Locked: Canada set to begin collecting data on travellers leaving country

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Mar 25th, 2019 2:48 pm

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Mar 19th, 2019 7:37 pm

Guest4727381 [OP]: Banned; Jan 12, 2015; 4107 posts; 27311 upvotes

Mar 19th, 2019 7:37 pm

Canada set to begin collecting data on travellers leaving country

Ottawa will soon start collecting data on every person leaving Canada by land and air in a bid to identify and track anyone from potential terrorists to snowbirds who lie about their residency to claim government benefits.

The new measures, expected to take effect later this year, aim to strengthen border security, enforce residency requirements for permanent residents and pinpoint those who fail to leave the country as required.

The estimated savings for the government in employment insurance and old age security over 10 years could add up to $206 million, plus another $151 million in family and child tax credits and other benefits, according to an analysis of the proposed changes to the Customs Act published Saturday.

https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/201 ... untry.html

57 replies

Mar 19th, 2019 7:56 pm

speedyforme: Deal Guru; Dec 11, 2008; 11762 posts; 2601 upvotes

Mar 19th, 2019 7:56 pm

Good

Mar 19th, 2019 8:17 pm

IceBlueShoes: Deal Addict; Dec 18, 2007; 4731 posts; 644 upvotes

Mar 19th, 2019 8:17 pm

speedyforme wrote: ↑Good

I agree.
This is way overdue.

Mar 19th, 2019 9:31 pm

MonctonMan: Deal Addict; Oct 25, 2009; 4329 posts; 1343 upvotes; Moncton

Mar 19th, 2019 9:31 pm

https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/201 ... untry.html

The whole scheme is expected to cost about $110 million, with almost $80 million assumed by the federal government and the rest by the commercial air industry.

So a 30 million dollar tax on air travellers with 0 benefit to them.

Toronto is a very small part of Canada

Mar 20th, 2019 9:18 am

Pete_Coach: Deal Expert; May 10, 2005; 36510 posts; 10847 upvotes; Ottawa

Mar 20th, 2019 9:18 am

Not sure this hasn't been done all along. My passports have been scanned every time I have left the country, by air or by driving to the US (or Nexus scan).
There has been a record of my departure (and arrival) every time.

Mar 20th, 2019 9:40 am

heymikey: Deal Addict; Oct 2, 2006; 3615 posts; 517 upvotes

Mar 20th, 2019 9:40 am

I think if you fly to the US, you usually go through US customs at Canadian airports. If you fly to outside the US, then you go straight to security without seeing a border official. Unless airlines share their passenger data to the government, there's really no way for them to capture who leaves the country. I don't get why airlines couldn't just share the data to the government.

Mar 20th, 2019 10:17 am

Talamasca: Deal Guru; Apr 26, 2004; 12779 posts; 3227 upvotes; Mississauga

Mar 20th, 2019 10:17 am

I guess I've seen too many movies, but I always figured countries already shared traveller data with each other. Like if I land in France, they scan my passport upon arrival and that data makes it back to Canada in some database.

Mar 20th, 2019 10:26 am

lazybummer: Member; Nov 30, 2015; 445 posts; 236 upvotes; GTA, ON

Mar 20th, 2019 10:26 am

heymikey wrote: ↑ I don't get why airlines couldn't just share the data to the government.

Data is like gold and the airlines got the data already so if the Govt wants it they have to pay. And therefore we will end up paying for our own data that the airlines have on us going and coming like a tax/surcharge/fee one way or another. Of course the airlines will say they have to spend millions getting and packaging the data to hand over.

I am skeptical that it could cost $100 million or so given the history of systems the Govt puts in. Will likely be a lot more.

Mar 20th, 2019 3:54 pm

amkorp: Deal Addict; Sep 29, 2008; 1362 posts; 1479 upvotes; Toronto - Markham/Sc…

Mar 20th, 2019 3:54 pm

lazybummer wrote: ↑ Data is like gold and the airlines got the data already so if the Govt wants it they have to pay. And therefore we will end up paying for our own data that the airlines have on us going and coming like a tax/surcharge/fee one way or another. Of course the airlines will say they have to spend millions getting and packaging the data to hand over.

I am skeptical that it could cost $100 million or so given the history of systems the Govt puts in. Will likely be a lot more.

This makes zero sense.

If the government of Canada implements new laws requiring airlines to provide traveller information to the government in order to conduct business in the country, how will the government have to pay for it.

This isn't the government asking nicely for info, they are telling whoever they are getting the data from that they need to provide it or they can't do business in the country.

Sure there will be a costs to implement the data sharing infrastructure, however there is not "payment" that the government is making to airlines to get this info. That's just silly.

Mar 20th, 2019 4:02 pm

McKinsey: Deal Addict; Oct 18, 2014; 2010 posts; 887 upvotes; HK

Mar 20th, 2019 4:02 pm

Pete_Coach wrote: ↑ Not sure this hasn't been done all along. My passports have been scanned every time I have left the country, by air or by driving to the US (or Nexus scan).
There has been a record of my departure (and arrival) every time.

Traveling to the US, they have access to the data.

Traveling to other countries, while the airlines ticket counter or gate agents scan your passport (for the purpose of verification), I don't believe that data is being sent back to the Feds.

This will take care of the many cases where Canadians are living abroad, while collecting benefits while not paying taxes and/or residing in Canada.

Mar 20th, 2019 4:35 pm

Pete_Coach: Deal Expert; May 10, 2005; 36510 posts; 10847 upvotes; Ottawa

Mar 20th, 2019 4:35 pm

McKinsey wrote: ↑ Traveling to the US, they have access to the data.

Traveling to other countries, while the airlines ticket counter or gate agents scan your passport (for the purpose of verification), I don't believe that data is being sent back to the Feds.

This will take care of the many cases where Canadians are living abroad, while collecting benefits while not paying taxes and/or residing in Canada.

You may be right but, I am not sure of that,.
The information is likely required by the destination country (UK or Schengen or other) prior to your landing there. I think that while in flight, data is sent to the arriving countries. I believe that is why you cannot get on an aircraft in Europe to come to Canada without a passport.

Mar 20th, 2019 5:46 pm

StatsGuy: Deal Fanatic; Dec 20, 2018; 8012 posts; 7308 upvotes

Mar 20th, 2019 5:46 pm

Pete_Coach wrote: ↑ Not sure this hasn't been done all along. My passports have been scanned every time I have left the country, by air or by driving to the US (or Nexus scan).
There has been a record of my departure (and arrival) every time.

Govt doesn't scan your passport when you leave the country as there's no exit control for cdn immigration

Airlines do to satisfy destination country, but they're not allowed to share with cdn govt

Mar 20th, 2019 5:47 pm

StatsGuy: Deal Fanatic; Dec 20, 2018; 8012 posts; 7308 upvotes

Mar 20th, 2019 5:47 pm

McKinsey wrote: ↑ Traveling to the US, they have access to the data.

Traveling to other countries, while the airlines ticket counter or gate agents scan your passport (for the purpose of verification), I don't believe that data is being sent back to the Feds.

This will take care of the many cases where Canadians are living abroad, while collecting benefits while not paying taxes and/or residing in Canada.

Lots of snowbirds will be caught by this but this needs to be spread to land crossings where lots of snowbirds cross

Mar 20th, 2019 5:52 pm

Pete_Coach: Deal Expert; May 10, 2005; 36510 posts; 10847 upvotes; Ottawa

Mar 20th, 2019 5:52 pm

StatsGuy wrote: ↑ Govt doesn't scan your passport when you leave the country as there's no exit control for cdn immigration

Airlines do to satisfy destination country, but they're not allowed to share with cdn govt

Didn't say they did although when crossing a land border the CBP do and I think, or I have read, that US and Canada border folks share data.
As for airlines not allowed to share with Canadian government I don't know about that.

Mar 21st, 2019 10:53 am

dealguy2: Deal Addict; Jan 11, 2004; 4979 posts; 575 upvotes; Victoria

Mar 21st, 2019 10:53 am

Bet you anything the cost of the enforcement will exceed anything collected.

Not a political sig

Mar 21st, 2019 9:26 pm

EastGTARedFlagger: Deal Addict; Feb 22, 2016; 4745 posts; 4396 upvotes

Mar 21st, 2019 9:26 pm

WRT to the Canada/USA border, it's part of the WHTI that the countries share information.

One change I noticed is, when you come back to Canada from the US and tell the CBA agent when you left/how long you were away, they NEVER ask for proof anymore. (like hotel statements, or receipts from purchases from each day you were gone). They already have the answer on their monitor after scanning your passport or keying in your licence plate. You can't go away for 1 night or less on a shopping trip and claim you were gone for 48 hours (in order to use the $800 exemption).

Mar 21st, 2019 10:44 pm

IceBlueShoes: Deal Addict; Dec 18, 2007; 4731 posts; 644 upvotes

Mar 21st, 2019 10:44 pm

StatsGuy wrote: ↑ Govt doesn't scan your passport when you leave the country as there's no exit control for cdn immigration

Airlines do to satisfy destination country, but they're not allowed to share with cdn govt

I'd say it was more that it wasn't required than allowed.

Govts. are tracking our movements due to terrorism and being big brother.
You can be sure that if there was a terrorism threat with an ally, they'd share the data with Canadian authorities or vice versa.

Mar 21st, 2019 10:52 pm

takeoffyourbackpack: Banned; Mar 14, 2019; 17 posts; 26 upvotes

Mar 21st, 2019 10:52 pm

amkorp wrote: ↑ This makes zero sense.

If the government of Canada implements new laws requiring airlines to provide traveller information to the government in order to conduct business in the country, how will the government have to pay for it.

This isn't the government asking nicely for info, they are telling whoever they are getting the data from that they need to provide it or they can't do business in the country.

Sure there will be a costs to implement the data sharing infrastructure, however there is not "payment" that the government is making to airlines to get this info. That's just silly.

good point.
when US government petitioned Canada government to get Canadian banks to report FATCA rules, the government, nor did the US governemnt, pay the Canadian banks for this information.

cost of doing business.

however, implementing the system, paying the workers, etc, does get passed on to consumers. e.g. more fees.

Mar 21st, 2019 11:27 pm

OrangeBerry: Deal Addict; Aug 9, 2013; 4344 posts; 1869 upvotes; Scarborough

Mar 21st, 2019 11:27 pm

So if my parents immigrated to Canada 40 years ago, worked and paid their taxes and decide to retire back where they were born are they not allowed to sustain their Canadian Benefits if they decide to come and visit every year or two?

The Refugees that came in last year are getting shelter, benefits and government assistance and they've been here less than a year but the folks who worked all their lives decide to leave Canada and lose out on everything?

Mar 21st, 2019 11:41 pm

burnt69: Deal Addict; Oct 6, 2015; 2463 posts; 1398 upvotes

Mar 21st, 2019 11:41 pm

The whole "no EI while out of the country" thing is stupid and was more reminiscent of a time without cell phones, Internet, or the online job application process that most employers force the use of. And some people may even be leaving Canada to look for jobs -- so for EI to cut them off while they're trying to do that is completely and utterly counterproductive if not insulting and demeaning.

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