angryaudifanatic wrote: ↑ This took me completely by surprise. Please don't kill the messenger, but I hope this sort of news story helps inform the general public about what to expect in the coming years.
https://nationalpost.com/health/not-goi ... -they-seem
The most important line in the article is one that has not been debunked by any other source because it is fact.ElroyJetson wrote: ↑ That newspaper article is 90% guesses and sensationalism.
The overwhelming probability is that an effective vaccine will end the pandemic. Look for meaningful details in medical journals, not the popular press where the writer often has little or no medical expertise but is good at slanting stories with edgy headlines.
The boneheads are going to make it a little easier to get the vaccine for non-boneheads. After that, the boneheads can then be convinced.Phonophoresis wrote: ↑ The vaccine won't end the pandemic because too many boneheads are going to refuse to get it.
angryaudifanatic wrote: ↑ This is, hands down the BEST article I have read on this subject. It may not be 'great' news, but it's thorough news reporting. Don't shoot the messenger please.
Please please read this everyone. I don't think there's any 'arguments' to be made against the content here, either.
https://thetyee.ca/Analysis/2020/11/26/ ... rspective/
The media seems to reinforce this belief as is government leadership that somehow vaccines will bring back everything to pre-covid normality. Heck, I'm guilty of believing them from time to time.82 wrote: ↑ Did you see anyone think the vaccine will end the pandemic soon in this thread? There are lots of unanswered questions and there is zero published phase 3 data for any vaccine candidates. Nobody should expect the pandemic will end anytime soon but at least we can say vaccine development has not disappoint so far...
I've never taken a flu shot.angryaudifanatic wrote: ↑ The media seems to reinforce this belief as is government leadership that somehow vaccines will bring back everything to pre-covid normality. Heck, I'm guilty of believing them from time to time.
Then again, Canadians, well...are becoming more and more unwilling to want to take this vaccine (reading b/w the lines). This is from an hour ago.
https://globalnews.ca/news/7488523/coro ... ory-ipsos/
This is an interesting one, actually. I'm a senior, been wearing N95 masks and just today someone commented about me wearing gloves when I was at the grocery store today. I try and take all of the precautions that I can. Yes, I Lysol everything, go do the minimum amount of shopping around, and when I go, I go in the dark (at night) when there's less people around.joneslocker wrote: ↑ I've never taken a flu shot.
And I likely won't take the Covid 'vaccine' either.
Not because I don't believe in science, but because I don't believe in CEO's spewing shit to drive their stock higher and I don't trust the politicians and their allegiances.
Think about how all these "smart people" handled Covid from the onset.
Now think that these same people are handling mass vaccinations.... No thanks.
To be fair, influenza mutates much faster than COVID-19 does, and while there have been 20 or so strains identified none are more or less deadly. In fact, the feared Cluster 5 variant is apparently more susceptible to the vaccine.kimmelite wrote: ↑ OP, as you know, we get a flu shot each year as the strains of influenza changes each year. Influenza has not ended. We have found a way to minimize death due to influenza by immunization. Novel corona virus morbidity and mortality decreased when vaccines are available.
As others have said, please do not get your vaccine advice from the National Post. Please refer to scholarly journals.
THIS !! the ones thinking your government has YOUR best interests and care about you are the ones who are boneheads and sheep. they have an agenda and a plan and if it means removing you so they can complete this plan then guess what happens to you. it scares me the most that you calling others boneheads are actually the ones giving into what the government wants and basically lead the way to us losing our rights and freedoms. you need to question things before handing over your trust... or you are the ones to blame for the outcome of what's about to happen.joneslocker wrote: ↑ I've never taken a flu shot.
And I likely won't take the Covid 'vaccine' either.
Not because I don't believe in science, but because I don't believe in CEO's spewing shit to drive their stock higher and I don't trust the politicians and their allegiances.
Think about how all these "smart people" handled Covid from the onset.
Now think that these same people are handling mass vaccinations.... No thanks.
Yep, this is a first of it's kind vaccine but the science behind it - the understanding of it - has been around for ages. It's just now it's more feasible for it to be done..angryaudifanatic wrote: ↑ This is an interesting one, actually. I'm a senior, been wearing N95 masks and just today someone commented about me wearing gloves when I was at the grocery store today. I try and take all of the precautions that I can. Yes, I Lysol everything, go do the minimum amount of shopping around, and when I go, I go in the dark (at night) when there's less people around.
Am I running to the front of the line to get this vaccine? No. Am I an anti-vaxxer? Hell no, and have been immunized with everything I should be. Do I have an OK understanding of Science? I think so as one of my degrees is in Science. The reality is that Moderna's first vaccine that is about to be successful is the one against COVID-19, and that and Pfizer's vaccine's are both mRNA based. These are the first of its kind to fight against viruses. Am I saying that I don't believe they work? Of course not - the results are what the results are. However, 10 months or so from beginning to end seems suspect and there are a few things that cannot be disputed.
1) No one knows how long these vaccines will provide immunity for
2) No one knows if these vaccines will prevent asymptomatic spread
3) The side effects of these vaccines (~5-10%) are more significant than that of your regular flu shot (no, these aren't fatal at all, of course, just more painful, more swelling and/or more fatigue - but these only last 24-48 hours).
4) No one knows what the long term side effects are.
^is a lot of risk for the average Joe/Jane to swallow to run to the front of the line.
So I won't beat around the bush. I'm somewhat educated, am in the high risk category, and I will not be anywhere near the front of the line. I know people will throw rocks at me and mock me, but I'll continue practicing social distancing, mask wearing, and the like. I live alone, so it's not like I need this vaccine anyway.
To be fair, influenza mutates much faster than COVID-19 does, and while there have been 20 or so strains identified none are more or less deadly. In fact, the feared Cluster 5 variant is apparently more susceptible to the vaccine.
Like everything in life, this is a cost-benefit thing. Did you see the protests in London (UK), Paris, and Toronto/London (Ontario) today? Couple that, with the rushed vaccine, with the media who will blow every single 'bad' reaction to the vaccine to make a $, with Twitter, conspiracy theories and the like, society will never get to herd immunity anyway. So what's the point for the average Joe/Jane?
I mean, everyone should read this and consider the cost of NOT getting a vaccine: https://globalnews.ca/news/7479200/coro ... -research/
All this to state, this is a very personal decision and to each their own, IMHO.
My sincere thanks for the quick summary and my own science knowledge is hazy at best as I have focused my career on law over many decades.joneslocker wrote: ↑ Yep, this is a first of it's kind vaccine but the science behind it - the understanding of it - has been around for ages. It's just now it's more feasible for it to be done..
When you really dig down and study what they've done, it's nothing short of a miracle, and this will be the catalyst the medical industry needs to start making some pretty potent concoctions of medicine in the future.
But... it's new. We don't know what the side effects could be,
For the uninitiated, that don't know what an mRNA vaccine is, the scientists have essentially cut a piece of the virus's RNA out, and will inject you with it. The RNA is basically a blueprint to build a protein molecule.. So, after it goes into a cell, your cells take that blueprint and build the protein. After that, it's released from the cell, and the idea here is that your immune system knows what it's looking for. That way when Covid gets into your body, your body has some idea what it is and can fight it a lot quicker.
After the RNA is "transcribed" into a protein, it's basically dead and broken down to it's amino acids.
The scientists can put "caps" at the end of the RNA strand to stop it from being read again by the body, and do some other interesting stuff with it.
The real questions though about the safety and potential long term side effects, come from how much do scientists really know about playing around with RNA in real humans?
They are all going to tout it's super safe, cause, they know the science behind it.. and in theory, it should be perfectly safe..
But, what if they are wrong?
i dont know what a long term side effect could materialize as.... but, cancer would be my biggest concern - if there was one.
probably costs and scale... im sure with all the government backing this was the chance to take the risk with it.angryaudifanatic wrote: ↑ My sincere thanks for the quick summary and my own science knowledge is hazy at best as I have focused my career on law over many decades.
Im wondering then why it took COVID-19 to cause the scientific community to create these first types of mRNA vaccines? Like you mentioned the know how of this has been around a while. Moderna took two days to create this vaccine and this is their first vaccine against a virus. (everyone skeptical of my claim here can Google it)
Any ideas?
