Shopping Discussion

The Brick - payment protection plan scam

[OP]
Newbie
Jul 27, 2020
12 posts
12 upvotes

The Brick - payment protection plan scam

Hi, this is embarassing but putting it out there because it might help someone. I bought some furniture from The Brick in August 2017 with financing options. I just realized yesterday that I have been paying for some TGI (trans global insurance) payment protection insurance plan for past 3 years (~$1200). I am a lazy person and I don't usually check my finances, but COVID has made me watch every penny and this came as a complete shock, I know I am partly responsible. The bottomline is that I had no idea I was signed up for this, I bought a 5 year extended warranty with the furniture (another scam) and payment protection is not something I would ever sign up for. So the salesperson somehow got this going for me without my knowledge. I have made a few calls and got this insurance cancelled, but I am wondering if I can recoup any of my lost money. TGI told me that they will investigate with the merchant and get back to me in 10 business days. I am not too optimistic about that, and I am sure the Brick will produce some document that I might have signed during the purchase.

Just wondering if anyone else had a similar experince and if they got their money refunded? Any guidance is appreciated.

Thank you.
59 replies
Deal Addict
User avatar
Jan 3, 2014
3117 posts
2740 upvotes
Vancouver(ish)
Tsam44 wrote: Hi, this is embarassing but putting it out there because it might help someone. I bought some furniture from The Brick in August 2017 with financing options. I just realized yesterday that I have been paying for some TGI (trans global insurance) payment protection insurance plan for past 3 years (~$1200). I am a lazy person and I don't usually check my finances, but COVID has made me watch every penny and this came as a complete shock, I know I am partly responsible. The bottomline is that I had no idea I was signed up for this,
While I understand how companies sometimes sign people up for these extra coverages, in this case it has been three years. This would have been no surprise for anyone who was looking at their bank statements even semi-regularly.

I suspect there will be a copy of the application you signed that included this as an add-on option, and if that's the case, they have you there. Add to that the length of time that you have been paying it without objection, and it's easy to establish an intent to have this additional coverage.

If you're being legitimate about your being sold this extra coverage you did not want, I certainly hope you get your dollars back. However, I don't really like your chances since your 'laziness' as you put it certainly has a negative impact on your "I didn't want it..." claim.
Proud RFD member since January 31, 2007. Feel free to add 3,034 to my post count.
[OP]
Newbie
Jul 27, 2020
12 posts
12 upvotes
I get that, but I don't think it's fair to push the blame on the customer and let companies get away with such things. We cannot let companies get away with shady selling tactics by saying that oh the cusyomer didn't check. No the customer should not have to check, bussinesses need to make sure that they don't miss sell. I am sure there are thousands of customers out there, elderly or disabled people who don't have the same access, customers who don't understand or are not literate enough, to read and understand their CC statements, are we going to turn out backs and say that the customer should have known, yeah I don't think so.
Deal Expert
Aug 22, 2006
28883 posts
14418 upvotes
Tsam44 wrote: No the customer should not have to check
100% disagree. Even if not malicious, errors happen.
, bussinesses need to make sure that they don't miss sell.
In this case, they didn't miss sell. They sold it perfectly.
I am sure there are thousands of customers out there, elderly or disabled people who don't have the same access, customers who don't understand or are not literate enough, to read and understand their CC statements, are we going to turn out backs and say that the customer should have known, yeah I don't think so.
While probably true, there's assistance out there for most cases.

Even if you aren't literate enough to understand the legalese, it takes no effort to question why there's an additional $40/month charge at the bottom line.

If you truly aren't capable of interpreting a contract you're about to sign, you probably shouldn't sign it without some sort of assistance.
Do you not have anything else to do rather than argue with strangers on the internet
Nope. That's why I'm on the internet arguing with strangers. If I had anything better to do I'd probably be doing it.
Deal Fanatic
User avatar
Jan 31, 2006
7895 posts
2269 upvotes
Toronto
Tsam44 wrote: I get that, but I don't think it's fair to push the blame on the customer and let companies get away with such things. We cannot let companies get away with shady selling tactics by saying that oh the cusyomer didn't check. No the customer should not have to check, bussinesses need to make sure that they don't miss sell. I am sure there are thousands of customers out there, elderly or disabled people who don't have the same access, customers who don't understand or are not literate enough, to read and understand their CC statements, are we going to turn out backs and say that the customer should have known, yeah I don't think so.
It is not only "The Brick" doing that, even Best Buy, Staples, and others doing that too. If you simple signed and did not read/understand what you signed then there is no one to blame but yourself.
Deal Expert
Feb 7, 2017
22257 posts
20869 upvotes
Eastern Ontario
Normally, I would prob have little sympathy
READ BEFORE YOU SIGN A CONTACT

But when it comes to The Brick ... they have a pretty bad reputation
Just GOGGLE to read tons of horror stories
(In addition to all the threads here on RFD ... the FORUMS are SEARCHABLE BTW ... look for the SEARCH BOX top right in any Forum’s Directory)

Unfortunately you got caught in one of them

There have been others before you
(So many that there are legal cases ... and the Govt has got involved https://www.thestar.com/business/2013/0 ... romos.html )

But still they seem to find slimey ways to skirt the law
And prey on unsuspecting FIRST TIME FURNITURE BUYERS

I say FIRST TIME
Cuz that’s their bread & butter
As most people who have been duped once
Don’t tend to go back for a second round

As an aside ...
I see you are an RFD Newbie
So welcome ... sad this is your first post
For future reference I suggest you always check in here BEFORE you make any future big purchases (Or small ones)
You can certainly learn a lot
Hopefully your post ... will also help another newbie from getting caught like you did
Newbie
Dec 16, 2012
74 posts
19 upvotes
London
I also did financing at Teppermans quite a few years ago and found during the signing of the agreement the protection plan. I remember signing it and then asking the person about it after. They brushed me off a little but I asked how I could cancel it. I was told I'd have to mail an official letter of refusal within 30 days or something weird to get out of it. So I went home feeling stupid but read through the documents and saw I could indeed get out of it. I sent both an email and mailed a registered letter to the address given. I got out of it but lesson learned. Read everything you can before signing. I imagine if you read over your financing agreement it's in there, if not, good luck with your case. You technically recieved the benefit of the protection plan during this time although you didn't want or use it, so if you signed it in your finance agreement I imagine you are out of luck.
[OP]
Newbie
Jul 27, 2020
12 posts
12 upvotes
@death_hawk contracts are supposed to be transparent. As a customer I am not obliged to check my statements, but as a business they are obliged to make sure no miss selling happens. This is a clear case of miss selling and I have already initiated legal actions. Everyone has the freedom to shop and sign contracts, wheather literate or illeterate. When u eat at a restaurant you don't go into the kitchen and look into the drawers, you rely on the restaurant to do their job. Imagine telling a food sick customer that you should have checked the food before eating. Also, I bought furniture on a financing plan which didn't require me to make any payments for 2 years. The installments kicked in after 2 years, I had no reason to check any statement.
Sr. Member
Jan 4, 2019
696 posts
737 upvotes
Tsam44 wrote: @death_hawk contracts are supposed to be transparent. As a customer I am not obliged to check my statements, but as a business they are obliged to make sure no miss selling happens. This is a clear case of miss selling and I have already initiated legal actions. Everyone has the freedom to shop and sign contracts, wheather literate or illeterate. When u eat at a restaurant you don't go into the kitchen and look into the drawers, you rely on the restaurant to do their job. Imagine telling a food sick customer that you should have checked the food before eating. Also, I bought furniture on a financing plan which didn't require me to make any payments for 2 years. The installments kicked in after 2 years, I had no reason to check any statement.
"As a customer I am not obliged to check my statements,"
Yes, you are. Ignorance is bliss. Or, in this case. Ignorance costs $1200.
[OP]
Newbie
Jul 27, 2020
12 posts
12 upvotes
@death_hawk I disagree. No customer should ever have to check their statements to make sure some business is not pulling a scam or a fraud on them. It's good for you to check and be on top of your spendings etc etc, but that should NEVER EVER EVER equate to "your responsibility" that you didn't catch a fraud. This narrative has to change. A business needs to do the right thing, doesn't matter wheather a customer is being cocky, super responsible, or just lazy. That's not in the terms of the contract either. No contract ever says that "oh by the way check your statements regularly or else we won't be liable for the fraud that we are pulling on you."

If a customer didn't agree for something or was not made aware of that 1 single hidden imp line in the 1000 lines of a contract then no matter wheather a customer wakes up the next day or the next decade, it's still unethical for the business to sell something that way.
Deal Addict
Jun 13, 2009
1028 posts
791 upvotes
Toronto
Tsam44 wrote: @death_hawk I disagree. No customer should ever have to check their statements to make sure some business is not pulling a scam or a fraud on them.
Fraud is considered a crime because whatever happens, happens without your permission. How will you ever find about something happening without your permission, if you don't do your own due diligence in reviewing your contracts and checking your monthly statements? You have a responsibilty over your own affairs. There is no way for a credit card company or a bank, to know that you are being billed for something you did not sign up for. It is on you to tell them.

I'm not justifying instances where they sneak in terms, or pull the wool over your eyes. If you did not sign up for this insurance, you should get your money back. But now that so much time has passed, it can make things more difficult.
Deal Expert
Aug 22, 2006
28883 posts
14418 upvotes
Tsam44 wrote: @death_hawk contracts are supposed to be transparent.
Most contracts are transparent.
As a customer I am not obliged to check my statements, but as a business they are obliged to make sure no miss selling happens.
Sure you are. And this isn't a miss sell.
It's a perfectly valid value added service. I personally decline to take it, but I can certainly see why it's a thing.
If you're living paycheck to paycheck and you lose your job, your loan doesn't get defaulted on. There is no scam or fraud here.
This is a clear case of miss selling and I have already initiated legal actions.
You're going to be laughed out of court the minute you say you didn't read your contract.
Everyone has the freedom to shop and sign contracts, wheather literate or illeterate.
I never disputed this. But the LAST thing you do is sign something you don't understand.
Since you seem to be fine retaining legal council, take it to your lawyer to explain it to you.
When u eat at a restaurant you don't go into the kitchen and look into the drawers, you rely on the restaurant to do their job.
I don't get how this relates.
A more likely scenario that relates to a restaurant is that you order something by off the menu without reading what the ingredients are and then you complain later that it has tomatoes.
Also, I bought furniture on a financing plan which didn't require me to make any payments for 2 years. The installments kicked in after 2 years, I had no reason to check any statement.
You wouldn't need to check your statements if you read your contract before signing it.
I would still recommend checking your statements just in case an error happens.
Tsam44 wrote: @death_hawk I disagree. No customer should ever have to check their statements to make sure some business is not pulling a scam or a fraud on them.
In this case, The Brick isn't pulling a scam or defrauding you.
They're providing a value added service that you agreed to pay for.
It's good for you to check and be on top of your spendings etc etc, but that should NEVER EVER EVER equate to "your responsibility" that you didn't catch a fraud.
I agree. Except in your case, no fraud was committed.
This narrative has to change. A business needs to do the right thing, doesn't matter wheather a customer is being cocky, super responsible, or just lazy. That's not in the terms of the contract either. No contract ever says that "oh by the way check your statements regularly or else we won't be liable for the fraud that we are pulling on you."
The hilarious thing is... it's actually in a lot of financial contracts that says exactly this. Read your statements to ensure they're correct because after X time you can't raise a dispute if there's an error.
But since you didn't read this contract, I highly doubt you've read your other contracts.
How do I know this? I've read my contract.
If a customer didn't agree for something or was not made aware of that 1 single hidden imp line in the 1000 lines of a contract then no matter wheather a customer wakes up the next day or the next decade, it's still unethical for the business to sell something that way.
Stuff like this is usually on the front page alongside how much financing is going to cost etc.
Even if it was on the back page, you could easily skim it to find the numbers.
Or if you can't find it, ask the person issuing you the contract to see how much you're paying.
There's zero excuse to not 100% exactly how much you're paying and why you're paying it.
Do you not have anything else to do rather than argue with strangers on the internet
Nope. That's why I'm on the internet arguing with strangers. If I had anything better to do I'd probably be doing it.
Deal Expert
Aug 22, 2006
28883 posts
14418 upvotes
Tsam44 wrote: As a customer I am not obliged to check my statements
Just for giggles I pulled up my credit card agreement:

https://www.capitalone.ca/assets/pdf/4p ... 408129.pdf

Telling us about statement errors.
You are responsible for informing us of any errors on your monthly
statement. If you don’t notify us of an error within 30 days of receiving
your statement, you accept the monthly statement and our records as
accurate and complete.


So technically speaking, you're not obligated to check your statement, but if there's any error on it, you're bound by it if you don't report it within 30 days.
I'm not sure what your contract says specifically, but I guarantee you there's a similar clause.

Not that this is an error anyways since you agreed to purchase this insurance when you signed the contract.
In the same contract, there's probably a clause on how you can cancel it.
Do you not have anything else to do rather than argue with strangers on the internet
Nope. That's why I'm on the internet arguing with strangers. If I had anything better to do I'd probably be doing it.
Deal Expert
Aug 22, 2006
28883 posts
14418 upvotes
Just for more giggles, I decided to look up this payment protection plan's terms and conditions.

Now... since it's been 2 years, you may have a different contract, but let's assume that this is the same one.

In the insurance certificate you didn't read, the second major headline outlines how to cancel and what you get when you cancel.
It's not even deep into the legalese. It's before Part A.

https://transglobalinsurance.ca/wp-cont ... ick-En.pdf

HOW TO CANCEL THIS INSURANCE
Upon receipt of this Certificate, if You do not want this insurance, return this Certificate within 30 days and ask Us in writing to cancel, and any premiums charged, pursuant to the Group Policies noted above and to this Certificate, will be refunded on Your Brick Card account. You can cancel anytime after 30 days by sending Us a request in writing but you will not be entitled to any refund of premiums charged.


What's worse is that this is barely a 2 page contract with half of it not applying to you (because it's either employed or self employed) so it's basically a page and a half.

In case you don't want to read it again now that's it's important, you're free to cancel, but you're not getting a dime in terms of a refund.
The funny thing is... if you've lost your job due to COVID, this insurance may actually help you. But depending on when you lost your job, it may be already too late to apply this insurance since you have 15 days to invoke this insurance from the day you become unemployed. Without knowing how much your payments are to The Brick, if you remain unemployed for any serious length of time, you could actually "make" money on this because they pay out up to 12 months of payments.
Last edited by death_hawk on Jul 30th, 2020 5:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Do you not have anything else to do rather than argue with strangers on the internet
Nope. That's why I'm on the internet arguing with strangers. If I had anything better to do I'd probably be doing it.
Deal Expert
Aug 22, 2006
28883 posts
14418 upvotes
Tsam44 wrote: As a customer I am not obliged to check my statements
So I'm still bored. I decided to do some reading for you.
Assuming you have the BRICK VISA DESJARDINS CARD for financing, here's the cardholder agreement that you didn't read.

The cardholder agrees and accepts that his monthly account statement constitutes
conclusive proof of indebtedness and agrees to pay the indebtedness shown on
his monthly account statement in accordance with the terms of this agreement. The
cardholder agrees to review each monthly statement
and if an error is found, the
cardholder must tell Desjardins within 30 days of the issue date of the statement.


So yes, you are obligated to check your statements.
Do you not have anything else to do rather than argue with strangers on the internet
Nope. That's why I'm on the internet arguing with strangers. If I had anything better to do I'd probably be doing it.
Deal Expert
Aug 22, 2006
28883 posts
14418 upvotes
ReadAllTheDeals wrote: @death_hawk just RIP'ed OP and the thread lol
I unlike OP like reading contracts.
It ensures that I know exactly what I'm getting for my money.

For example, when I bought my used car, I bought depreciation insurance. The sales person basically said that if I write off my car, they give me the full value of what I paid.
What they didn't mention is that I HAD to spend it at the same manufacturer. So while not wrong, it was slightly misleading. I say slightly because most people are brand loyal. For those who are, this wouldn't be. They aren't changing manufacturers anyways.

If I pulled an OP, I'd be SOL and paying $1500 for insurance that I couldn't use if I wrote off my car in the future.
But since I read my contract and knew what it was providing, I knew exactly what they'd be paying me and under what conditions.
Since it no longer met my needs, I cancelled it within the terms of the same contract and got a full refund as expected.
If I stomped around 3 years later and acted like a toddler I wouldn't have gotten a dime, just like OP isn't.
Do you not have anything else to do rather than argue with strangers on the internet
Nope. That's why I'm on the internet arguing with strangers. If I had anything better to do I'd probably be doing it.
Deal Addict
User avatar
Apr 1, 2015
1637 posts
929 upvotes
NOYFB
I know some sale people who were kind enough to explain in details what would be in included in my purchase. I feel more 'secure' dealing with them but even if they don't I find it hard to blame them. business is business.

Your op reads fine and I do feel sorry for you especially at these hard times but your later defence doesn't stand that much, like other have told you.

I've heard too many bad things about the brick btw
plz don't touch my signature.

don't make me less of a human just cause i don't share your "idiotologies".

👮‍♂️👮‍♀️lives matter
Deal Addict
User avatar
Jan 3, 2014
3117 posts
2740 upvotes
Vancouver(ish)
Tsam44 wrote: No the customer should not have to check, bussinesses need to make sure that they don't miss sell.
Dude. Put on your big boy pants.

You signed a contract, and I would be very surprised if they did not provide you with a detailed breakdown of everything that was being purchased. If of course that protection plan was not on the list of items included, then go nuts...claim back every penny.

You had an opportunity to read the contract before you signed it and time to review the purchased items. Before you accepted them.

You had an opportunity to read these in the days after the purchase.

You apparently didn't bother to review what you were paying for for more than three years.

Time to accept responsibility for your own inaction here.
Proud RFD member since January 31, 2007. Feel free to add 3,034 to my post count.
Deal Addict
Feb 22, 2016
4745 posts
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Surprised the "why are you all defending corporations" people haven't all come out of the woodwork in this thread like they usually do. Probably because they know they're on the losing side this time for sure.

If you sign a contract you are deemed to have read and understood its terms, and having read and understood the terms, AGREE TO ABIDE BY THEM. You sign without reading and understanding, that's all on you, too bad so sad.

Nobody is forced to buy anything. If you were, then you can talk about fraud. OP was offered a product, and signed off on buying it. That's it. He's bought it, and now he's bound by the terms of the contract on how to return/cancel that purchase (if that's allowed at all). Dispute/chargeback with the card issuer will not work here.

Good work by @death_hawk pointing out the terms and conditions (cardholder agreement) of almost every credit card out there. I used to work customer service for a card issuer. Activating the card is considered equivalent to signing the cardholder agreement and of course, agreeing to all its terms. (some wiseguys thought if they didn't sign the back of the card, the agreement didn't apply to them so they shouldn't be charged interest/past due fees/overlimit fees/annual fees. Nope.... you activated and used the card, you're under our rules.... Loved knocking them off their high horses with that one!).

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