Buyer HOWTO Guide: Get >2.0% Commission Rebate

Here are some pitfalls to your argument:

1) This will not work for many listings. If the seller agent shows you a house, and then you make an offer with a different agent, the agent you're making an offer with is not eligible for the full Buyer's agent commission. (this is written into the Realtor comments for many listings, and the Seller agrees to this).
2) The seller's Realtor is working on behalf of the seller. Sure, the seller's Realtor will write an offer up for you, but they're not representing your interests... they're working to achieve the best deal for their Seller. You may effectively lose 1%, 2%, or 10% by not having a skilled negotiator Realtor working on your behalf. Do you know the in's and out's of every condition that you should or should not have in the offer? Are you an expert in the subtleties of the wording?

Tailwind72 wrote: ↑ Here are some pitfalls to your argument:

1) This will not work for many listings. If the seller agent shows you a house, and then you make an offer with a different agent, the agent you're making an offer with is not eligible for the full Buyer's agent commission. (this is written into the Realtor comments for many listings, and the Seller agrees to this).

This was not a problem w/ me. Show me this clause, also seller agent needs to have proof that you visited house w/ them. If you don't sign anything, seller agent has no proof. No seller agent has asked me to sign anything.

Tailwind72 wrote: ↑ 2) The seller's Realtor is working on behalf of the seller. Sure, the seller's Realtor will write an offer up for you, but they're not representing your interests... they're working to achieve the best deal for their Seller. You may effectively lose 1%, 2%, or 10% by not having a skilled negotiator Realtor working on your behalf. Do you know the in's and out's of every condition that you should or should not have in the offer? Are you an expert in the subtleties of the wording?

This is about making an offer with maximum cashback (for people who don't need a realtor service or them to represent "your interest"). You would not need agent for negotiation. What negotiations are really needed? There was none in my deal, list the conditions you want: condition on financing (literally a checkbox on the PDF form), condition on inspection (literally a checkbox on the PDF form), deposit structure: literally just fill in a few blank out boxes in PDF form, 5% deposit, 3 business days), price, and profit.

This thread is about giving buyers a choice, an option, for maximum cash back. Is it for everybody? Maybe not, but this thread is not here to debate this. This thread is about how to get maximum cashback rebate.

deepzerg wrote: ↑Here is the HOWTO GUIDE to get the highest possible commission rebate. This is not a thread on debating whether agents are worth their money or not, but a HOWTO GUIDE on getting the highest possible rebate.

Here are the steps:...

There is indeed a host of dunderhead realtors out there willing to play your game. Here are the kickers..

You don't understand the listing agreement or fiduciary duty. And if you happen to find a listing agent willing to give you a cash back, then good luck to you thinking you'll come out ahead because they haven't a clue how their listing agreement is supposed to work and if they don't know that, they don't know what the heck they're doing.

You roll the dice that you're not going to be one those very buyers who ends up with a dud of a house or a host of problems, while the seller and or realtor thoroughly took advantage of you and made off like bandits.

I and my sellers love when people who think like you try that on my listings.

Tailwind72 wrote: ↑ Here are some pitfalls to your argument:

1) This will not work for many listings. If the seller agent shows you a house, and then you make an offer with a different agent, the agent you're making an offer with is not eligible for the full Buyer's agent commission. (this is written into the Realtor comments for many listings, and the Seller agrees to this).
2) The seller's Realtor is working on behalf of the seller. Sure, the seller's Realtor will write an offer up for you, but they're not representing your interests... they're working to achieve the best deal for their Seller. You may effectively lose 1%, 2%, or 10% by not having a skilled negotiator Realtor working on your behalf. Do you know the in's and out's of every condition that you should or should not have in the offer? Are you an expert in the subtleties of the wording?

I've seen some of those demands,and can tell you that like deepzerg, you need to find the dunderhead realtors to accept that arrangement.

It drives realtors and buyer away
It's anti-competition law - buyers are free to choose whomever they desire as their fiduciary
No CREA or board rule permits a listing brokerage to dictate the compensation to a co-op brokerage - it is an offer that cannot be reduced by conditions.
Hence the Confirmation of Co-Operation and Representation
In order to scoop a reduction in commission from the co-operating agent, the seller must receive either have a referral arrangement which is not likely if a buyer has no representative until after they see the property, or the co-op agent accepts same on the CofC&R
A seller no matter what they place in their listing agreement has zero control over the buyer's representative and/or buyer

Then there's the other side of the coin that everyone in here misses. It's easy...

any Realtor willing to list at whatever percent has no excuse why they won't rebate any amount in excess of that percent.

Buyer only needs to find those and the realtor has no credible excuse to want more.

another guy that thinks they have outsmart the system .

just get a realtor you trust and ask them for a rebate. trying to get the listing agent to give you a rebate is naive and ignorant. listing agent represents the sellers interest. not yours. I hope people reading this thread do not listen to your advice.

licenced wrote: ↑ You roll the dice that you're not going to be one those very buyers who ends up with a dud of a house or a host of problems, while the seller and or realtor thoroughly took advantage of you and made off like bandits.

I and my sellers love when people who think like you try that on my listings.

I don't understand why you think buying w/o a full commission agent will result in "dud of a house or a host of problems" or being taken "advantage of you and made off like bandits". There are many properties you can buy pretty much w/ high confidence on fair pricing. For example, condos, you have a wealth of data to build a model from price history (of the same building, or nearby). In fact, one might argue that you should build your own pricing models (as opposed to relying on a black-box agent) regardless, 1) it's fun, 2) its educational, 3) i find my pricing model to be more accurate than the agents I've chatted with -- you can even test your pricing model based on (future) sold prices -- it's really fun, and I encourage all buyers to build their own pricing models. I'm not convinced most agents I chatted w/ have very good pricing models at all. We are detracting here, as the purpose of this thread is the get the maximum cash back, as opposed to whether you would be better off w/ or w/o an agent.

However, I can't help myself. Tailwind72. Licensed, oasis100, here's a very basic question I ask most agents that I meet and they fail to model correctly. Perhaps you can give me a good answer. It's a very simple question:

Suppose I have House A, it's $1m freehold. Let us assume we have the exact same house, House B, only difference is that it is not freehold, and $10k maintenance per year -- what should the discount be? List all assumptions, show all steps. Followup question, what happens when interest rates are negative?

deepzerg wrote: ↑
Suppose I have House A, it's $1m freehold. Let us assume we have the exact same house, House B, only difference is that it is not freehold, and $10k maintenance per year -- what should the discount be? List all assumptions, show all steps.

I don't understand how this hypothetical is related to a realtor represention your interest.

oasis100 wrote: ↑ I don't understand how this hypothetical is related to a realtor represention your interest.

This is such a basic real estate question -- any competent realtor should be able to answer it. Do you agree? If a realtor does not even know how to build an accurate pricing model, how can they represent your interest?

deepzerg wrote: ↑ This was not a problem w/ me. Show me this clause, also seller agent needs to have proof that you visited house w/ them. If you don't sign anything, seller agent has no proof. No seller agent has asked me to sign anything.

So you'll lie about your identity. This nullifies anything you post here as being honest or honorable. I'd recommend everyone else to totally ignore you, also.

Tailwind72 wrote: ↑ So you'll lie about your identity. This nullifies anything you post here as being honest or honorable. I'd recommend everyone else to totally ignore you, also.

Man, I feel like I'm being attacked by a swarm of realtors here. Attack the posted method, don't attack me personally.

1. I never lied and never said I lied, where did you get that from?
2. I didn't agree w/ anything w/ the Seller Agent, I didn't sign anything w/ Seller Agent etc... You just ask them to meet at realtor.ca, and they will meet. Only thing they ask you to do is sign the COVID liability form.
3. You saw your fellow realtor Licensed reply right?

Also, post-COVID, you can directly visit listings via open house. You can directly interact w/ the seller agent there as well.

Tailwind72, if you believe you are a competent realtor, feel free to answer the basic theoretical real estate question above, and show the rest of the forum how great you are! You might be able to win some new business

deepzerg wrote: ↑

You're saying that you would pretend you haven't seen a house with a Seller's agent, for the purpose of switching to a different agent for Buying, in certain situations. This is hiding or masking your identity. This is a big deal in contractual law.

Tailwind72 wrote: ↑ You're saying that you would pretend you haven't seen a house with a Seller's agent, for the purpose of switching to a different agent for Buying, in certain situations. This is hiding or masking your identity. This is a big deal in contractual law.

I never agreed anything w/ seller agent, there is no contract for contract law to apply here. You are still avoiding my basic real estate question

deepzerg wrote: ↑

I couldn't care less about your basic real estate question lol

Tailwind72 wrote: ↑ I couldn't care less about your basic real estate question lol

This is the most basic real estate question, should take 1 min for a pro.

I'll take that you don't know how to answer it

deepzerg wrote: ↑ This is such a basic real estate question -- any competent realtor should be able to answer it. Do you agree? If a realtor does not even know how to build an accurate pricing model, how can they represent your interest?

tell me what you think should happen cause you clearly know more about the listing agreeement and the working with a realtor form.

oasis100 wrote: ↑ tell me what you think should happen cause you clearly know more about the listing agreeement and the working with a realtor form.

A "Full-time Realtor" can't answer it, and tries to twist the question back to me. OK, I'll bite. How about this challenge, let us have a Mod post here as a volunteer, we PM the Mod our answers, and the Mod will then post our answers back into this thread. Would you agree to this challenge?

My argument isn't about buying with a "full commission agent" it is that you are representing here that a seller agent's with a duty of loyalty to the seller is going to throw that away for some person walking off the street whom they do not know and talking them into -

a) just telling that person they don't know what the seller would accept - that speaks to the lack of ethics and loyalty by the realtor
b) negotiating a rebate from the seller's agent is one sure fire way to know that the realtor is not working for the seller, and if they're not working for the seller, they're also not working for you.

Look, the extent of fiduciary duty owed to a client by a realtor is not something that can be readily explained in a paragraph or two and having spent years in here, I can tell you it's not something that is easily understood either.

The courts are filled with cases from buyers and sellers who were of your opinion - to their detriment.

Whenever, and I don't care what business it is, someone thinks the best deal they'll have is based on the dollar, I know that person is one day going to be in for a world of hurt.

Here's what people need to consider:

If your boss came to you and told you you're only worth 50-75% of what their going rate is, do you agree and give them the same level of service?
If your boss came to you and said, I'm going to pay you X% and I get to decide if the job is done to my satisfaction. Do you care if you complete the job in 10 hours or 50?
The smaller the difference between your gross income and expenses to earn that income, the less likely you will be to prolong the time to realize the income and increase expenses.

The longer it takes to collect a wage/fee/salary, the greater the incentive to complete the job.

Time is money and the smaller the margin the lower the incentive to invest time.

I'm not going to argue with you about the ability of agents you may have come across - those do exist. I'm only going to tell you that I and my sellers would have a great deal of fun exploiting your ability

deepzerg wrote: ↑ I don't understand why you think buying w/o a full commission agent will result in "dud of a house or a host of problems" or being taken "advantage of you and made off like bandits". There are many properties you can buy pretty much w/ high confidence on fair pricing. For example, condos, you have a wealth of data to build a model from price history (of the same building, or nearby). In fact, one might argue that you should build your own pricing models (as opposed to relying on a black-box agent) regardless, 1) it's fun, 2) its educational, 3) i find my pricing model to be more accurate than the agents I've chatted with -- you can even test your pricing model based on (future) sold prices -- it's really fun, and I encourage all buyers to build their own pricing models. I'm not convinced most agents I chatted w/ have very good pricing models at all. We are detracting here, as the purpose of this thread is the get the maximum cash back, as opposed to whether you would be better off w/ or w/o an agent.

However, I can't help myself. Tailwind72. Licensed, oasis100, here's a very basic question I ask most agents that I meet and they fail to model correctly. Perhaps you can give me a good answer. It's a very simple question:

The value of the property is not based on maintenance. Silly question.

Strangely good advice, thanks OP. Disregard anything oasis has to say.

licenced wrote: ↑ The value of the property is not based on maintenance. Silly question.

That is unfortunately not the correct answer, example: if we make it more extreme, imagine if your maintenance was $100k/yr (House B) -- would that affect your property value compared to the exact same house (House A) that is freehold?

deepzerg wrote: ↑ Man, I feel like I'm being attacked by a swarm of realtors here. Attack the posted method, don't attack me personally.

Hey, you created the thread, you invited the criticism. That you don't like it isn't anyone's fault.

[*] You saw your fellow realtor Licensed reply right?
[/list]

yes, and?

Also, post-COVID, you can directly visit listings via open house. You can directly interact w/ the seller agent there as well.

post covid, pre covid, never hear of covid - it's irrelevant to your initial post and any questions subsequent. They're irrelevant, immaterial and inconsequential