Credit Cards

BMO Cashback World Elite (10% first $2,000/3 months, 1.5% all purchases, free roadside assist, FYF)

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  • May 26th, 2022 9:33 pm
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Sr. Member
Dec 12, 2007
850 posts
364 upvotes
Toronto
Good for the 10% churn signup bonus and then cancel I guess .....
Deal Addict
Apr 23, 2017
1136 posts
1989 upvotes
EdisonL299 wrote: BMO keeps devaluing their premium cards...... :facepalm:
I just keyed in my 2020 spend figures into the old and new versions of this card (BMO Cashback W.E. MC) and the changes for me/my annual spend would be a devaluation of 22% in net annual earn.

This is even worse than their previous devaluation, when they reduced the flat earn rate from 1.75% to 1.50% (which was about a 14% devaluation).

The changes most effect those who spend primarily in non-bonus categories and put through higher spending numbers. If one spends little in non-bonus base, and doesn't spend more than $500/m on groceries, the changes will see an earning boost. However since this is marketed as a premium card, penalizing high spenders in base spend seems an odd choice.
Deal Guru
Dec 5, 2006
12028 posts
7112 upvotes
Markham
HermanH wrote: If one spends little in non-bonus base, and doesn't spend more than $500/m on groceries
They shouldn't get this card from the beginning in that case :)
Deal Addict
Apr 23, 2017
1136 posts
1989 upvotes
smartie wrote: They shouldn't get this card from the beginning in that case :)
Using the BMO Travel World Elite as a cashback to deposit account card (instead of for travel points) for base earn at 1.33% (and 2% bonus categories such as restaurants) would give me a 15% increase in annual cash back earn over using the 'new' nerfed BMO Cashback World Elite MC for cash back.

The BMO Cashback W.E. MC with these changes will now join the RBC Cash back W.E. MC in the 'not a good idea' for a card (for me) file. Too bad, as this, back when it was a 1.75% base earn card with no caps, was a simple easy to use card with a decent earn rate.
Deal Guru
Dec 5, 2006
12028 posts
7112 upvotes
Markham
HermanH wrote: Using the BMO Travel World Elite as a cashback to deposit account card (instead of for travel points) for base earn at 1.33% (and 2% bonus categories such as restaurants) would give me a 15% increase in annual cash back earn over using the 'new' nerfed BMO Cashback World Elite MC for cash back.
I am wondering whether this is part of their plan to switch to visa?

CSR: "you spending pattern doesn't fit this card, let me introduce our VISA to you "
Deal Addict
Apr 23, 2017
1136 posts
1989 upvotes
smartie wrote: I am wondering whether this is part of their plan to switch to visa?

CSR: "you spending pattern doesn't fit this card, let me introduce our VISA to you "
Good point.

When BMO introduced the Eclipse Visa Infinite I recall at the time thinking that, after one looks pasts all the smoke and mirrors, the net earn isn't really much different from their Cashback W.E. MC they already have (for my spending pattern). The Eclipse bonus categories are nice, but tanking the base earn to less than 1% more or less equals everything out in the end with no real gain - it is a marketing ploy, enticing one with big bonus category numbers while one actually ends up without any real gain at the end of the year.

By nerfing the Cashback W.E. MC base earn rate, they are making the BMO Eclipse Visa Infinite earn rate more attractive than it was before in comparison.
Deal Addict
Jul 15, 2009
2491 posts
1670 upvotes
smartie wrote: I am wondering whether this is part of their plan to switch to visa?

CSR: "you spending pattern doesn't fit this card, let me introduce our VISA to you "
If they were willing to give out the Visa WB for a PS from the nerfed MC, I would totally do that.

Too bad "Existing BMO credit card cardholders who transfer into this product during the Offer Period are not eligible for this offer." Guess I'll just have to cancel instead.
Deal Addict
Apr 23, 2017
1136 posts
1989 upvotes
BMO Cashback W.E. MC over the past few years.

High spending example of $200k per year

2015

BMO Cashback W.E. MC (1.75% flat earn rate, no caps) $3,500. annual cash back

Early 2020

BMO Cashback W.E. MC (1.50% flat earn rate, no caps) $3,000. annual cash back.

Mid 2021

BMO Cashback W.E. MC (1.00% base + assorted 5/3/2 capped bonus categories) $2,328. annual cash back (fairly upscaling my spending in these bonus categories to fit the higher $200k spend profile that I do not in reality reach)

One can see that high spenders with a profile roughly 75% in base spend/25% in bonus categories are getting a series of devaluations over the past 6 years, going from $3,500 to $3,000 to $2,328.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Throwing the Travel W.E. and Eclipse Visa travel cards into the mix:

2015

BMO (Travel) WE. MC (earn rate 2% flat no caps) $4,000 (one got a $500 premium over the cashback W.E. $3,500 earn to take the reward in travel dollars, rather than cash in hand)

Early 2020

BMO (Travel) W.E, annual earn is $2,990. vs the Cashback W.E earn of $3,000. (they earn basically the same, but in exchange for travel dollars instead of cash, one gets superior travel insurance (3 weeks medical vs 1 week, etc.) for $10 less in earn.

Late 2020

BMO Cashback W.E. $3,000.

BMO (Travel) W.E. $2,990.

BMO Eclipse V.I.P. $2,852.

BMO Eclipse V.I. $2,849.

So, BMO Cashback W.E, still the highest earner of the bunch. Why launch new 'higher earn' cards that are worse than the existing cards that are staying around? I wondered. Answer: Nerf the Cashback W.E. to make Eclipse cards more competitive.

Mid-2021

BMO (Travel) W.E. $2,990.

BMO Eclipse V.I.P. $2,852.

BMO Eclipse V.I. $2,849.

BMO Cashback W.E. $2,328.

But, Cashback is cash in hand, not travel dollars. So what if one takes the travel card rewards in cash as a deposit to BMO savings account? How does this change the earn in this example?

Mid-2021 Rewards Earn as cash deposit to BMO bank account

BMO (Travel) W.E. MC $2,768.

BMO Eclipse V.I. $2,652.

BMO Eclipse V.I.P. $2,640.

BMO Cashback W.E. $2,328.

So, we see that for this high spending, high base spend example, the 2021 nerfing of the Cashback W.E. takes it from first place in the Premium BMO stable earn to last place in Premium card earn in the BMO comparison.

Now, if one spends under $30k, and mostly in bonus categories, sure, this change is an improvement for you, maybe a big one. If your base spend is the primary use of the card (eg: You use Amex Cobalt or Scotia Gold Amex for even higher bonus categories earn of 5% for groceries and restaurants, and BMO Cashback only for base spend to get the higher 1.50% on base over the 1% Cobalt and SC Gold AX pay out on base spend, then this going to 1% base is a significant devaluation. There seems little reason to keep this cashback card to earn 1% on high base spend when cards offering 5% in bonus categories also pay the same 1% on base spend with no cap. The game is to get more than 1% on base spend, in addition to high bonus categories of 4-5%.
Deal Fanatic
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Apr 24, 2017
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HermanH wrote:
The game is to get more than 1% on base spend, in addition to high bonus categories of 4-5%.
I think you really need to apply for the MBNA RWE - 2% on everything with no caps. Annual fee is $120 and additional cards are free. It’s pretty much the same as the old BMO WE, except for the travel insurance.
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User avatar
Dec 3, 2017
2950 posts
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K-W/Guelph
HermanH wrote: BMO Cashback W.E. MC over the past few years.

High spending example of $200k per year

2015

BMO Cashback W.E. MC (1.75% flat earn rate, no caps) $3,500. annual cash back

Early 2020

BMO Cashback W.E. MC (1.50% flat earn rate, no caps) $3,000. annual cash back.

Mid 2021

BMO Cashback W.E. MC (1.00% base + assorted 5/3/2 capped bonus categories) $2,328. annual cash back (fairly upscaling my spending in these bonus categories to fit the higher $200k spend profile that I do not in reality reach)

One can see that high spenders with a profile roughly 75% in base spend/25% in bonus categories are getting a series of devaluations over the past 6 years, going from $3,500 to $3,000 to $2,328.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Throwing the Travel W.E. and Eclipse Visa travel cards into the mix:

2015

BMO (Travel) WE. MC (earn rate 2% flat no caps) $4,000 (one got a $500 premium over the cashback W.E. $3,500 earn to take the reward in travel dollars, rather than cash in hand)

Early 2020

BMO (Travel) W.E, annual earn is $2,990. vs the Cashback W.E earn of $3,000. (they earn basically the same, but in exchange for travel dollars instead of cash, one gets superior travel insurance (3 weeks medical vs 1 week, etc.) for $10 less in earn.

Late 2020

BMO Cashback W.E. $3,000.

BMO (Travel) W.E. $2,990.

BMO Eclipse V.I.P. $2,852.

BMO Eclipse V.I. $2,849.

So, BMO Cashback W.E, still the highest earner of the bunch. Why launch new 'higher earn' cards that are worse than the existing cards that are staying around? I wondered. Answer: Nerf the Cashback W.E. to make Eclipse cards more competitive.

Mid-2021

BMO (Travel) W.E. $2,990.

BMO Eclipse V.I.P. $2,852.

BMO Eclipse V.I. $2,849.

BMO Cashback W.E. $2,328.

But, Cashback is cash in hand, not travel dollars. So what if one takes the travel card rewards in cash as a deposit to BMO savings account? How does this change the earn in this example?

Mid-2021 Rewards Earn as cash deposit to BMO bank account

BMO (Travel) W.E. MC $2,768.

BMO Eclipse V.I. $2,652.

BMO Eclipse V.I.P. $2,640.

BMO Cashback W.E. $2,328.

So, we see that for this high spending, high base spend example, the 2021 nerfing of the Cashback W.E. takes it from first place in the Premium BMO stable earn to last place in Premium card earn in the BMO comparison.

Now, if one spends under $30k, and mostly in bonus categories, sure, this change is an improvement for you, maybe a big one. If your base spend is the primary use of the card (eg: You use Amex Cobalt or Scotia Gold Amex for even higher bonus categories earn of 5% for groceries and restaurants, and BMO Cashback only for base spend to get the higher 1.50% on base over the 1% Cobalt and SC Gold AX pay out on base spend, then this going to 1% base is a significant devaluation. There seems little reason to keep this cashback card to earn 1% on high base spend when cards offering 5% in bonus categories also pay the same 1% on base spend with no cap. The game is to get more than 1% on base spend, in addition to high bonus categories of 4-5%.
Actually around 2015 I believe the BMO world elite card had a 2% earn rate. In fact I remember when I got the BMO SPC Mastercard back in 2017, the World Elite was a 2% card.

It was devalued shortly after that point to 1.75%, then to 1.5%, to where it is now. It has really fallen from grace over the years but I think it's a sign of the inevitable. The federal government keeps putting pressure on credit card companies to lower their interchange fees which in turn lowers rewards. This stuff is going to continue for a while unfortunately.
Deal Addict
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Nov 5, 2006
1602 posts
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Aw, man! This card will be the equivalent of Dog FacePile Of Poo now. Face With Look Of TriumphRelieved Face
Deal Addict
Feb 17, 2015
1082 posts
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Windsor, ON
The problem with the new categories is the $500 cap then the drop to 1% afterwards, most of us that use this card properly benefit more from just spending 3K a month @ 1.5% at least I did, it is literally going to be on a churn list now lol
Member
Jun 22, 2016
418 posts
300 upvotes
Not important
Anybody think this would be a good card for me ? I spend less than 300 at traditional grocery stores. The rest I spend at Costco, maybe 200 a month. I have a long commute so a lot on gas. We don’t really go out to eat anymore and definitely do not order take out. We aren’t big spenders and have no other recurring bills other than cell phone (60 total for the both of us). Need a need card but not sure if this is the one.

Note, will not touch Scotia as they have insane income verification processes. Wasted a hard check on them. They wouldn’t take a work letter and wanted to call my HR or paystubs from both of us. I was a banking customer for over 15 years with excellent history.
Member
User avatar
Oct 12, 2020
455 posts
684 upvotes
Ontario
Lag333 wrote: Anybody think this would be a good card for me ? I spend less than 300 at traditional grocery stores. The rest I spend at Costco, maybe 200 a month. I have a long commute so a lot on gas. We don’t really go out to eat anymore and definitely do not order take out. We aren’t big spenders and have no other recurring bills other than cell phone (60 total for the both of us). Need a need card but not sure if this is the one.

Note, will not touch Scotia as they have insane income verification processes. Wasted a hard check on them. They wouldn’t take a work letter and wanted to call my HR or paystubs from both of us. I was a banking customer for over 15 years with excellent history.
I've done some rough calculations and with the new cat. on BMO CB WE, it looks like you will be earning roughly $398 in gross CB annually (assuming $300 on Groc, $400 on Gas, $200 on Costco, $60 on PAP, and $300 for 'Everything Else') per month. This would mean a net earning of $278 after AF deductions. You could have a bank account with them to reduce the AF, but that's a discussion for another thread.

I've also decided to plug the same numbers for a CIBC Dividend VI for possibly better earnings. It gives you $386 in gross CB ($266 in net CB) annually, but this isn't accounting for the Costco purchases. If you're willing to go for a 2-card solution, pick out a MasterCard that gives you 1% to 1.5% on the E.E. cat. with no AF. Depending on your income level, think Rogers MC/WE MC, and that should give you some ideas. Assuming 1.5% on your Costco purchases alongside your CIBC Dividend VI which will be your primary card, your annual earnings now become $422 in gross CB ($302 in net CB).

Ultimately, point being, there are other multi-card solutions out there that could maximize your earnings further. But for whatever reason, if you're strictly on a 1-card solution, that 5% on Groceries and 3% on Gas (which take the majority of your spending) is hard to beat.
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Member
Jun 22, 2016
418 posts
300 upvotes
Not important
Wydrazor wrote: I've done some rough calculations and with the new cat. on BMO CB WE, it looks like you will be earning roughly $398 in gross CB annually (assuming $300 on Groc, $400 on Gas, $200 on Costco, $60 on PAP, and $300 for 'Everything Else') per month. This would mean a net earning of $278 after AF deductions. You could have a bank account with them to reduce the AF, but that's a discussion for another thread.

I've also decided to plug the same numbers for a CIBC Dividend VI for possibly better earnings. It gives you $386 in gross CB ($266 in net CB) annually, but this isn't accounting for the Costco purchases. If you're willing to go for a 2-card solution, pick out a MasterCard that gives you 1% to 1.5% on the E.E. cat. with no AF. Depending on your income level, think Rogers MC/WE MC, and that should give you some ideas. Assuming 1.5% on your Costco purchases alongside your CIBC Dividend VI which will be your primary card, your annual earnings now become $422 in gross CB ($302 in net CB).

Ultimately, point being, there are other multi-card solutions out there that could maximize your earnings further. But for whatever reason, if you're strictly on a 1-card solution, that 5% on Groceries and 3% on Gas (which take the majority of your spending) is hard to beat.
Thanks for all that detail !!! Looks like I should get the CIBC one you mentioned. I already have a 1% no fee one so this combo would work !
Jr. Member
Dec 15, 2017
194 posts
134 upvotes
HermanH wrote: Now, if one spends under $30k, and mostly in bonus categories, sure, this change is an improvement for you, maybe a big one.
I am probably one of the few people here who do not mind the changes, since I do spend around $500 on groceries and I do have a bus pass. But it is true BMO cards used to be way better, in fact I would say they were the best. I remember the BMO world elite MasterCard had a promotion in 2014 where you got the card at no annual fee for 4 years.
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Member
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Oct 12, 2020
455 posts
684 upvotes
Ontario
Lag333 wrote: Thanks for all that detail !!! Looks like I should get the CIBC one you mentioned. I already have a 1% no fee one so this combo would work !
Happy to help Smiling Face With Open Mouth

The good thing with Dividend VI is, starting February of this year, they changed how the cash back is distributed, so now you can cash out your balance whenever you want. It has 4% on the 2 categories you spend most of your money on (Groceries and Gas), so it's beneficial. I've had it, so I can recommend it!
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Deal Expert
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Jan 12, 2017
18930 posts
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Scarberia
is it worth downgrading this card to anything BMO or just cancel it outright? i haven't used this card in months since i got my all of my used up 10%cb in october 2020, i don't even use the free roadside as i have cdn tire WE
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Sr. Member
Dec 12, 2007
850 posts
364 upvotes
Toronto
mikka2017 wrote: is it worth downgrading this card to anything BMO or just cancel it outright? i haven't used this card in months since i got my all of my used up 10%cb in october 2020, i don't even use the free roadside as i have cdn tire WE
Downgrade to the regular bmo cash back card and start shopping at Walmart or groceries for 3% cash back

I did it after 3 months of obtaining the WE version since the cash back 1.5% and RSA was a duplication of my other cards as I already had capital one aspire 1.5% grandfathered card as well as Rogers WE. Also same as you I had triangle WE for RSA so I didn’t feel any of the cards features would be useful after the $200 churn.

But the regular bmo card is useful for Walmart and groceries so I did a product transfer to that
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Jan 12, 2017
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do they wave AF if u keep like 6k in bank bmo account? tia
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