Food & Drink

Country of origin markings on Food

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Deal Fanatic
Oct 7, 2007
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sean99 wrote: @Pete_Coach I think companies don't want us to know where food products are produced because we might not purchase them if we knew.

For example I recently bought a number of various types of Jelly candies from a major retailer, after reading the labeling I noticed they are all made in China. I honestly doubt I would have made the purchase orginally If I had read the label. Because I know the food processing & food safety standards are not the same as in Canada.

I did find this article regarding the Prime Minister stance of the issue:
https://canadians.org/analysis/trudeau- ... n-labeling

However I filled out the form on contact Office of the Prime Minister requesting all food products sold in Canada have country of orgin labeling be mandated by law.
I will write a snail mail letter to the Conservative and NDP leaders requested the same.
This is so true. When things are made in Italy or Germany, the manufacturer will usually post this in big, bold letters all over the packaging. But this is not the case with all countries of origin.
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Oct 7, 2007
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gr8dlr wrote: This is going a bit OT.

Cost of doing business is why lot of things come from overseas. Companies/businesses in North America do not want to invest hundreds of millions of $ building plants/manufacturing when the status quo environment is under threat to change from day to day ie gov't to gov't.

You should try and talk to ppl who run their own businesses "locally" and ask them their perspective of running a business here. Red tape, rules and regulations, employment standards, benefits, etc etc etc. Some rules/regs are OK and are there for valid reasons, some aren't. What's valid/fair is dependent on who's perspective you're looking at it from.

Even though the raw food may be from China, you can still be "local" oriented. Support a Cdn company who has HO in Cda, packages product locally, has bricks and mortar locally, employs locally etc.
You raise some interesting points of discussion which I think are quite valid. It is also getting closer to the source of the problem/opportunity.

Canada's current oversight (and leadership self-admittedly), is not friendly to businesses and this translates into less opportunities to grow the private sector of our economy. It also limits the choice consumers have when buying products and wanting to buy Canadian. If we were to ask our leaders to create the fertile ground for encouraging manufacturing, perhaps things would change.

I have always been very interested in manufacturing and was fortunate enough to land a senior position at a manufacturing plant very young in my career. It really was a thrill to see our products in high demand from countries all over the world and to know that some places would gladly pay very top dollar for such. I think everyone went home at the end of the day feeling like they were contributing to the economy and it was a really great feeling. Sadly, the business eventually shuttered as real estate took over more and more of my city. Soon some of us are going to wish that we had kept the businesses that kept our economy diversified. But perhaps now is a good time to revisit where we want to go as a country from an economic standpoint. Perhaps we want to be more self-reliant when it comes to our food, our medication, our PPE, etc.

If the government changed their ways, I would seriously consider opening up my own manufacturing facility. But until there is more confidence, I wouldn't be comfortable with the risks either.

Food for thought, anyway.
Deal Fanatic
Oct 7, 2007
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gr8dlr wrote: Like a said, try running a business and you'll see this is not easily done.

Eg Allen's apple Juice. They buys apples from all over the world and the source changes depending on seasonality, pricing, weather at source etc. Sometimes the product gets mixed together because you might not have enough product from one supplier so you have to source 4 different suppliers.

Eg, Quaker granola, honey, oats, nuts, etc Do you want to increase the ingredient label to say Honey (0-20% Canada, 0-50% China, 0-20% Brazil, 20-30% Russia, 10-20% Greece), Oats (0-20% Canada, 0-50% China, 0-20% Brazil, 20-30% Russia, 10-20% Greece), Peanuts (0-20% Canada, 0-50% China, 0-20% Brazil, 20-30% Russia, 10-20% greece), almonds ....


But the country changes from time to time a lot more frequently than you may realize so the product you buy 1 month ago is not the product from 3 months ago. So what if my label says 10-60% China, 10-30% Canada, 10-50% USA 10-50% Brazil? If the geography origin changes, do you reprint the 1 millions labels you have on hand and throw the old ones out?

Then you might get lawsuits - I bought this product of Canada and I found out it's from Wisconsin.

If you were to trace everything and regulate this, the $4 Highliner fish finger is now $8 and who's gonna have the money to pay for all the food inflation? So now you gotta raise the minimum wage so ppl can eat? We still haven't addressed do you label based on $ cost breakdown or weight breakdown etc.

Things may seem simple but they're very very complex times 1,000.
I agree that this type of labelling will be more work for the manufacturer BUT with technology and automation, it should not be that difficult. And, transparency is really important and valued by the consumer.

When I grocery shop, I am always impressed by the number of shoppers who are standing in the aisles reading the labels on products before throwing them into their cart. I don't actually know what they are reading specifically but I do think they care about what they are buying and that is why they are reading the labels.

I am also impressed by the sentiment of shoppers. As an example, a month ago I was at my local Walmart looking at the cherries. A lady came to buy some cherries and she spoke out loud saying "Oh, these are the U.S. cherries". She put the bag back down and said, "I like the BC cherries. I am going to wait until those come in."

I think this kind of sentiment and care is awesome.
Deal Expert
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Sep 1, 2005
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Markham
choclover wrote: I agree that this type of labelling will be more work for the manufacturer BUT with technology and automation, it should not be that difficult. And, transparency is really important and valued by the consumer.

When I grocery shop, I am always impressed by the number of shoppers who are standing in the aisles reading the labels on products before throwing them into their cart. I don't actually know what they are reading specifically but I do think they care about what they are buying and that is why they are reading the labels.

I am also impressed by the sentiment of shoppers. As an example, a month ago I was at my local Walmart looking at the cherries. A lady came to buy some cherries and she spoke out loud saying "Oh, these are the U.S. cherries". She put the bag back down and said, "I like the BC cherries. I am going to wait until those come in."

I think this kind of sentiment and care is awesome.
Being able to buy LOCAL already exists and smart LOCAL companies will and obviously should "shout out loud" that they are local. Having said that some LOCAL companies will lie as there is nobody to check them. That's a different problem. The more policy/procedures/regulations "we" or rather some ppl want will ultimately lead to other policy/procedure/regulations which in turn leads to costs which could lead to other "dislocations"....so be careful what is asked for.

Re. Technology and Automation...it is very difficult IMO (for some items) if you read my example. Allen's Apple Juice was an example because I think Marketplace on CBC did a story and they used Apple Juice as an example. The country of origin likely changes all the time (global sourcing) so in theory they'd have to provide percentage ranges (IMO) for country of origin which really dilutes the purpose/idea of providing the info.

Bottom line: Bigger companies or those who decide not to/or those who can't easily provide it...that is their choice and as a consumer you are well within you right to not buy it.
FYI the Marketplace story also highlighted, you can call company "hotlines" for info like country of origin if you want the info...it's just not easy to get and may not be that accurate..
We're all bozos on the bus until we find a way to express ourselves...

Failure is always an option...just not the preferred one!
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Feb 20, 2007
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NeverNeverLand
I believe...There are many instances where items are farmed and raised from one country (ie. China) and processed in another (Indonesia), then shipped to Canada saying its product from "Indonesia". This happens because certain food items are forbidden/restricted to enter N.America from China...so in order to get the product into Canada/USA, its shipped to a country with no restrictions and processed there. Restrictions are implemented to product local farms/suppliers...or food safety.
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Jan 9, 2011
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sean99 wrote: Recently I noticed besides meat, dairy & fresh fruits and vegetables a number of processed food products or drinks just state "Packaged for" or "Imported by" followed by the address of the company. No country of origin listed at all.
It's complicated. Processed foods have ingredients that might come from many different countries. A box of ice cream that is made from local milk and using local labour might have pineapple from the Dominican Republic, sugar from Jamaica, almonds from the USA, coconut from Sri Lanka, vanilla from Madagascar, etc etc. It's not reasonable to list the country of origin of every single ingredient. If you must know, then don't buy processed food.
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Oct 7, 2007
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Kiraly wrote: It's complicated. Processed foods have ingredients that might come from many different countries. A box of ice cream that is made from local milk and using local labour might have pineapple from the Dominican Republic, sugar from Jamaica, almonds from the USA, coconut from Sri Lanka, vanilla from Madagascar, etc etc. It's not reasonable to list the country of origin of every single ingredient. If you must know, then don't buy processed food.
This actually isn't a bad idea. We spend quite a bit of our grocery budget on produce and I think, for the most part, we can be confident that the produce labelling for country of origin is marked and accurate. This means we can then make our own juice or produce-derived products. This may take more effort but, in some cases, it is worth it. (For example, after hearing about how Tropicana makes their OJ, I decided to just make my own. It's really not that big of a deal.) As for other items, it may take more effort to source items from countries of origin that consumers prefer to buy from BUT if we are lucky enough to live in countries where consumers have choice, consumer demand will reward companies who fulfill or exceed customer expectations.
Member
Dec 26, 2007
257 posts
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Ottawa
The PM office responded with the following:

On behalf of Prime Minister Justin Trudeau, I would like to acknowledge receipt of your correspondence.

Please be assured that your comments have been carefully reviewed. In your correspondence, you raise an issue that falls within the portfolio of the Honourable Patricia A. Hajdu, Minister of Health. I have therefore taken the liberty of forwarding your email to Minister Hajdu for information and consideration.

Thank you for taking the time to write.


J.P. Vachon

Manager

Executive Correspondence Services

for the Prime Minister's Office
Deal Fanatic
Oct 7, 2007
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sean99 wrote: The PM office responded with the following:

On behalf of Prime Minister Justin Trudeau, I would like to acknowledge receipt of your correspondence.

Please be assured that your comments have been carefully reviewed. In your correspondence, you raise an issue that falls within the portfolio of the Honourable Patricia A. Hajdu, Minister of Health. I have therefore taken the liberty of forwarding your email to Minister Hajdu for information and consideration.

Thank you for taking the time to write.


J.P. Vachon

Manager

Executive Correspondence Services

for the Prime Minister's Office
Thanks for posting the response. Let's see if this goes anywhere.
Member
Dec 26, 2007
257 posts
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Ottawa
Kiraly wrote: It's complicated. Processed foods have ingredients that might come from many different countries. A box of ice cream that is made from local milk and using local labour might have pineapple from the Dominican Republic, sugar from Jamaica, almonds from the USA, coconut from Sri Lanka, vanilla from Madagascar, etc etc. It's not reasonable to list the country of origin of every single ingredient. If you must know, then don't buy processed food.
No Kiraly that is not how I want things to be, so I am pushing for change. When you buy processed food there is usually a main ingredient. In your example is it ice cream, there is no reason why the county of origin for the milk cannot be listed on the container.

If one purchases store bought apple juice, then why is it unreasonable to want to know which country the apples where grown?

If you buy a frozen Shepherd's Pie, where is the beef coming from Canada? USA? Brazil? I dont necessarily need to know where the PEAS & CARROTS came from, but I am interested in knowing the origin of main substances that make up the dish, in this case the potatoes and the beef.

I don't understand why people make excuses for corporations. I want to know where my food is coming. I don't want to look on a package and see "Imported for:" I want to know from which country the food was processed and the origin of the main ingredients.

If you are liked minded then please email the PM, the conservatives & NDP and lets push for change.
Member
Dec 26, 2007
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conservativespost_id=33033431 wrote: Thanks for posting the response. Let's see if this goes anywhere.
Thanks choclover. But one email is not going to do anything. The people in power who can make this change also have to hear from you and other liked minded individuals who want counrty of origin labeling.
Deal Guru
Jul 7, 2017
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SW corner of the cou…
sean99 wrote: If you buy a frozen Shepherd's Pie, where is the beef coming from Canada? USA? Brazil? I dont necessarily need to know where the PEAS & CARROTS came from, but I am interested in knowing the origin of main substances that make up the dish, in this case the potatoes and the beef.
This reminds me of the horse meat scandal in the U.K. a few years back. Food processors were buying their meat from brokers (shady and otherwise). What the actual content and country of origin were all based on what the broker said it was, so it depends on whether you trust the broker or who the broker got the stuff from.

We had enough trouble with the BSE thing a decade or so back because cattle travel the continent (not just for slaughter) so how the heck does one know whether the beef is fully Canadian (or U.S.?)

If you are liked minded then please email the PM, the conservatives & NDP and lets push for change.
[/quote]

You'd think the Conservatives would be for the farmers because that segment is a big component of their vote base. Unfortunately they get a lot of money from corporate donours. Quite a few years ago, the then B.C. provincial government ("Liberal" in name but an unholy alliance of the right and center) even abolished a long-standing programme to label B.C.-grown fruit and vegetables. Popular with local farmers and consumers but probably not with big corporate donours.
I smile when I see container ships sailing past my house laden with stuff made in China
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Oct 7, 2007
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sean99 wrote: Thanks choclover. But one email is not going to do anything. The people in power who can make this change also have to hear from you and other liked minded individuals who want counrty of origin labeling.
Perhaps a petition would add some weight to this cause and be a more efficient way of demonstrating how important this cause is. I was quite engaged in a different cause related to the unconsenting use of smart meters along with many other people and sadly no one at any level of government gave this any importance. I find the lack of political will from our politicians to truly listen to their people highly disappointing. The opinion of the politicians should not outweigh that of the people they represent.
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Jul 7, 2017
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choclover wrote: Perhaps a petition would add some weight to this cause and be a more efficient way of demonstrating how important this cause is. I was quite engaged in a different cause related to the unconsenting use of smart meters along with many other people and sadly no one at any level of government gave this any importance. I find the lack of political will from our politicians to truly listen to their people highly disappointing. The opinion of the politicians should not outweigh that of the people they represent.
Where are you located? In B.C., it was the agenda of the then government to impose smart meters for some reason. Other than saving meter reading, I don't think there was any practical necessity. Not that there was ever time-of-use tariffs which some pundirs thought was the agenda.
I smile when I see container ships sailing past my house laden with stuff made in China
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Oct 7, 2007
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thriftshopper wrote: Where are you located? In B.C., it was the agenda of the then government to impose smart meters for some reason. Other than saving meter reading, I don't think there was any practical necessity. Not that there was ever time-of-use tariffs which some pundirs thought was the agenda.
Yes, that's where I am. If they did save money on meter reading, it isn't reflected in the rates which were continuously being increased after the installation of these meters. And these were expensive to install and no referendum was carried out asking permission from taxpayers about it before the purchase and installation of smart meters went ahead.

But there was a strong movement against the smart meters here (for a variety of different reasons but some of the popular ones were health and privacy). There were even a few cases of house fires cited. Many other jurisdictions where the people complained, the governments ruled in favour of the people but in BC the people who complained about this were mostly ignored. Some of the people were so upset by how they were treated that they tried getting off the grid using alternative sources of energy, if you can believe it. Regardless of what the government thinks on any topic, I think if the people have concerns or do not agree with it, the government in a democracy should allow their concerns to be listened to and heard.
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Jul 7, 2017
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Getting off topic about food labelling but...
choclover wrote: Yes, that's where I am. If they did save money on meter reading, it isn't reflected in the rates which were continuously being increased after the installation of these meters. And these were expensive to install and no referendum was carried out asking permission from taxpayers about it before the purchase and installation of smart meters went ahead.

But there was a strong movement against the smart meters here (for a variety of different reasons but some of the popular ones were health and privacy). There were even a few cases of house fires cited. Many other jurisdictions where the people complained, the governments ruled in favour of the people but in BC the people who complained about this were mostly ignored. Some of the people were so upset by how they were treated that they tried getting off the grid using alternative sources of energy, if you can believe it. Regardless of what the government thinks on any topic, I think if the people have concerns or do not agree with it, the government in a democracy should allow their concerns to be listened to and heard.
Lots of stuff was never referred to the BCUC by the previous government. (FWIW, never earned my vote once since before 2001).

The previous government at one time (until they realised they were down in the polls) wanted to raise energy rates yearly until they doubled.

https://www.grandforksgazette.ca/news/e ... dro-rates/

Back to topic. Vote with your wallet and don't buy stuff where contry of origin of the main underlying ingredients isn't listed.
I smile when I see container ships sailing past my house laden with stuff made in China
Deal Fanatic
Oct 7, 2007
9404 posts
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thriftshopper wrote: Getting off topic about food labelling but...



Lots of stuff was never referred to the BCUC by the previous government. (FWIW, never earned my vote once since before 2001).

The previous government at one time (until they realised they were down in the polls) wanted to raise energy rates yearly until they doubled.

https://www.grandforksgazette.ca/news/e ... dro-rates/

Back to topic. Vote with your wallet and don't buy stuff where contry of origin of the main underlying ingredients isn't listed.
Agreed. This is the most powerful method of communication that everyone seems to understand.
Member
Dec 26, 2007
257 posts
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Ottawa
Just a quick update. I received the following email / letter from Tammy Switucha of the Canadian Food Inspection Agency .


I am writing in response to your email to the Right Honourable Justin Trudeau regarding
origin labelling on Canadian food products. As you know, the Prime Minister’s Office
forwarded your email to the Honourable Patty Hajdu, Minister of Health, who has asked
me to respond on her behalf. I appreciate the opportunity.

Currently, when a food is wholly manufactured outside of Canada, the label must
indicate that the food is imported. As you are aware, certain foods also require the
country to be identified. These include dairy, wine, egg, fish, fresh fruits and vegetables,
some processed fruits and vegetables, maple and honey products, and meat. You can
learn more details about a product by inquiring with the manufacturer directly using
contact information that is also on the label.
Currently, there are two voluntary labelling claims that you can look for on food labels to
identify products as Canadian. These are “Product of Canada” and “Made in Canada.”
We are reviewing the guidelines for “Product of Canada” and “Made in Canada” claims
and have consulted with the food industry and with Canadians on proposed changes.
Our goal is to help the food industry produce and market Canadian products, and to
help consumers to identify them.

You can learn more about these consultations at www.inspection.gc.ca/aboutcfia/transpar ... 8707125782.

You can learn more about current “Product of Canada” and “Made in Canada” labelling
guidelines at www.inspection.gc.ca/food/requirements- ... 592?chap=5.

I trust that this information will be helpful to you. Again, thank you for writing.
Sincerely,

Tammy Switucha
Executive Director
Food Safety and Consumer Protection Directorate
Canadian Food Inspection Agency / Government of Canada
Deal Fanatic
Oct 7, 2007
9404 posts
5374 upvotes
sean99 wrote: Just a quick update. I received the following email / letter from Tammy Switucha of the Canadian Food Inspection Agency .


I am writing in response to your email to the Right Honourable Justin Trudeau regarding
origin labelling on Canadian food products. As you know, the Prime Minister’s Office
forwarded your email to the Honourable Patty Hajdu, Minister of Health, who has asked
me to respond on her behalf. I appreciate the opportunity.

Currently, when a food is wholly manufactured outside of Canada, the label must
indicate that the food is imported. As you are aware, certain foods also require the
country to be identified. These include dairy, wine, egg, fish, fresh fruits and vegetables,
some processed fruits and vegetables, maple and honey products, and meat. You can
learn more details about a product by inquiring with the manufacturer directly using
contact information that is also on the label.
Currently, there are two voluntary labelling claims that you can look for on food labels to
identify products as Canadian. These are “Product of Canada” and “Made in Canada.”
We are reviewing the guidelines for “Product of Canada” and “Made in Canada” claims
and have consulted with the food industry and with Canadians on proposed changes.
Our goal is to help the food industry produce and market Canadian products, and to
help consumers to identify them.

You can learn more about these consultations at www.inspection.gc.ca/aboutcfia/transpar ... 8707125782.

You can learn more about current “Product of Canada” and “Made in Canada” labelling
guidelines at www.inspection.gc.ca/food/requirements- ... 592?chap=5.

I trust that this information will be helpful to you. Again, thank you for writing.
Sincerely,

Tammy Switucha
Executive Director
Food Safety and Consumer Protection Directorate
Canadian Food Inspection Agency / Government of Canada
Thanks for going to the trouble and posting your response. As a proactive consumer, I pay attention to where my food comes from and may opt not to buy things from certain origins for a variety of different reasons. Transparency seems to hold all to the highest accountability. I hope your inquiry gets us better transparency.
Deal Guru
Dec 20, 2018
10135 posts
10247 upvotes
gr8dlr wrote: This is going a bit OT.

Cost of doing business is why lot of things come from overseas. Companies/businesses in North America do not want to invest hundreds of millions of $ building plants/manufacturing when the status quo environment is under threat to change from day to day ie gov't to gov't.

You should try and talk to ppl who run their own businesses "locally" and ask them their perspective of running a business here. Red tape, rules and regulations, employment standards, benefits, etc etc etc. Some rules/regs are OK and are there for valid reasons, some aren't. What's valid/fair is dependent on who's perspective you're looking at it from.

Even though the raw food may be from China, you can still be "local" oriented. Support a Cdn company who has HO in Cda, packages product locally, has bricks and mortar locally, employs locally etc.
Small businesses doing so great here especially during pandemic. So easy to setup shop and way less red tape than china, that's for sure!

People/small businesses who don't succeed here is because they shouldn't , not because of red tape or regulations

Seems interesting as well you complain about regulations and red tape in a thread that complains there's not enough of it? Lol the OP and some of the follow up posts is advocating more of it since they want clearer/more stringent labeling requirements which is clearly regulations/red tape?

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