oshawa I've seen building department allow just adding a layer of proper drywall but bet that has been tightened up. That is building department not Fire but comes into play to get occupancy permit.
Bringing electrical to code can be very expensive also. Like I said, in your position you must only see minor retrofits who apply. I'm on a team that does a few basements a year and avoid doing estimates to make basement apartments legal. You arrive and client "doesn't want to spend much" so doesn't want to hear his pot lights are all missing 10 cent restraints so must be reinstalled....and really doesn't want to hear about legal egress window sizes.

Zamboni wrote: ↑

miscbrah1 wrote: ↑ Fire inspector here and what kind of garbage are you spewing? We go into non-code confirming basement apartments/rooming houses all the time and we either get compliance or we lay charges.

People have gone to jail and have received massive fines for fire deaths/injuries.

And that's not even including you trying to explain to your insurance company that you rented out a basement apartment that wasn't safe.

It's not even that expensive to retrofit an existing basement apartment (as long as you're allowed to retrofit it for fire code), I would average it out to 1-5k to have a fire code compliant basement that was already existing. To save 1-5k for all that liability?