Personal Finance

BNS Momentum Chequing Thread

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  • Mar 23rd, 2019 9:59 am
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BNS Momentum Chequing Thread

Thought this rather odd product would warrant its own thread.

Link to BNS product page.

Highlights:
  • Monthly fee that cannot be waived with minimum balance or multi-product
  • 1% cashback VISA debit on up to $30k/yr spend for $300 max cashback
  • The rest is typical à la BNS (two free monthly e-transfers, two no fee off network ATM withdrawals)
  • Chequebooks are PPU and paper statements have monthly fee
  • Cashback payout once a year
xgbsSS wrote: Calculated from November 1 to October 31, paid last busIness day the followIng November, as per their T&C.

Monthly fee adds up to $191.40/yr. If one hits the $30k/yr, that's $108.60 profit above the account maintenance fee. Cashback is obviously over and above the merchant fee on VISA debit, meaning BNS is hoping most will not put them at a calculated loss of $108.60 year over year.

This may be ok for those who don't intend on keeping a $3-6k+ float in a big bank chequing account.

Outlets for VISA debit (where CC is not accepted)
  • PayTM - effective 2019. This works for all payees (your credit cards, even Mogo prepaid). Prior could only load PayTM with VISA debit at Canada Post (where all debit cards work)
  • Stack MC - meaning when you load Stack with BNS Momentum debit, and withdraw at forex ATM, you earn over and above the MC exchange rate. Might work for some other prepaid cards
  • PayPal
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[OP]
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Anyone know frequency of cashback redemptions?

@dekvitaly should be all over this thread.
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So for PayTM, do you get CB for adding cash to the PayTM account or paying a bill directly? I tried before (back in 2018) and didn't get CB from Scotia
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Very strange that the Momentum chequing account doesn't even appear on their main chequing account web page. How did you even find it? If you get the Momentum chequing, you would have to pay 15.95 per month to get that 1% cash back as you mentioned. But if you get the Scotia One chequing, or their Basic Banking Chequing, you also earn either travel points or Scene points when you use their card. I'm not sure what the percentage is, although I think it's minimal unless you spend it at the movie theatre.
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Bull Dog wrote: Very strange that the Momentum chequing account doesn't even appear on their main chequing account web page. How did you even find it? If you get the Momentum chequing, you would have to pay 15.95 per month to get that 1% cash back as you mentioned. But if you get the Scotia One chequing, or their Basic Banking Chequing, you also earn either travel points or Scene points when you use their card. I'm not sure what the percentage is, although I think it's minimal unless you spend it at the movie theatre.
ScotiaOne is 0.2% return in pts, $4k min bal to waive monthly fee. No option for fee waiver on Momentum chq.
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Do you feel comfortable giving PayTM your banking info? Or would you keep just enough in the Momentum chequing to pay bills, not use it as your payroll deposit account, and not worry if it got compromised.
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Bull Dog wrote: Do you feel comfortable giving PayTM your banking info? Or would you keep just enough in the Momentum chequing to pay bills, not use it as your payroll deposit account, and not worry if it got compromised.
To get the cashback, you would have to load the cash at Canada Post, so PayTM shouldn't have your chequing info. Directly billing via PayTM gives them your info and doesn't get you the cashback.

Personally I went with keeping my account as Scotia One using the free Scene debit (switching to Scotia passport debit) and using the post office for loading. Scotia Passport points work out to 0.20% return with the debit on travel purchases. Scene Points also equates to 0.20% if I redeem at Harvey's, etc. I most certainly travel every year so this is easy enough to redeem. Canada Post loaded PayTM cash is also instantaneous and the bill payment is fulfilled quicker.

The combo will create an effective yield of 0.30% if done correctly. $500 per day max PayTM cash loads at the post office is annoying though. And even if this increased, Scotia limits the points earned per transaction at $1500, and $3000 per day.
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xgbsSS wrote: To get the cashback, you would have to load the cash at Canada Post, so PayTM shouldn't have your chequing info. Directly billing via PayTM gives them your info and doesn't get you the cashback.

Personally I went with keeping my account as Scotia One using the free Scene debit (switching to Scotia passport debit) and using the post office for loading. Scotia Passport points work out to 0.20% return with the debit on travel purchases. Scene Points also equates to 0.20% if I redeem at Harvey's, etc. I most certainly travel every year so this is easy enough to redeem. Canada Post loaded PayTM cash is also instantaneous and the bill payment is fulfilled quicker.

The combo will create an effective yield of 0.30% if done correctly. $500 per day max loads is annoying though. And even if this increased, Scotia limits the points earned per transaction at $1500, and per day.
Awesome answer ! I'd have to spend 1600.00 per month to make back the monthly fee that Scotia charges compared to a Scotia One account if I kept 4000.00 balance. I guess that's not too hard considering I'd be paying off all my credit card bills. Or if you want to be compensated for the 0.2% ( not sure how you get 0.3% ) that I would have gotten off the Scotia One debit card, I'd have to spend 2000 per month . I'm not sure if I spend that much on my credit cards, I never checked.
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Bull Dog wrote:
Awesome answer ! I'd have to spend 1600.00 per month to make back the monthly fee that Scotia charges compared to a Scotia One account if I kept 4000.00 balance. I guess that's not too hard considering I'd be paying off all my credit card bills. Or if you want to be compensated for the 0.2% ( not sure how you get 0.3% ) that I would have gotten off the Scotia One debit card, I'd have to spend 2000 per month . I'm not sure if I spend that much on my credit cards, I never checked.
0.30%= 0.20% Scotia Debit Reward +0.10% PayTM Bill Payment reward.

Keep in mind that yield only works on the most efficient reward redemptions.

PayTM has had 5x Credit Card Point bonuses so last month and this month, the reward yield is 0.70%.

Depending on your debit card usage, another option is Basic Banking Plan at Scotia. $10.95 fee waived at $3000 for 25 transactions. This means maximum load with PayTM without fees of $12500 per month without debit fees. Since my sole use of my debit is this, this account is probably what I should drop down to

My problem right now is my credit card balance is higher due to my RRSP contributions (Sask Pension). A monthly basis I also have my $600ish insurance premium and $1k-$3k I want to invest in my brokerage account. Credit card spending varies but $2-$3k a month. I have to decide whether going to the post office so frequently for about $1 in rewards per load is worth my time. (Real answer is yes if you are a true RFDer ;) )
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xgbsSS wrote: 0.30%= 0.20% Scotia Debit Reward +0.10% PayTM Bill Payment reward.

Keep in mind that yield only works on the most efficient reward redemptions.

PayTM has had 5x Credit Card Point bonuses so last month and this month, the reward yield is 0.70%.

Depending on your debit card usage, another option is Basic Banking Plan at Scotia. $10.95 fee waived at $3000 for 25 transactions. This means maximum load with PayTM without fees of $12500 per month without debit fees. Since my sole use of my debit is this, this account is probably what I should drop down to

My problem right now is my credit card balance is higher due to my RRSP contributions (Sask Pension). A monthly basis I also have my $600ish insurance premium and $1k-$3k I want to invest in my brokerage account. Credit card spending varies but $2-$3k a month. I have to decide whether going to the post office so frequently for about $1 in rewards per load is worth my time. (Real answer is yes if you are a true RFDer ;) )
If you just keep an extra 1000.00 in your bank account ( and switch to Scotia One) you could have unlimited transactions, not 25, and then you could go every day of month to post office, and load 500.00 each time = 15,000 dollars per month you can load onto payTM cash. That's an extra 2500.00 a month you can pay off your credit cards :)

I have Saskatchewan Pension Plan too. It lost 2% in 2018, disappointing, but not too bad considering XBAL ( IShare's all in one fund ) lost 2.5%.
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So BNS Momentum Chequing to get the account free is $1595 in spending per month. To break even and out earn the free options is

$3.19 = reward earned "free option" (Scotia One, Basic
etc.) on $1595 in spending
x = spending per month where Momentum
breaks even and beats the "free options"

$3.19 + 0.002x = 0.01x
$3.19=0.008x
x= $398.75

So $1595 + $398.75 = $1993.75

So using Scotia Momentum is worth it compared to Scotia One etc. if you spend $1993.75 per month on debit.

Hmm.... maybe I gotta switch accounts again ;)

But the cap is $300 and max effectivereward return is $108.60

Using monthly fee balance waivers, spending over $54300 per year means I start earning more than Scotia Momentum with Scotia One/Basic which equals around $4525 a month. Sigh..... so complicated.

So summary

<$1993.75 per month, go with Scotia One/Basic
$1993.75 to $4525, go with Scotia Momentum
> $4525, go with Scotia One/ Basic

*Assuming your transactions are max $500 and $1500 per day, you have at least $3k or $4k minimum balance throughout the month

And if we wanted to be even more picky....

Scotia Momentum Chequing has no fee waivers. $4000 in a savings account at Motive earning 2.8% cash earns 30.68 cents per day. Let's say 30 days a month means $9.21 in lost interest. An Oaken 5year GIC earns 3.6% meaning 39.45 cents and $11.84 a month.

So breakeven on Momentum Chequing will drop if interest rates increase. Assuming using Motive...
breakeven today on the Momentum chequing is actually $674 of monthly spending per month since $15.95-$9.21.

The breakeven for the free accounts past the $300 max cap for Momentum also goes up. This means $108.60+ $112 interest = effective max return
$220.60

This means $110300 annual spend is the highend breakeven point for free accounts or $9191.67

So factoring interest....

<$674 Scotia One
$674-$9192 Scotia Momentum
>$9192 Scotia One

Someone please dont mention income tax on interest income ;)
Last edited by xgbsSS on Mar 2nd, 2019 8:11 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Bull Dog wrote: If you just keep an extra 1000.00 in your bank account ( and switch to Scotia One) you could have unlimited transactions, not 25, and then you could go every day of month to post office, and load 500.00 each time = 15,000 dollars per month you can load onto payTM cash. That's an extra 2500.00 a month you can pay off your credit cards :)

I have Saskatchewan Pension Plan too. It lost 2% in 2018, disappointing, but not too bad considering XBAL ( IShare's all in one fund ) lost 2.5%.
But there is no need to go to Scotia One really. I use my debit card literally just for PayTM. So that means I can only theoretically load my PayTM 26 to 28 times a month (My Canada Post is only open weekdays). Knowing my bills, I probably dont have $12500 a month. The bigger question is whether goIng everyday to the post office is worth it :P

2018 was a down year for most investors. But already notice the +3% return in January ;) ?
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xgbsSS wrote: So BNS Momentum Chequing to get the account free is $1595 in spending per month. To break even and out earn the free options is

$3.19 = reward earned "free option" (Scotia One, Basic
etc.) on $1595 in spending
x = spending per month where Momentum
breaks even and beats the "free options"

$3.19 + 0.002x = 0.01x
$3.19=0.008x
x= $398.75

So $1595 + $398.75 = $1993.75

So using Scotia Momentum is worth it compared to Scotia One etc. if you spend $1993.75 per month on debit.

Hmm.... maybe I gotta switch accounts again ;)

But the cap is $300 and max effectivereward return is $108.60

Using monthly fee balance waivers, spending over $54300 per year means I start earning more than Scotia Momentum with Scotia One/Basic which equals around $4525 a month. Sigh..... so complicated.

So summary

<$1993.75 per month, go with Scotia One/Basic
$1993.75 to $4525, go with Scotia Momentum
> $4525, go with Scotia One/ Basic

*Assuming your transactions are max $500 and $1500 per day, you have at least $3k or $4k minimum balance throughout the month
I think it's likely you will spend more than 2000 dollars a month and less than 54,300 a year on your debit card so it probably pays for you to switch to Scotia Momentum chequing.
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Bull Dog wrote: I think it's likely you will spend more than 2000 dollars a month and less than 54,300 a year on your debit card so it probably pays for you to switch to Scotia Momentum chequing.
Actually no, once I include my "bill payment" of my brokerage account, I am probably going to be over $4-5k, Basic will be the best.
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xgbsSS wrote: Actually no, once I include my "bill payment" of my brokerage account, I am probably going to be over $4-5k, Basic will be the best.
If you are spending 5K a month with your debit, you are going every 3 days to the post office !!!!
I never analyzed my finances as thoroughly as you, this has been very educational for me. Thank you for all your advice.

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