Personal Finance

Canada Emergency Response Benefit - resources & how to apply

  • Last Updated:
  • Aug 14th, 2020 3:35 pm
Deal Addict
Jan 19, 2017
2657 posts
1398 upvotes
thatsnazzyiphoneguy wrote: when you mean draw, like ask to borrow 40,000, or get the 40,000 and must have "used" it?
Since it is interest free and there is no requirement to show how you use it, just take the whole $40k out, put it in your drawer or a savings acct if you don’t need to use it. Pay $30k back and keep $10k.
Sr. Member
Sep 5, 2005
598 posts
1293 upvotes
Victoria
shipwama wrote: I am a little confused about this. My layoff was effective March 25. I applied that day to EI, and did not go back in and apply for CERB. Las week I recieved $2000, which I assume is CERB. my EI status says Decision made: Employment insurance Emergency response benefit.
I was asked to fill out self reports, which I did for 2 weeks beginning on the 29th. Then this week another 1000 was direct deposited.
Again I only did a single Application for EI and did not go back to apply for CERB...
any ideas?
This is currently how things are being paid for people applying through EI. I have no idea why, but I'm in the same situation as well.

I found this on Canada.ca:
If you apply for the CERB through Service Canada, you will receive a $2000 initial payment. You will then be paid $1000 every two weeks based on the biweekly reports you submit. If you choose to only report every four weeks, you will be paid $2000 based on the reports you submit. You will be paid as of the first week of your claim.
Source: https://www.canada.ca/en/employment-soc ... virus.html under the Employment Insurance dropdown

I'll do my best to not spend the initial $2000 as I imagine they'll want it back at some point. I haven't seen anything announced about a separate $2000 grant, so I think it's just being paid incorrectly.
Deal Fanatic
Aug 21, 2007
5474 posts
438 upvotes
Markham
ROYinTO wrote: I think the opposite.
Someone that sells high ticket items from a rented retail location differs vastly from someone that only provides a service using a vehicle & tools.
If the person has been in business for a while, the CRA already has a historical record of expenses from both HST and Income Tax returns especially if they file a T2125 which tracks expenses by category.
Fudged wide swings to make one eligible for the CERB would be fairly obvious.

Remember if they are self employed they are likely filing HST returns. An employed person would not.
agreed 100%
Deal Addict
Oct 3, 2013
1089 posts
1366 upvotes
ROYinTO wrote: I think the opposite.
Someone that sells high ticket items from a rented retail location differs vastly from someone that only provides a service using a vehicle & tools.
If the person has been in business for a while, the CRA already has a historical record of expenses from both HST and Income Tax returns especially if they file a T2125 which tracks expenses by category.
Fudged wide swings to make one eligible for the CERB would be fairly obvious.

Remember if they are self employed they are likely filing HST returns. An employed person would not.
adeel wrote: agreed 100%
I get the logic of your points; however, I would be cautious to whoever asked this question.

Let's take an example. Hypothetically, say I am self-employed, and have a business that has historically had expenses of $10000 per month, and I have historically always taken in ~$9000 per month as "revenue". This nets out to -$1000. Say I have not been affected by this virus or minimally so, so I'm taking in $8500 per month instead; by your notion, this person should qualify for CERB? Or what if we scale it, and expenses were $100000/month, and revenue was $99000/month. Since they are still net -$1000, they should qualify as well? None of the social programs have worked off of net calculations; only off of gross ones (i.e. I can't argue I'm making <$1000/month for CERB since I pay for groceries & rent).

There is some thought that the CRA is going to be analyzing every claim and make exceptions on a case-by-case basis. They will only do that to make sure people don't get paid duplicate or unnecessarily. They simply won't have the time and manpower to analyze 7-8 million claims and compare them to your company's earnings/expenses of future and previous years.

I guess another thing that should factor in is - is one being paid a "salary" from the business, with revenues being kept in the buisness? Or are they just receiving monies that go straight to their personal finances?
Last edited by Phonophoresis on Apr 17th, 2020 4:36 pm, edited 3 times in total.
[OP]
Deal Addict
Sep 19, 2009
1960 posts
785 upvotes
Toronto
ml88888888 wrote: Since it is interest free and there is no requirement to show how you use it, just take the whole $40k out, put it in your drawer or a savings acct if you don’t need to use it. Pay $30k back and keep $10k.
https://ceba-cuec.ca/
Are there any restrictions on how I can use CEBA funds?
The funds from this loan shall only be used by the Borrower to pay non-deferrable operating expenses of the Borrower including, without limitation, payroll, rent, utilities, insurance, property tax and regularly scheduled debt service, and may not be used to fund any payments or expenses such as prepayment/refinancing of existing indebtedness, payments of dividends, distributions and increases in management compensation.
Deal Addict
Dec 12, 2009
4212 posts
1939 upvotes
Toronto
Phonophoresis wrote: There is some thought that the CRA is going to be analyzing every claim and make exceptions on a case-by-case basis. They will only do that to make sure people don't get paid duplicate or unnecessarily. They simply won't have the time and manpower to analyze 7-8 million claims and compare them to your company's earnings/expenses of future and previous years.

I guess another thing that should factor in is - is one being paid a "salary" from the business, with revenues being kept in the buisness? Or are they just receiving monies that go straight to their personal finances?
You gave the example of business losses. If that was the situation they would already be on CRA's radar.

Have you ever done a business or self employment return? They have all kinds of data on you and everybody else using the same NOC for businesses and occupations. Industry trends & variations become obvious. Every line on a T2125 matches GAAP codes for expenses. In theory everybody is reporting to the same standards which makes it easy for the government to monitor trends. For example, one of my peers that has a profitable business does a lot of their required con ed in different countries, on cruise & learn etc. They are always getting flagged for audits because their claimed expenses are much higher than the industry norm. If you get flagged for one thing and audited, they usually look at everything. I've been audited. They come ask which software you are using, ask for a data dump in a certain format, the proceed to ask questions based on what they see. No more going through books & receipts line by line. They may ask for a few receipts to verify a claim but that is it.

I've been on advisory committees to the Feds. When you need data that is not readily available, they bring in the data analyst who might ask a few questions since they understand the database they are working with and viola by next meeting you have what you asked for. That is what computers are good at. Remember, this is all computerized.

If the person is on salary from a business, they are like any other employee. A ROE needs to be issued so they fall under the EI stream. Extra revenues that are retained are taxed as under the normal business stream. That is a moot point. We are talking $2G a month for a very limited potential population sector that might be trying to scam the system.

I've got an Amerifriend that did audits for the IRS, they are skilled at what they do and have some pretty ingenious ways of finding things out. E.g. On one audit, the business owners wife was on a substantial salary. While doing an audit he observed that all she did was sit at a computer screen occasionally touching up her nails. No phone calls on the business line, no inter office communication with the other workers etc. So he got up towards the end of the day and asked her where the men's washroom was. She didn't know. He caught her, her salary was not for work & therefore not an allowable expense.
Social Distancing means staying apart 2 meters or 6 feet, the depth of a grave.
Get closer and you might have one foot in the grave. (Pass it on)
Newbie
Apr 16, 2020
2 posts
2 upvotes
This 14 day stuff has me completely confused as I've seen it written in 4+ different ways.

1. Image

2. Image

3. Image

4. This one is after answering their questionnaire and being told to apply
Image

So what exactly does any of this mean? Because by the time you go to apply they are saying you have 'stopped' or 'will stop' working for 14 days, well this doesn't exactly fit my situation because I didn't stop working for 14 days to earn my less than $1000.

Seriously how hard is the English language that on THE SAME SITE, they have it written so many different ways???
Deal Addict
Oct 3, 2013
1089 posts
1366 upvotes
ROYinTO wrote: You gave the example of business losses. If that was the situation they would already be on CRA's radar.

Have you ever done a business or self employment return? They have all kinds of data on you and everybody else using the same NOC for businesses and occupations. Industry trends & variations become obvious.

I've been on advisory committees to the Feds. When you need data that is not readily available, they bring in the data analyst who might ask a few questions since they understand the database they are working with and viola by next meeting you have what you asked for. That is what computers are good at. Remember, this is all computerized.

If the person is on salary from a business, they are like any other employee. A ROE needs to be issued so they fall under the EI stream. Extra revenues that are retained are taxed as under the normal business stream. That is a moot point. We are talking $2G a month for a very limited potential population sector that might be trying to scam the system.
Alright, fair enough. You do sound more educated with respect to the business side of things than I do. We will find out at some point. That said, CERB has been designed to be very black and white so far. While I hope they do open things up to special circumstances and cases, things seem pretty clear cut for now.

I think I am thinking more along the lines of cases within my social network. Say an RMT who bills out $2500 of treatment to clients during this time. I do not feel they meet the definition of CERB just because they have to also pay $1500 in rent for the month of April. To me, they would have to keep their service revenue to <$1000 to qualify. Just my opinion, but again, I can certainly see where there is ambiguity with respect to "net" vs. "gross".
Last edited by Phonophoresis on Apr 17th, 2020 5:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Deal Addict
Dec 12, 2009
4212 posts
1939 upvotes
Toronto
skINbc wrote:
So what exactly does any of this mean? Because by the time you go to apply they are saying you have 'stopped' or 'will stop' working for 14 days, well this doesn't exactly fit my situation because I didn't stop working for 14 days to earn my less than $1000.
The will stop working is for people that are affected by emergency orders. If you know you won't be working because of an order, you don't need to wait until the time is up to apply.
It also applies to people that are put into a 14 day isolation.
Social Distancing means staying apart 2 meters or 6 feet, the depth of a grave.
Get closer and you might have one foot in the grave. (Pass it on)
Deal Addict
Dec 12, 2009
4212 posts
1939 upvotes
Toronto
Phonophoresis wrote: Alright, fair enough.
I think we are on the same page now.
FYI, I was editing and adding to my post while you were posting. I was trying to clarify concepts with examples.
There will be scammers, they will catch some but not all.
Social Distancing means staying apart 2 meters or 6 feet, the depth of a grave.
Get closer and you might have one foot in the grave. (Pass it on)
Newbie
Apr 16, 2020
2 posts
2 upvotes
ROYinTO wrote: The will stop working is for people that are affected by emergency orders. If you know you won't be working because of an order, you don't need to wait until the time is up to apply.
It also applies to people that are put into a 14 day isolation.
This is the issue, as I won't be stopping work for 14 consecutive days at all and still making less than 1000 - the way this is worded is that I have to not work for 2 weeks in order to qualify which clearly exempts me from benefiting at all and now have to struggle to get by. They really need to nail this down better because part-timers are still not getting the help they need while we put ourselves at risk.
Deal Addict
Dec 12, 2009
4212 posts
1939 upvotes
Toronto
Phonophoresis wrote: I think I am thinking more along the lines of cases within my social network. Say an RMT who bills out $2500 of treatment to clients during this time. I do not feel they meet the definition of CERB just because they have to also pay $1500 in rent for the month of April. To me, they would have to keep their service revenue to <$1000 to qualify. Just my opinion, but again, I can certainly see where there is ambiguity with respect to "net" vs. "gross".
Your RMT friend would likely be good. They would have a lot of hidden expenses you don't see. E.g. Accrual of Registration Fees, Professional Association Fees, mandatory professional insurance, mandatory con ed etc.
If they are like other regulated health professions in ON, an RMT is currently only able to provide essential services & likely have the ability to set lower fees. If they are on the border line, they could choose to lower the fees on a few financially disadvantaged clients to meet the thresholds. Even if insurance coverage is applicable, you will have to trust me when I say that I've never had an insurance company complain when you bill a lower fee for a client.
Last edited by ROYinTO on Apr 17th, 2020 5:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Social Distancing means staying apart 2 meters or 6 feet, the depth of a grave.
Get closer and you might have one foot in the grave. (Pass it on)
[OP]
Deal Addict
Sep 19, 2009
1960 posts
785 upvotes
Toronto
Phonophoresis wrote: There is some thought that the CRA is going to be analyzing every claim and make exceptions on a case-by-case basis. They will only do that to make sure people don't get paid duplicate or unnecessarily. They simply won't have the time and manpower to analyze 7-8 million claims and compare them to your company's earnings/expenses of future and previous years.
A DBA with proper access on CRA systems need less than half an hour to generate a duplicate payments report. There is a bit of work though to post the negative balance in each account and to notify all those people.

In today speech, JT actually got a question on this topic from one of the journalists and his answer was in line with what you are saying. The speeches are posted here but the one for today is not available yet.
Newbie
Apr 16, 2020
7 posts
I am on Ei received 2000 and 1000 from EI but did the reports tomorrow I have a report to do and one of my employers sent me 750 from leui overtime banked hours and 50 dollars of vacation. I can't speak to them on the phone bc if I'm on cerb I will not receive more payments etc. So tomorrow I have to tell them my earnings even if I didnt work in my old job since jan 10?
Newbie
Apr 16, 2020
2 posts
Hello i have one question related CERB and EI
As i recieved both payments and i know its by mistake so i put $2000 on side to pay back whenever they ask or i get any news how to do it, but when i tried to apply for second cerb payment they said i cant do with cra as i[/b] get EI from Service Canada and service canada said i am not eligible for EI I should call to CRA so i want to know wht should I do in this situation how to get second payment and how to apply do anyone have this answer for me pls[/b]

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