Coffee @ home - Nespresso or Keurig?

doomhammer wrote: ↑Update: Bought the citiz Nespresso machine. Love it!
You know seriously the coffee is out standing!

Congratulations on your purchase and for listening to my advice rather than those of the Keurig fanbois.

playnicee1 wrote: ↑ You're using an older model. The newer model Keurig is not giving me that trouble. I'm cheating though. I buy the flavoured coffees.

That isn't "cheating", more like "lipstick on a pig".

If you can't drink a coffee black, it's not worth drinking. If you found a freezer-burned steak hidden in the back of the freezer, marinating it in Worcestershire sauce before cooking and then covering it with Sriracha before eating won't make it edible. Same goes for coffee. Bad black coffee is bad coffee, making it a "double double" along with several tablespoons of hazelnut/chocolate/french vanilla/nutella/pumpkin spice syrups won't save it.

By design Keurig cannot properly brew coffee. The water temperature is not hot enough and the extraction time is not long enough. That's a recipe for disaster. The equivalent for tea drinkers would be briefly dunking a tea bag into a cup of hot tap water. No tea drinker who cares about the quality of his drink would ever do that (and adding sugar, syrups, milk, or silly tapioca balls won't save it)... so no coffee drinker who cares about quality should ever use a Keurig, since that's the same thing.

At home and at work I mostly brew using French presses. I recently bought a Nespresso Inissia which I use when I'm in a hurry and want my espresso shot fast, and I also use a moka pot and an ibrik, which are the slowest methods I use but do make strong coffee. You'll never see a Keurig in my house.

Oh yes, this video will blow away any arguments about Nespresso being expensive... the pods themselves are refillable!



I've been saving up my initial collection of pods and once they're finished I'll be refilling them with Lavazza espresso beans (on sale at Costco this week 1 kg bag for $11). Note that you need to be using the authentic Nespresso pods (the aluminum once), not the plastic knockoffs. There's a reason Nespresso pushes their "recycling" program - they don't want you to know you can do this!

kool1 wrote: ↑ I always dark roast coffee pods - Timothy's Extra Dark right now. Delish and tons of flavor.

Don't buy anything light or "breakfast blend". These generally suck.

Funny enough, that's what I'm using right now for my keuirg

thriftshopper wrote: ↑ Probably designed and made for U.S. market taste (especially the old folk). I remember an old joke about someone from Europe being asked about the country. He replies by saying how nice it is and how friendly the people are but there are 3 things he doesn't understand. The first is baseball, the second is football, and the third is this brown water called they call coffee.

Other thing was speaking to some South Americans I used to work with. Some of them had studied in the U.S. and said that when they were in the U.S., they could pretty much drink a whole pot of coffee a day and all throughout the day (I used to too, and have/had a whole bunch of huge Aladdin 7-11 insulated coffee mugs from those days). As soon as she returned to South America, she said she could only drink 1 or maybe 2 cups of coffee and in the morning only. Keurig coffee tastes like that to me.

I started to drink moka pot coffee and after a while, even good drip coffee was too weak.

I have a mokapot too and like it but if I'm lazy I'll do a drip coffee or just do a luongo on the Nespresso

When I used to go into office more, I'll fill my tumbler with a 6 cup mokapot (~12oz?)

I'll do Keurig with dark roast Timothy if I'm too lazy to go upstairs from my basement home office and just need something late in afternoon

EastGTARedFlagger wrote: ↑
If you can't drink a coffee black, it's not worth drinking.
By design Keurig cannot properly brew coffee. The water temperature is not hot enough

You'd say it's not hot enough if it were 2000 degrees though.
Unlike you, I don't like scorching coffee, and I'm quite happy brewing coffee @ 192F.
It doesn't need to be any hotter. Some people may prefer 205F, but I don't.
I like something I can drink right away, without having to add cold water to it.
& yes, I can drink Lavazza coffee black, if I desire to.

playnicee1 wrote: ↑ You'd say it's not hot enough if it were 2000 degrees though.

I didn't know I was making coffee using molten copper...
https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/melt ... d_860.html

Read and learn first instead of trying to throw more BS at the wall:
https://www.javapresse.com/blogs/enjoyi ... rter-guide
https://www.javapresse.com/blogs/enjoyi ... ure-coffee

kool1 wrote: ↑ I always dark roast coffee pods - Timothy's Extra Dark right now. Delish and tons of flavor.
Don't buy anything light or "breakfast blend". These generally suck.

You have it wrong. Dark roasting is used to hide bad coffee, and has less caffeine per cup, not more. Why do you think Tim Horton's Dark is so popular?
Worth a read: https://www.javapresse.com/blogs/buying ... ast-coffee

If you've ever had Geisha coffee beans from Panama, you'd understand. Roasted light or medium, that is amazing stuff unlike any other coffee you've ever had, and beans sell for upwards of $50/lb. Roast it dark, you'd feel ripped off because you could have gotten the same taste for a lot less money at Tim Horton's or the coffee bean aisle at any supermarket.

I know I'm a Starbucks fan but even I will come out and say a medium roast at Starbucks (Pike Place Roast, and almost all their "Reserve" line) would be called a medium-dark anywhere else. Dark roasts at Starbucks (French Roast, Caffe Verona, etc) are nasty even to me. What they market as "blonde roast" (True North blend) is really a medium. Starbucks doesn't roast light unless it's some very exclusive bean only sold at the Roastery. Sad but true, Starbucks built their reputation and brand on dark roasting (since back in the 80's and 90's that was the thing) and they can't dial it back anymore.

I get that dark roasting is traditional for espressos. I just don't want it in my French press, moka pot, or ibrik.

thriftshopper wrote: ↑ I started to drink moka pot coffee and after a while, even good drip coffee was too weak.

I agree with you 110% on that. I use (in order of frequency) French press, Nespresso, moka pot, and ibrik in my house. So whenever I get a coffee brewed using filter methods (pourover, drip, Chemex, and even siphon!) at Starbucks or anywhere else, it tastes weak to me too. I like to have those oils in the drink for that "full bodied" flavor, not filtered out so the coffee resembles tea. I want my coffee to be opaque.

EastGTARedFlagger wrote: ↑ You have it wrong. Dark roasting is used to hide bad coffee, and has less caffeine per cup, not more. Why do you think Tim Horton's Dark is so popular?
Worth a read: https://www.javapresse.com/blogs/buying ... ast-coffee

If you've ever had Geisha coffee beans from Panama, you'd understand. Roasted light or medium, that is amazing stuff unlike any other coffee you've ever had, and beans sell for upwards of $50/lb. Roast it dark, you'd feel ripped off because you could have gotten the same taste for a lot less money at Tim Horton's or the coffee bean aisle at any supermarket.

I know I'm a Starbucks fan but even I will come out and say a medium roast at Starbucks (Pike Place Roast, and almost all their "Reserve" line) would be called a medium-dark anywhere else. Dark roasts at Starbucks (French Roast, Caffe Verona, etc) are nasty even to me. What they market as "blonde roast" (True North blend) is really a medium. Starbucks doesn't roast light unless it's some very exclusive bean only sold at the Roastery. Sad but true, Starbucks built their reputation and brand on dark roasting (since back in the 80's and 90's that was the thing) and they can't dial it back anymore.

Tim's dark is not popular at all - in fact I can't remember the last time I heard someone order or ask for one. Staff don't even ask anymore.

As for dark coffee - I disagree with your article. Dark roast does good and has a bolder taste. If you don't like it fine but I like stronger coffee and some lighter blends taste watery in the Keurig - that was the point.

Thread title reads like "Oil change: Canadian Tire A or Canadian Tire B?"

Kiraly wrote: ↑ Thread title reads like "Oil change: Canadian Tire A or Canadian Tire B?"

Nah, that would be if the thread was Keurig vs Tassimo...

If you want to use the oil change analogy, Keurig is Crappy Tire or Mr. Lube while Nespresso would be the dealership.

kool1 wrote: ↑ As for dark coffee - I disagree with your article. Dark roast does good and has a bolder taste. If you don't like it fine but I like stronger coffee and some lighter blends taste watery in the Keurig - that was the point.

I get that the Keurig needs all the help it can get... when the extraction time is too short and the temperature is too low, yeah, that Krap-cup had better be filled to the brim with very finely ground, roasted-to-charcoal coffee in order to extract flavour out of it. So I agree with you on that.

But try a single origin coffee (not necessarily a Geisha) medium roasted and brewed in a French press and you'll see/smell/taste what the coffee experts are talking about.
Some posters on this board hate Starbucks because they over-roast the beans (one poster calls them "Charbucks" and it's easy to see why if you drink Caffe Verona or French Roast).

This article might be more to your liking -- does agree with the facts from the previous article (especially the burnt taste aspect) but also covers what you think, which is that dark roast = stronger coffee (not true) and gives some health benefits of dark (so you can feel better about your choice):

https://soloespresso.net/what-is-dark-roast-coffee/

EastGTARedFlagger wrote: ↑ I didn't know I was making coffee using molten copper...
https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/melt ... d_860.html

Read and learn first instead of trying to throw more BS at the wall:
https://www.javapresse.com/blogs/enjoyi ... rter-guide
https://www.javapresse.com/blogs/enjoyi ... ure-coffee

The 195 to 205 degree range isn’t the objective gold standard for water temperature for coffee brewing. It’s just the range that most people around the world tend to use the most because it tends to make the best, most balanced coffee.
I can choose to add 3F, but I won't. I am very happy with 192F for my coffee brewing, and I'm very happy with my Keurig. (which also happens to have an "iced" option, if desired)

Ideal water temperature for brewing is apparently dictated by the degree of roasting. Light roasts can tolerate (or it is preferential to use) higher brew temperatures than darker roasts where lower is preferred, in general. Low temp may underbrew so you get sour, high temp over brew so you get bitter.

None use a regular coffee machine and buy your own grinds.

Nespresso is just so handy to make an American or espresso!!! Keurig is bad

ericlewis91 wrote: ↑ Nespresso is just so handy to make an American or espresso!!! Keurig is bad

So you've tried the new Keurig espresso machine? I have not. I'm not about to, but maybe that might actually be a mistake I'm making.

thriftshopper wrote: ↑Ideal water temperature for brewing is apparently dictated by the degree of roasting. Light roasts can tolerate (or it is preferential to use) higher brew temperatures than darker roasts where lower is preferred, in general. Low temp may underbrew so you get sour, high temp over brew so you get bitter.

Exactly. I always find it funny when some wiseguy thinks he knows better than coffee experts. What does he do when following a recipe that says "bake 40 minutes at 350"? Does he say to himself "I know more about cooking than Gordon Ramsay, I'm baking it 30 minutes at 325 and I know my version will turn out better"... There's a reason why I follow the recipe of brewing at 200F plus or minus 5. I don't have to experiment to find the ideal temp, the experts already did it for me, and if I follow their instructions I can be confident I'll get a good result. Just like how you don't have to reverse-engineer a Gordon Ramsay dish, just get the recipe and follow it exactly and your result should come close enough. Start playing fast and loose with the recipe and...

ericlewis91 wrote: ↑Nespresso is just so handy to make an American or espresso!!! Keurig is bad

No kidding! I will say if you want speed and quality but don't have the budget for a superautomatic, Nespresso is the obvious way to go. Note that I said SUPERautomatic. There's still a lot of manual work to be done with an automatic.
And if you refill Nespresso pods, what you're really doing is dosing and tamping, just using the pod instead of a portafilter. I would love a superautomatic (maybe a Jura) but for my current needs and budget, my Nespresso plus my collection of French presses, moka pots, and ibrik do the job.

playnicee1 wrote: ↑ So you've tried the new Keurig espresso machine? I have not. I'm not about to, but maybe that might actually be a mistake I'm making.

You're making the right choice by avoiding Keurig. Keurig DOES NOT DO ESPRESSO. I'll save you the humiliation of shooting yourself in the foot yet again by directing you to Keurig'S OWN WEBSITE which admits it:
https://www.keurig.ca/brewers/k-cafe-si ... lack_color

Scroll down to the FAQ/User Guide. I'll copy-paste the relevant text here to save you the trouble...

Does the K-Café™ coffee, latte and cappuccino maker produce and brew real espresso?
The K-Cafe™ coffee maker does not use pressure to brew K-Cup® pods, which is required to brew true espresso. It brews the K-Cup® pods the way any other Keurig® coffee maker brews, but since it only brews at a 2oz size, it is a more concentrated, stronger cup of coffee that resembles the flavour and roast of a classic espresso beverage. The K-Café™ coffee maker brews coffee and makes creamy lattes and frothy cappuccinos with the convenience and flexibility of using any K-Cup® pod. The K-Café coffee maker uses low pressure and brews a 59 ml (2oz) coffee shot to serve as the base for a great tasting lattes and cappuccinos.

What a joke. So it's just the same old Keurig system but uses less water so that the drink comes out slightly more concentrated so their uneducated customer base think it's espresso, and then by pitching it as a latte/cappuccino machine, that just means they'll cover their fake espresso with sugar, artificial flavors, and powdered/shelf stable milk. (Espresso has a short extraction time but uses pressure instead) Nespresso and Starbucks Verismo (rebranded K-fee system) machines put out 15-19 bar of pressure. Not zero bar like Keurig.

Going to try to defend this crap product against Nespresso? Your move....

EastGTARedFlagger wrote: ↑ What a joke. So it's just the same old Keurig system but uses less water so that the drink comes out slightly more concentrated so their uneducated customer base think it's espresso, and then by pitching it as a latte/cappuccino machine, that just means they'll cover their fake espresso with sugar, artificial flavors, and powdered/shelf stable milk. (Espresso has a short extraction time but uses pressure instead) Nespresso and Starbucks Verismo (rebranded K-fee system) machines put out 15-19 bar of pressure. Not zero bar like Keurig.

Going to try to defend this crap product against Nespresso? Your move....

No, you do add your own milk, at least, but thanks for the important info. It's good that I'm not wasting money on their latest ideas just because You tube seems to make them look good...

One good thing the pod are good for are 1) very dark roast/oily bean (correlation between the two) and 2) flavoured coffee. Both will gum up a superautomatic (or any burr grinder).

Depends how important taste is to you.

Kuerig to me takes like flavored water. I have tried many times with different machines and it’s always bad! But of course much cheaper then Nespresso.

I have both Nespresso original and the Vertuo. Love then both! (I also have a Saeco automatic espresso machine so I know all sorts of coffee tastes)
If you want regular coffee you have no choice except going with the vertuo. If you prefer espresso drinks the pods are cheaper on the original model.

Personally I really like the taste of vertuo and think the crema is amazing. As a bonus, I also don’t have to use sugar, which I normally do for drip coffee and Kuerig

lexar123 wrote: ↑ Keurig to me takes like flavored water. I have tried many times with different machines and it’s always bad! But of course much cheaper then Nespresso.
I have both Nespresso original and the Vertuo. Love then both! (I also have a Saeco automatic espresso machine so I know all sorts of coffee tastes)
If you want regular coffee you have no choice except going with the vertuo. If you prefer espresso drinks the pods are cheaper on the original model.
Personally I really like the taste of vertuo and think the crema is amazing. As a bonus, I also don’t have to use sugar, which I normally do for drip coffee and Kuerig

Have you ever tried to refill either Nespresso version (Original or Vertuo)? Doing so would take care of the cost issue (70 cents+ per original pod is pricy). If so, did it work out? I figure you'd get more value out of refilling Vertuo capsules as those are more expensive.