Health & Wellness

COVID-19 vaccines won't end the pandemic.

Deal Addict
Apr 27, 2015
2888 posts
1542 upvotes
Mississauga
Poutinesauce wrote: How many active cases are there in the whole of Israel today?

There are 677 active cases in the entire country. Ten days ago it was 985. It shrank by a third in ten days!

Hahahaha wow, there are more active cases in my tiny region in Quebec alone!

So, where are the outbreaks of the South African and Indian variant that were sure to come?

I'm still waiting.

As per today , Israel has 594 active cases and among them 58 serious. 2 weeks ago there were about 250 serious cases. And Israel has only 62% of population people who got 1 dose and 59% who got two doses....
Anyone still thinks that variants will start the pandemic all over again? That theory is being proven wrong.
Israel vaccinated theit people only with top vaccines Pfizer and Moderna.... no Chinese crap or even controversial AstraZeneca
"All animals are equal but some animals are more equal than others" George Orwell
Deal Fanatic
Sep 29, 2005
6476 posts
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Montreal
Poutinesauce wrote: How many active cases are there in the whole of Israel today?

There are 677 active cases in the entire country. Ten days ago it was 985. It shrank by a third in ten days!

Hahahaha wow, there are more active cases in my tiny region in Quebec alone!

So, where are the outbreaks of the South African and Indian variant that were sure to come?

I'm still waiting.

Anyone still thinks that variants will start the pandemic all over again? That theory is being proven wrong.
Population of QC 8.45 Million
Population of Israel 9.043 Million
Phils
Deal Addict
Apr 27, 2015
2888 posts
1542 upvotes
Mississauga
Phils wrote: Population of QC 8.45 Million
Population of Israel 9.043 Million
Poutinesauce wasn't talking about whole Quebec. but about his "tiny region " in QC LOL
Let me give you another example, York region has 1,131 active cases (2 times more than in Israel) and 1.11M population (9 times less than Israel)
"All animals are equal but some animals are more equal than others" George Orwell
Deal Expert
Feb 29, 2008
29096 posts
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Montreal
Poutinesauce wrote: Anyone still thinks that variants will start the pandemic all over again? That theory is being proven wrong.
Pandemic? No. Local clusters and outbreaks? Yes. The virus will need constant tracking and monitoring, and careful genomic surveillance. It is clear we need to stay ahead of it.
Deal Guru
Dec 5, 2006
13437 posts
8811 upvotes
Markham
Any new study about how covid impact kids below 12? How easily they can get covid? Whether they actually need vaccines if it's available?

My wife had her first vaccines last week and i will have mine on Saturday. But we still can't travel or do anything if my 10 years old can get covid and be serious sick
Deal Addict
Jul 16, 2019
1556 posts
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smartie wrote: Any new study about how covid impact kids below 12? How easily they can get covid? Whether they actually need vaccines if it's available?

My wife had her first vaccines last week and i will have mine on Saturday. But we still can't travel or do anything if my 10 years old can get covid and be serious sick
Moderna is being tested for 6 months to 12 years. I suspect other vaccines are too but I have not had time to check.
https://www.nbcboston.com/news/coronavi ... n/2381113/
Deal Expert
Feb 29, 2008
29096 posts
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Montreal
smartie wrote: Any new study about how covid impact kids below 12? How easily they can get covid? Whether they actually need vaccines if it's available?

My wife had her first vaccines last week and i will have mine on Saturday. But we still can't travel or do anything if my 10 years old can get covid and be serious sick
Morbidity in children is generally low, although they can get a devastating complication called MIS-C.

Overall, children are as likely or more likely than adults to get infected. They represent 20-25% of all cases.

https://www.cdc.gov/mis-c/hcp/
Newbie
Nov 26, 2017
72 posts
88 upvotes
Vancouver
Latest data out of the UK, if you're wondering about VITT after first and second doses of AZ. Last week's data showed it was roughly 1 in a million for VITT after the second dose (8 cases out of 7.5 million); now, it's 1 in 600,000.

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Aug 29, 2012
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Fauci says that it is justified not to require fully vaccinated people to wear a mask anymore because they become "dead ends" for the virus. Even though breakthrough infections are rare, when they do happen, the people carry so little virus, that they make further asymptomatic spread to others almost impossible for them.

https://thehill.com/homenews/sunday-tal ... oronavirus
Newbie
Nov 26, 2017
72 posts
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Vancouver
Here's a nice Twitter thread by GP Dr. Kate Miller for those concerned about getting their second jab of AZ (also check out her older thread).

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Aug 29, 2012
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https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/15039712/ ... n-variant/

Pfizer vaccine 88% effective against Indian variant after one two doses (93% against UK variant), AstraZeneca vaccine 60% effective (66% against UK variant).

After three weeks of one shot, both vaccines were 33% effective against the Indian variant, compared to 50% for the UK strain.

Although these numbers don't make sense. It looks like again, they have not taken out people who have been contaminated during the first 12 days after the first shot, in which there is no immunity.

The real numbers with one shot once immunity is in place is surely well above just 33%. 50% after one shot for the UK variant makes absolutely no sense.

Also the real AstraZeneca numbers after two doses are probably higher because the two doses are given after a longer interval and the vaccine takes longer to reach its full potential.
Member
Dec 8, 2008
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Poutinesauce wrote: https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/15039712/ ... n-variant/

Pfizer vaccine 88% effective against Indian variant after one two doses (93% against UK variant), AstraZeneca vaccine 60% effective (66% against UK variant).

After three weeks of one shot, both vaccines were 33% effective against the Indian variant, compared to 50% for the UK strain.

Although these numbers don't make sense. It looks like again, they have not taken out people who have been contaminated during the first 12 days after the first shot, in which there is no immunity.

The real numbers with one shot once immunity is in place is surely well above just 33%. 50% after one shot for the UK variant makes absolutely no sense.

Also the real AstraZeneca numbers after two doses are probably higher because the two doses are given after a longer interval and the vaccine takes longer to reach its full potential.
And what about Moderna?
Deal Addict
Aug 12, 2007
4135 posts
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Thornhill
Bubblejoy1 wrote: And what about Moderna?
UK doesn't use much Moderna, majority of their vaccines were AstraZeneca, followed by Pfizer.
So they won't have too much data on Moderna.
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Aug 29, 2012
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blueraindrop wrote: COVID-19: Current coronavirus vaccines unlikely to protect against new variants in future, SAGE warns

The government's scientific advisers say COVID may continue to evolve for years to come and "eradication is extremely unlikely".

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-cur ... s-12312976
That report is basically just speculation and lies on nothing.
Deal Expert
Feb 7, 2017
23565 posts
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Eastern Ontario
blueraindrop wrote: COVID-19: Current coronavirus vaccines unlikely to protect against new variants in future, SAGE warns

The government's scientific advisers say COVID may continue to evolve for years to come and "eradication is extremely unlikely".

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-cur ... s-12312976
Not surprising

Viruses mutate. As long as they exist and can find hosts to feed on.

If we don’t get to herd immunity worldwide ... then ya the virus will continue to exist & evolve.

Canada looks like it will be one country to get there ... so we may have an easier time after ORIGINAL Covid 19 Vaccine
Like a few other countries ... Israel, UK, etc where vaccine acceptance is very high

But if other countries never get to herd immunity ... then new variants will come about that will need to be treated / vaccine tweaked
(Sort of in the same way we treat the annual Influenza / Flu Shot )

If the USA never gets to herd immunity ... they will forever be a source of transmission onto us ... even if we restrict their presence here (vaccine passport required for foreigners visiting Canada) ... a large # of Cdns will always visit the USA ... and in turn some will bring the latest virus home.

* NOTE - only one disease has ever been truly eradicated thru vaccination
And that’s smallpox
Two reasons ...
1- it was a massive killer worldwide
2- it was a very ugly visible disease with its pox
So there was strong motivation the world over to combat it

Covid is an invisible killer.
And unless it starts killing off a large portion of younger otherwise healthy people (or kids)
There’s not gonna be a whole lot of motivation to eradicate it worldwide
Or even for the USA to get their own population vaccinated to 70%+ Herd Immunity
Deal Guru
Dec 5, 2006
13437 posts
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Markham
PointsHubby wrote: Not surprising

Viruses mutate. As long as they exist and can find hosts to feed on.

If we don’t get to herd immunity worldwide ... then ya the virus will continue to exist & evolve.

Canada looks like it will be one country to get there ... so we may have an easier time after ORIGINAL Covid 19 Vaccine
Like a few other countries ... Israel, UK, etc where vaccine acceptance is very high

But if other countries never get to herd immunity ... then new variants will come about that will need to be treated / vaccine tweaked
(Sort of in the same way we treat the annual Influenza / Flu Shot )

If the USA never gets to herd immunity ... they will forever be a source of transmission onto us ... even if we restrict their presence here (vaccine passport required for foreigners visiting Canada) ... a large # of Cdns will always visit the USA ... and in turn some will bring the latest virus home.

* NOTE - only one disease has ever been truly eradicated thru vaccination
And that’s smallpox
Two reasons ...
1- it was a massive killer worldwide
2- it was a very ugly visible disease with its pox
So there was strong motivation the world over to combat it

Covid is an invisible killer.
And unless it starts killing off a large portion of younger otherwise healthy people (or kids)
There’s not gonna be a whole lot of motivation to eradicate it worldwide
Or even for the USA to get their own population vaccinated to 70%+ Herd Immunity
Agree we won't eliminate it. Especially it's so easy to infect others. Even Canada eliminates it, we just need one traveller with covid to Canada and we will see case increases

The goal should focus on death reductions. As far as we have vaccines, then it will be flu alike(eg no lockdown for flu, people still die due to flu but with much less death rate)
Deal Fanatic
Dec 12, 2009
5561 posts
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Toronto
PointsHubby wrote:
If the USA never gets to herd immunity ... they will forever be a source of transmission onto us ... even if we restrict their presence here (vaccine passport required for foreigners visiting Canada) ... a large # of Cdns will always visit the USA ... and in turn some will bring the latest virus home.
...
Or even for the USA to get their own population vaccinated to 70%+ Herd Immunity
They have to be getting pretty close to the 70+% for herd immunity. A lot of States have > 50% vaccinated , some > 60% especially those that touch a border or NY <on edit - 1st vax>. They are continuing with slow and steady progress as the vaccination charts have not flat lined yet.
https://usafacts.org/visualizations/cov ... er-states/
Add to that the > 10% of the population that are confirmed cases.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
And likely more as their health care system is fee based.
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Aug 29, 2012
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ROYinTO wrote: They have to be getting pretty close to the 70+% for herd immunity. A lot of States have > 50% vaccinated, some > 60% especially those that touch a border or NY. They are continuing with slow and steady progress as the vaccination charts have not flat lined yet.
https://usafacts.org/visualizations/cov ... er-states/
Add to that the > 10% of the population that are confirmed cases.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
And likely more as their health care system is fee based.
The USA situation is really not as dramatic as you could think because although a lot of Republican leaning states and areas or minority heavy ones have more vaccine hesitancy, those same areas have also had greater community transmission.

Texas and Florida are two Republican states that have lifted all remaining restrictions for more than two months. Joe Biden called such a move highly irresponsible.

And yet, the calamity that was anticipated by many is still not happening.

Yesterday, Texas had 5900 new cases, a rate of 20/100 000.

Florida had 3406 new cases, a rate of 15.52/100 000.

Per comparison, let's take other Canadian provinces:

Quebec today has 5.16/100,000
Ontario (a few days ago) had 13.34/100,000
Manitoba had 27.62/100,000
Alberta had 13.84/100.000
B. C. had 9.03/100.000

So really, continued lockdowns in the last few months as more and more people were vaccinated have proven to be a complete and utter catastrophe. Where are the benefits?

Life has went back to normal in Texas and Florida, and in spite of significant pockets of vaccine hesitant population, their cases rates are very comparable to us!

What a joke!
Deal Expert
Feb 29, 2008
29096 posts
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Montreal
Poutinesauce wrote: The USA situation is really not as dramatic as you could think because although a lot of Republican leaning states and areas or minority heavy ones have more vaccine hesitancy, those same areas have also had greater community transmission.
What saves them is population density. Republican areas are more rural and lower density states.

In states like Georgia, coverage in dense urban areas like Atlanta is pretty good, as they tend to be more affluent democratic areas.

https://experience.arcgis.com/experienc ... 4cb8948a9c

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