Real Estate

CANCELLED--Television City Hamilton Condos

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  • Mar 8th, 2022 11:22 pm
[OP]
Newbie
Jul 16, 2013
20 posts
8 upvotes

CANCELLED--Television City Hamilton Condos

Edit - this condo appears to be cancelled...I got my deposit back with no communication from the builder. Only a cheque from the trust company that said they would not make the critical dates. Is there anyone else in the same boat or know what can be done here?

I was wondering what people's opinions were on this:

http://televisioncity.ca/

This is a 2nd tower from the supposedly highly successful tower 1 for television city from late mid to late 2017. It is expected to finish in the summer of 2022.

I was at a platinum event a few weeks ago where they offered assignment, right to lease during occupancy, and capped levies and tarion at 5000.

The developer Brad Lamb was there along with the platinum broker Andrew Le Fleur who has his own podcast, and they were touting Hamilton as a much better area to invest in than Toronto for various reasons:
1. Half the price (downtown vs downtown) but at 70% of the rents, selling at about 588/sq foot right now
2. Growing art and food hipster culture in the downtown
3. Supposedly many big names are bidding on building opportunities right now in Hamilton and over 1 billion will be spent there in the next few years in development.. Tridel, Daniels... etc
4. Similar cap appreciation as Toronto with a lower entry price
5. Significantly lower closing costs
6. Growing health tech services and other tech jobs, not just a steel city anymore

I decided that I would take the plunge on this and picked up a Channel 04 (1 bedroom) on a very high floor, but right now am in the cooldown period and wanted some opinions as I had a few questions for those who want to give their honest feedback. My intention for this property is to either assign it or actually close and tenant it out

1. This is a 4 year preconstruction development, is this actually a risky investment? If the housing market falls into the abyss in the next 2 years is there any way I can choose not to close?
2. One of the incentives was an assignment clause that requires 90% of the building to be sold prior to activation, don't builders usually hold off on a % of units until way later in order to sell them at a higher cost? Based on your experiences assuming reasonable demand for units would it be a likely possiblity that 10% of units be held onto until the last year?
3. There has been media about Hamilton not really liking what this will do to thier skyline and various other battles it appears Brad is fighting with, by signing so early am I taking on unreasonable risk? I suppose Toronto early preconstruction deals with similar issues
4. My particular unit is high up, but it faces directly into tower 1, is there any point to having paid the floor premium with my current goals in mind? Does it actually affect sale price? I was told that because it was only $500 a floor it made sense to go up higher since I can still have a good view from the north and south sides of the terrace.

There are probably more questions that I havent thought of but it is getting late!

Thanks
Last edited by copasetic1 on Aug 25th, 2020 9:41 pm, edited 2 times in total.
37 replies
Sr. Member
Feb 21, 2010
886 posts
261 upvotes
Scarborough
My assumption is that this is an investment property and you would like to rent from day 1. Not sure how good the rental market for condos in Hamilton will be. It is at least an hour commute to downtown Toronto and assuming tenant will get a break on rent, he will spend the savings on commute and probably a car expense. So no net saving to tenant and then he has to spend 2 hours commuting.

I have no idea about renting to a local tenant - is Hamilton going to generate so many new jobs that workers would prefer to rent and live in Hamilton? Wouldn’t they want to buy in Hamilton if prices are half of Toronto
Member
Dec 9, 2007
338 posts
74 upvotes
I'm kind of in the same boat at the OP (looking for a rental property in Hamilton) except I'm looking for a unit in a building that already up and running.

I think a good comparable for the television City condos would be the building at 150 main west. It would give a good indication how easy (or not) to rent out a unit in downtown Hamilton.

You might want to check out the lengthy discussion about the television City condo at

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthr ... 50&page=23

I was under the impression that city council was putting up roadblocks for this project. Was this resolved?
Newbie
May 4, 2016
92 posts
41 upvotes
i was at the event as well and reasons by Andrew, Alex Wilson and Brad lamb were all plausible....If i had excess cash i would go for a small 1 bed to dip my feet in the hamilton market..Here my issue with this project:

1) This project is heavily marketed to Toronto investors who are comparing Toronto to Hamilton and basing their decision on that. There is other sub regions like Oakville, Vaughan, Mississauga and even Brampton(Symphony condo) where heavy comparison should be rather made with Hamilton instead to see if there are better options in the GTA.

2) To go hamilton make sure you have a loooong time horizon.
Deal Fanatic
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Oct 9, 2008
5684 posts
2249 upvotes
Thornhill
I use Hamilton as a barometer of 'greed' and frothiness in the real-estate market and to help shape my real estate investment decisions. I do not have the price list for this development but there are a few fallacies about the direct comparison of Toronto to Hamilton from my opinion:

1. Half the price (downtown vs downtown) but at 70% of the rents, selling at about 588/sq foot right now
If you're comparing dollars to dollar, what about the rest of the picture, how many jobs are there in Hamilton and how many more jobs will there be in Hamilton compared to Toronto? By the assumption that rents will continue to outperform then the assumption of better and more more jobs coming to Hamilton vs Toronto must also be made.

2. Growing art and food hipster culture in the downtown
True. How many jobs/GDP comes from this?

3. Supposedly many big names are bidding on building opportunities right now in Hamilton and over 1 billion will be spent there in the next few years in development.. Tridel, Daniels... etc
I do not know.

4. Similar cap appreciation as Toronto with a lower entry price
????

5. Significantly lower closing costs
No Toronto land transfer tax but I'm unsure of this developments' closing costs. Keep in mind Hamilton's property tax is higher than Toronto and will only go higher while Toronto's will always stay stable due to it being the largest city.

6. Growing health tech services and other tech jobs, not just a steel city anymore
Yes.

Forget his song and dance, look at the community of Durand right now and research comps for detached homes. Does it look good to you for ROI? For Hamilton to grow and reach their potential that the city wants, Toronto needs to become even bigger and more unaffordable thus people will need to settle for a city that's connected via Go Line with similar amenities. Toronto has become more affordable since the 2017 euphoria, investors/people don't have to settle for Hamilton as much anymore.
[OP]
Newbie
Jul 16, 2013
20 posts
8 upvotes
I believe that this is what was referred to as a reason as to why the city will see a large amount of development, also where it lists Tridel and other big names
https://www.hamilton.ca/city-initiative ... evelopment

So just an update, it isnt going to be a 40 and 30 floor tower, it is 30 for both (probably because they couldnt get approval for the 40)

the investment requirement of about 45k during the 1st year with a timeline of at least 4 years is right in my wheel house right now and i think it is more attractive than investing in an ETF

I am sort of afraid however that the locals will be able to stop this development based on that forum above.. seems like investing now before that knowledge is official is sort of risky.. do you guys think that if the city said no Brad would have to return our money right away?
Member
Mar 6, 2017
418 posts
300 upvotes
Earlier this year there was a project in richmond hill (yonge hwy 7) called ERA condos and I got a price list and it was around 700 per sq foot. I'd feel more comfortable with that any day over something in hamilton even at 600 per sq foot

just take a look at what it'd cost to buy a house around yonge and hwy 7 vs hamilton and I don't see how someone could pick hamilton over richmond hill. If the subway extension goes through then it's just gravy on top
Deal Expert
Feb 29, 2008
17414 posts
14831 upvotes
Tarrana & The Ri…
Bought from this builder in the past. Won't do it again. Do your research.

Might be decent for an investment, though. But if you plan on living in it, buyer beware!
Deal Addict
Dec 4, 2016
1977 posts
1000 upvotes
The population of Hamilton CMA is less than 1 million, smaller than Ottawa. I'm not sure if it's ready for condos yet. At its current size, freehold towns are probably the logical units to build.
Deal Fanatic
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Oct 9, 2008
5684 posts
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Thornhill
copasetic1 wrote: I believe that this is what was referred to as a reason as to why the city will see a large amount of development, also where it lists Tridel and other big names
https://www.hamilton.ca/city-initiative ... evelopment

So just an update, it isnt going to be a 40 and 30 floor tower, it is 30 for both (probably because they couldnt get approval for the 40)

the investment requirement of about 45k during the 1st year with a timeline of at least 4 years is right in my wheel house right now and i think it is more attractive than investing in an ETF

I am sort of afraid however that the locals will be able to stop this development based on that forum above.. seems like investing now before that knowledge is official is sort of risky.. do you guys think that if the city said no Brad would have to return our money right away?
If you really wanted to target Pier8 development why don't you just wait for a pricelist from one of the developers on the actual winners of the RFP? The Television City development is in Durand... That's not walking distance at all to Pier8 really.

Locals in any jurisdiction have very little power in terms of huge development plans such as Hamilton's. I know this city well enough to tell you that gentrification is going to have an ugly affect on some areas depending on what sort of public/low income housing the city develops in the future. The private sector via duplex/triplex's are currently absorbing these types of tenants currently, when the next real estate boom comes in, these houses will be sold to flippers and the Hamilton city will have to adjust to absorb the displaced tenants.

Have you seen the community of Durand? Walk around in the daytime and at nighttime and get a feel for the downtown before you commit too much to the developer's narrative.

Best of luck!
Deal Addict
Nov 16, 2011
1436 posts
1121 upvotes
HAMILTON
Brad Lamb has appealed to the OMB , appealed early to get the old OMB. Appealed even before any decisions made or recommendations considered by council.

Neighbors are up in arms re heights so will be part of the process.

OMB hearings for appeals filed prior to April this year are way behind and this project may not see a hearing till late 2019 or early 2020.

There has been some discussion regarding the validity to his appeal since was filed before any decisions made.

Hamilton is growing more sophisticated with mass transit coming in. Better Go service.

Many Torontoites moving to Hamilton/Ancaster re cheaper property and better commuting, work at home opportunities.
Deal Addict
Jan 15, 2010
1459 posts
1764 upvotes
Toronto
Why is Hamilton making the same mistakes as Toronto and building giant towers as their first foray into multi unit condo housing? Land there is still relatively cheap, they should be building mid-rise.

At 600 PSF Lamb is going to make a killing on this.
[OP]
Newbie
Jul 16, 2013
20 posts
8 upvotes
luckystrike1 wrote: Brad Lamb has appealed to the OMB , appealed early to get the old OMB. Appealed even before any decisions made or recommendations considered by council.

Neighbors are up in arms re heights so will be part of the process.

OMB hearings for appeals filed prior to April this year are way behind and this project may not see a hearing till late 2019 or early 2020.

There has been some discussion regarding the validity to his appeal since was filed before any decisions made.

Hamilton is growing more sophisticated with mass transit coming in. Better Go service.

Many Torontoites moving to Hamilton/Ancaster re cheaper property and better commuting, work at home opportunities.
What does this mean exactly? Do you mean it may not be until 2020 before we know if this will be a valid project? And your opinion is that Hamilton is a healthy grwoing economy overall
Deal Addict
User avatar
Dec 13, 2016
4096 posts
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flair.14 wrote:
I think a good comparable for the television City condos would be the building at 150 main west.
Is this a good building? Wanted to buy there but google reviews mention a lot of issues.l
Deal Expert
Feb 29, 2008
17414 posts
14831 upvotes
Tarrana & The Ri…
Jeenyus1 wrote: If you really wanted to target Pier8 development why don't you just wait for a pricelist from one of the developers on the actual winners of the RFP? The Television City development is in Durand... That's not walking distance at all to Pier8 really.

Locals in any jurisdiction have very little power in terms of huge development plans such as Hamilton's. I know this city well enough to tell you that gentrification is going to have an ugly affect on some areas depending on what sort of public/low income housing the city develops in the future. The private sector via duplex/triplex's are currently absorbing these types of tenants currently, when the next real estate boom comes in, these houses will be sold to flippers and the Hamilton city will have to adjust to absorb the displaced tenants.

Have you seen the community of Durand? Walk around in the daytime and at nighttime and get a feel for the downtown before you commit too much to the developer's narrative.

Best of luck!
I'd say Hamilton will never be the same again. Haven't been in years but I know of several people that have either moved there or bought real estate. Toronto is too expensive and so are surrounding areas. That actually helps Hamilton. What Hamilton also has going for it is it has a lot of the old school heritage looking homes that are well over $1M in Toronto. Much cheaper now. Had a colleague 10 years ago buy a beautiful house in Hamilton around $200K and I'm sure she is feeling pretty good about the decision. Hamilton is a big enough city for people to consider moving there and setting up shop. Not a bad investment. But I'm wondering what their rental market is like. Is it healthy or do most buy because prices are still reasonable?
Deal Addict
Nov 16, 2011
1436 posts
1121 upvotes
HAMILTON
According to news reports, appeals under the old OMB system are backed up the wazzoo. Appeals are already scheduled into 2019 so who knows when they will be heard and decision rendered.
And/or what changes are ordered.

There was also some legal dispute as to whether a builder can file an appeal in anticipation of a contrary council decision.

Would appear that council is not opposed overall to the project but needs some major changes due to height, sizing, fit with neighborhood, density.

Residents have issues with compatibility, crowding and especially the shade factor. Building(s) are scheduled to be taller than the actual Hamilton Mtn. which is creating issues with visual distraction and mountain residents.

Hamilton is getting there with liveability. There is lots of construction going on. New LRT going to be built. Go stations available.

Property taxes in Hamilton are much higher than other areas but that can be made up with affordability.

Close to the border for cross border shopping and flights. Good Go Transit to Toronto for entertainment. Close to the Niagara Peninsula for entertainment , wine making etc. Summer festivals, RBG, harbor trails.

It is an ok place to live and while I don't live there any longer ( now live rural ) I have many friends that do and are happy living there.
[OP]
Newbie
Jul 16, 2013
20 posts
8 upvotes
JayLove06 wrote: Bought from this builder in the past. Won't do it again. Do your research.

Might be decent for an investment, though. But if you plan on living in it, buyer beware!
Care to expand a bit on your negative perspective of this buyer? From what I can see Brad lamb has a decent track record minus his recent condos in Alberta which suffered badly from th declining oil prices.
Deal Expert
Feb 29, 2008
17414 posts
14831 upvotes
Tarrana & The Ri…
copasetic1 wrote: Care to expand a bit on your negative perspective of this buyer? From what I can see Brad lamb has a decent track record minus his recent condos in Alberta which suffered badly from th declining oil prices.
Customer service is bad. You will see a huge difference between dealing with tridel, Daniels, great gulf even smaller builders. The condos are designed for investors more so than people who will live there. If there’s an issue with a unit they will look at it more so as “you made great money, sell the unit” instead of fixing it. Not saying hey won’t fix it but it will take a very long time. Workmanship not good. His units have a lot of exposed concrete so the concrete work isn’t great. Seems like a guy who decided to build a condo rather than an actual home builder. I have bought from him and a host of other builders. I have friends who have bought from him, nothing good to say about their experiences. I’m not going into everything but i sold my condo and am living in a much better place by a smaller builder who doesn’t act like a jerk and run from responsibility when things go wrong.

Can only compare to the other builders I have dealt with. Just my opinion.
[OP]
Newbie
Jul 16, 2013
20 posts
8 upvotes
The below article discusses some of the issues surrounding this development. Just so everyone knows, my actual contract says that both buildings are going to be 30 stories as not 40 and 30 like it says literally everywhere, and I confirmed this with Andrew the platinum broker that this is the case. I suspect that Brad was planning on letting them win the height battle the entire time but fight on being able to erect 2 separate buildings. I would be investing in the 2nd building so this is definitely a concern.

It also mentioned in my contract about making sure to leave garbage on the 1st floor which apparently was an outdated statement from an older contract as this building supposedly has garbage chutes on each floor. Would anyone be concerned about this sort of typo?

https://www.thepublicrecord.ca/2018/03/ ... ot-height/
Jr. Member
Oct 9, 2011
119 posts
31 upvotes
I've recently invested in a condo in Hamilton. I live here, if you have any questions PM me!

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