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Condo legality and renovation issues...

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Condo legality and renovation issues...

This condo living is frankly....just sorta pissing me off in someways...


I've moved into a place that's three stories...bottom floor is where I live.

The middle floor person took out a supporting wall in their condo...it is likely having significant impact now to the bottom and top floors...cracks and creaks and whatever else...

We've had structural engineers come out and take a look around...I've been in contact with lawyers and condo boards but I am just confused about this and was wondering if anyone has dealt with it before...

A) Can we make the person put back in the supporting wall? Does legal action need to be taken there? Does the cost of this have to be paid for entirely by that suite? How do we go about proving that the lack of a supporting wall is causing this...do we need to?

B) What if the person living in this suite isn't the person who actually removed the wall but they bought it from the person who did?

C) ****
People who are in my gang: Nikita, Spidey, weedb0y, jcoltage, deep, pitz, Sylvestre, Icedawn, 3weddings, Ambermoon, CSK'sMom, jazzsax, bokep, matdwyer, Dash, KorruptioN, angekfire, sxz, WontonTiger, YYZFA, king_george, 45ED, sxz, Ojam

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The condo board wasn't willing to help you? From what I've heard they're usually pretty good at taking care of these sort of things.

I can't imagine the person above you was allowed to take out any wall supporting or not without the experess permission of the board and if a wall was indeed taken out one would think they would need a permit. That's a pretty big task and has a lot of ramifications.

I can't really help you as I'm not a lawyer but if you haven't pushed the condo board hard enough I would certainly push harder before you escalate it.
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Evil Baby wrote: The condo board wasn't willing to help you? From what I've heard they're usually pretty good at taking care of these sort of things.

I can't imagine the person above you was allowed to take out any wall supporting or not without the experess permission of the board and if a wall was indeed taken out one would think they would need a permit. That's a pretty big task and has a lot of ramifications.

I can't really help you as I'm not a lawyer but if you haven't pushed the condo board hard enough I would certainly push harder before you escalate it.
+1

The condo corp usually has it's own by-laws that prohibit such renovations that compromise the structure of the units. I would bring this up with the board again.

Attend your condo meetings and bring it up there as well. There's nothing like getting a couple of other concerned owners with you to help push an issue through to the next level.

Hope this helps...
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HeyAddy wrote: +1

The condo corp usually has it's own by-laws that prohibit such renovations that compromise the structure of the units. I would bring this up with the board again.

Attend your condo meetings and bring it up there as well. There's nothing like getting a couple of other concerned owners with you to help push an issue through to the next level.

Hope this helps...
In theory, the person who owned the suite before you should have consulted the condo board before making renovations like that. They would have had to provide structural drawings and an engineering opinion on the work done.

Now it is entirely possible that the person failed to do that, and just ran the renovations "in secret". In that case, it is a "due diligence" issue on your part and you (or the unit owner) are going to be on the hook for damages that it causes to the corporation. It is always the current unit owner that the corp will go after; previous owners are irrelevant. The corporation will come after you for any damages. I don't know if condo insurance will help you in this case, even if it does have provisions against corporate chargebacks, but you should still have insurance regardless.

That said, if the previous owner was not acting in accordance with the by-laws, you may have some kind of case to go after them in civil court, but I am not a lawyer, I don't know that for sure. You should get legal advice from a real condo lawyer.

In this scenario, it is really a case of due diligence, where the buyer must be operating on "caveat emptor" principles.

On the other hand, if the previous owner did everything properly and properly consulted the corporation before doing the renovations, you should get all previous documentation, drawings, communications from the corporation's files on this matter. Keep them filed. If the corporation and/or its engineers failed to realise that this was a harmful renovation but approved it anyway, you may have more options. Regardless, I think that getting all documentation available is a good first step. Then you get a lawyer to assess your options.
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Evil Baby wrote: The condo board wasn't willing to help you? From what I've heard they're usually pretty good at taking care of these sort of things.

Well...I am the condo board for this condominium...
Evil Baby wrote: I can't imagine the person above you was allowed to take out any wall supporting or not without the experess permission of the board and if a wall was indeed taken out one would think they would need a permit. That's a pretty big task and has a lot of ramifications.
I am confident the person did it without permission of the board and didn't get any permits.
Evil Baby wrote: I can't really help you as I'm not a lawyer but if you haven't pushed the condo board hard enough I would certainly push harder before you escalate it.
HeyAddy wrote: +1

The condo corp usually has it's own by-laws that prohibit such renovations that compromise the structure of the units. I would bring this up with the board again.

Attend your condo meetings and bring it up there as well. There's nothing like getting a couple of other concerned owners with you to help push an issue through to the next level.

Hope this helps...


Our condo board is me and two others, none of us know what we are doing and have only been in our positions a year or so...
People who are in my gang: Nikita, Spidey, weedb0y, jcoltage, deep, pitz, Sylvestre, Icedawn, 3weddings, Ambermoon, CSK'sMom, jazzsax, bokep, matdwyer, Dash, KorruptioN, angekfire, sxz, WontonTiger, YYZFA, king_george, 45ED, sxz, Ojam

*WE GONNA GIT YOU!
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Jucius Maximus wrote: In theory, the person who owned the suite before you should have consulted the condo board before making renovations like that. They would have had to provide structural drawings and an engineering opinion on the work done.

Now it is entirely possible that the person failed to do that, and just ran the renovations "in secret". In that case, it is a "due diligence" issue on your part and you (or the unit owner) are going to be on the hook for damages that it causes to the corporation. It is always the current unit owner that the corp will go after; previous owners are irrelevant. The corporation will come after you for any damages. I don't know if condo insurance will help you in this case, even if it does have provisions against corporate chargebacks, but you should still have insurance regardless.

That said, if the previous owner was not acting in accordance with the by-laws, you may have some kind of case to go after them in civil court, but I am not a lawyer, I don't know that for sure. You should get legal advice from a real condo lawyer.

In this scenario, it is really a case of due diligence, where the buyer must be operating on "caveat emptor" principles.

On the other hand, if the previous owner did everything properly and properly consulted the corporation before doing the renovations, you should get all previous documentation, drawings, communications from the corporation's files on this matter. Keep them filed. If the corporation and/or its engineers failed to realise that this was a harmful renovation but approved it anyway, you may have more options. Regardless, I think that getting all documentation available is a good first step. Then you get a lawyer to assess your options.
Some good insight here...I'll remind you though that I didn't remove the wall...I am underneath the suite where it's been removed and it's affecting me.
People who are in my gang: Nikita, Spidey, weedb0y, jcoltage, deep, pitz, Sylvestre, Icedawn, 3weddings, Ambermoon, CSK'sMom, jazzsax, bokep, matdwyer, Dash, KorruptioN, angekfire, sxz, WontonTiger, YYZFA, king_george, 45ED, sxz, Ojam

*WE GONNA GIT YOU!
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hmmm, seeing as how you are the board and afaik it is up to the board to fix this issue that could create an issue in itself.

At this point I would certainly look into contacting a lawyer, preferably one that specializes in condo issues. I'm sure there are plenty of them out there. The board itself must have a process for contacting and contracting lawyers in certain cases.

Does th board have the right to inspect the premises?

Did the board not check the unit before it was sold?

Does the board have any of the drawings of the original unit so you know where walls are supposed to be?

Assuming the board does have the legal right to inspect units, and has the original drawings of the unit, I would suggest the board does inspect the unit. If a wall is missing and there is documentation for the removal of the wall then I would work on getting a structural engineer in there, also look into permits applied for and granted for that unit. I'm 95% somebody would need a permit to remove any wall from the city.

When somebody buys a unit in your condo is it stated in their agreements that they have go through the board before they can do structural changes, or other major cosmetic changes?
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Evil Baby wrote: hmmm, seeing as how you are the board and afaik it is up to the board to fix this issue that could create an issue in itself.

At this point I would certainly look into contacting a lawyer, preferably one that specializes in condo issues. I'm sure there are plenty of them out there. The board itself must have a process for contacting and contracting lawyers in certain cases.

Does th board have the right to inspect the premises?

Did the board not check the unit before it was sold?

Does the board have any of the drawings of the original unit so you know where walls are supposed to be?

Assuming the board does have the legal right to inspect units, and has the original drawings of the unit, I would suggest the board does inspect the unit. If a wall is missing and there is documentation for the removal of the wall then I would work on getting a structural engineer in there, also look into permits applied for and granted for that unit. I'm 95% somebody would need a permit to remove any wall from the city.

When somebody buys a unit in your condo is it stated in their agreements that they have go through the board before they can do structural changes, or other major cosmetic changes?
Some good points here...unfortunately the "board" was compromised of the people IN THIS SUITE who moved out....and it was far before any of hte current board members time.

I have lots of condo issues and trust me..i do seek professional and legal advise but it's all over the place and sometimes really expensive to get...I do appreciate everyone's help/suggestions and opinions here.

I am actually looking through our bylas now (all 110 pages of them...yikes) but here are the answers I know so far...


Does th board have the right to inspect the premises? Yes, upon certain circumstances.

Did the board not check the unit before it was sold? Before my time but we don't normally check the suites so I'd say officially "no"

Does the board have any of the drawings of the original unit so you know where walls are supposed to be? I have all the blueprints and architectural drawings.

When somebody buys a unit in your condo is it stated in their agreements that they have go through the board before they can do structural changes, or other major cosmetic changes?

So far I've found a few bylaws that could be interpreted that way but nothing in "plainspeak" most say things like "can't change anything internally that might void insurance or cause a fire hazard"...nothing about significant renovations...
People who are in my gang: Nikita, Spidey, weedb0y, jcoltage, deep, pitz, Sylvestre, Icedawn, 3weddings, Ambermoon, CSK'sMom, jazzsax, bokep, matdwyer, Dash, KorruptioN, angekfire, sxz, WontonTiger, YYZFA, king_george, 45ED, sxz, Ojam

*WE GONNA GIT YOU!
[OP]
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found it....

Section 2bb

Make or cause to be made any structural alteration or addition to his Unit or any alternation in his Privacy Area(s), that has not otherwise been specifically referred to herein, without first having the design specifications of such alteration or addition approved in writing by the Board. Any alteration or addition made by an Owner without such approval may be restored or removed by the Board ior it's duly authorized representative(s) and any costs incurred by the Corporation as are result thereof shall forthwith be paid by such Owner to the Corporation and such costs shall bear interest at the rate of eighteen (18%) percent per annum (or such other rate of interest as may be approved fro time to time by the Board) from te time such costs are incurred until paid.


So...looks like I can tell her to put that wall backup...but that sucks...she has lived there 2 years and it was the person before her who did it..I wonder if she can seek legal action against him?
People who are in my gang: Nikita, Spidey, weedb0y, jcoltage, deep, pitz, Sylvestre, Icedawn, 3weddings, Ambermoon, CSK'sMom, jazzsax, bokep, matdwyer, Dash, KorruptioN, angekfire, sxz, WontonTiger, YYZFA, king_george, 45ED, sxz, Ojam

*WE GONNA GIT YOU!
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ullyeus wrote: Some good insight here...I'll remind you though that I didn't remove the wall...I am underneath the suite where it's been removed and it's affecting me.
I'm sorry, I thought you meant that your own suite was 3 levels like a penthouse and your main living area was on the bottom level.
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ullyeus wrote: So...looks like I can tell her to put that wall backup...but that sucks...she has lived there 2 years and it was the person before her who did it..I wonder if she can seek legal action against him?
This is a question for condo lawyers. Do not attempt to navigate this issue yourself as a board member. You need to follow legal advice so that you are guaranteed to be indemnified and found non-negligent and protected by corporate liability insurance as specified under the condo act.

Furthermore, since your own unit is affected, you may have to declare a conflict of interest as required under the condo act and bow out of all discussions on this matter.
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ullyeus wrote: .....she has lived there 2 years and it was the person before her who did it..I wonder if she can seek legal action against him?
Yes, usually condo purchase agreements have standard clauses like:
[INDENT]seller covenants that no improvements, additions or repairs which require the consent of the condominium corporation have been carried out without such consent in the said unit or upon its exclusive use areas or common elements[/INDENT]
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l69norm wrote: Yes, usually condo purchase agreements have standard clauses like:
[INDENT]seller covenants that no improvements, additions or repairs which require the consent of the condominium corporation have been carried out without such consent in the said unit or upon its exclusive use areas or common elements[/INDENT]
thanks! I am going to check my purchase agreement...good input guys! I owe you all a drink.
People who are in my gang: Nikita, Spidey, weedb0y, jcoltage, deep, pitz, Sylvestre, Icedawn, 3weddings, Ambermoon, CSK'sMom, jazzsax, bokep, matdwyer, Dash, KorruptioN, angekfire, sxz, WontonTiger, YYZFA, king_george, 45ED, sxz, Ojam

*WE GONNA GIT YOU!
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Usually, the board/management or their lawyer will write to the owner and ask them to comply by a specific deadline. If they don't then the corporation will do the repair and bill the owner for the cost of repairs. They can also bill the owner for the costs associated with getting complaince ie the legal fees and engineering fees. Unfortunately, the current owner is responsible. This is why it is important to get a home inspection even when buying a condo and to carefully review the status certificate.

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