Parenting & Family

Covid Vaccine for Under 5

  • Last Updated:
  • Jul 5th, 2022 2:20 pm
[OP]
Deal Addict
Aug 26, 2004
2621 posts
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Toronto

Covid Vaccine for Under 5

Searched for a similar thread but all I could find was the under 12. This thread is for under 5 and intended for anyone to share any updates for Canada. The US is set to approve as early as a week or two but no word on Canada. Anyone signed up anywhere in the US such as in Buffalo to get the shot? So far was not able to find any registration sites but I'm sure they will go up after the approval is announced.

https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/news/pediat ... ml?src=rss
Compared with adults, children overall are at lower risk of severe disease, hospitalization or death from COVID-19. However, lower risk isn’t the same as zero risk, and there is a long history of vaccinating kids against diseases that are usually mild but have the potential to cause devastating illness.
25 replies
Deal Addict
Jul 21, 2004
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Usually Health Canada lags behind FDA on Covid vax approval about 1-2 months. However, it also depends if the manufacturer files an emergency authorization to the country governing body. I haven’t read either Pfizer nor Moderna had filed in Canada yet.

Moderna just filed recently usually takes about 3-4 weeks for FDA for emergency authorization based on the past 2 years on the vaccine
Deal Expert
Aug 2, 2001
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koft wrote: Usually Health Canada lags behind FDA on Covid vax approval about 1-2 months. However, it also depends if the manufacturer files an emergency authorization to the country governing body. I haven’t read either Pfizer nor Moderna had filed in Canada yet.

Moderna just filed recently usually takes about 3-4 weeks for FDA for emergency authorization based on the past 2 years on the vaccine
Moderna has filed in Canada.
https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coronavir ... -1.5881844

Pfizer may have been submitted long ago, at least in the US it was submitted quite some time ago and then they needed to submit more data for the third dose:
https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/pfizer-v ... -1.6463129

Their vaccine is a little tougher to follow, in places like the US it was submitted earlier than Moderna but had the third dose requirement. So I'm not sure if their quote is in relation to them filing and not wanting to discuss, or them not filing and not wanting to discuss.
[OP]
Deal Addict
Aug 26, 2004
2621 posts
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Toronto
May be just my perspective but just like with how seniors were neglected early on in the pandemic, seems like children are now too. Not sure what's taking so long.
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Jan 2, 2015
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CDNPatriot wrote: May be just my perspective but just like with how seniors were neglected early on in the pandemic, seems like children are now too. Not sure what's taking so long.
Not sure it's about neglect. The standard of care and caution is MUCH higher for kids. No one wants to rush something not quite tested on a little one where there are many more years of effects compared to an adult. Also, it is much less urgent to get children vaccinates as severe impacts on children are extremely low. The point of getting everyone vaccinated, was two part, reducing severe outcomes and reducing infection. Now with the varients, being vaccination doesn't reduce transmission very much long term.

It's still important to vaccinate all, but there is less of an urgency as vulnerable populations have their 4 dose option. I have actually waited for the 3 dose for my kids, because they both got covid just as it was available for them. I figure they would have some natural immunity for the beginning of this year, and then I will have the get their third dose in the fall as I do believe there will be another spike again.
On a 'smart' device that isn't always so smart. So please forgive the autocorrects and typos. If it bothers you, then don't read my posts, but don't waste my time correcting me. If you can get past the typos, then my posts generally have some value.
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Jun 9, 2003
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i suspect, any child in daycare or primary school has had a good chance to get covid.

(I dont know many parents that didnt get it especially if they have a child in school based on my anecdotal experience)
as such, i think the uptake for vaccines for kids will continue to be "low" and consistent with previous stats.

(I think the new focus at the moment is getting the monkeypox vaccine rollout to kids before the next school year)
Deal Guru
Dec 5, 2006
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Markham
thelefteyeguy wrote:
(I think the new focus at the moment is getting the monkeypox vaccine rollout to kids before the next school year)
I don't know why you think it's priority to rollout monkeypox vaccine to kids

"Most of the cases are currently among men who said they had had sexual contact with other men, "

https://beta.cp24.com/news/2022/6/10/1_5942049.html
Deal Addict
Jul 24, 2019
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Canada
CDNPatriot wrote: May be just my perspective but just like with how seniors were neglected early on in the pandemic, seems like children are now too. Not sure what's taking so long.
Seniors over 80 were one of the most important groups and first in line when COVID vaccines became available.

The COVID vaccines for children will demonstrate safety and efficacy against the variants in their clinical trial data. This was more difficult for the manufacturers to achieve.
The COVID vaccines for children will demonstrate less side effects such as myocarditis (heart problem that Moderna had in males age 19-25).

Children age 6 months of age will be immunized. There is a difference in the immune system of a 6 month old versus a 4 or 5 year old, so the clinical trials had to take that into account too,

Pfizer may have 3 immunizations and Moderna may have 2 immunizations for children under 5.

Both manufacturers will recommend that there is a booster dose for children too.
Deal Expert
Aug 2, 2001
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CDNPatriot wrote: May be just my perspective but just like with how seniors were neglected early on in the pandemic, seems like children are now too. Not sure what's taking so long.
Trials were not finished until 2022 on children. To make it more complicated, Pfizer's trial had to be adapted when they found that a 2 dose regimen did not work well.

Children were last for testing, and I assume partly because they were the least at risk. As well, by testing the vaccine on all the adult researchers had a bit more confidence in it and were more testing the dosage.
Deal Fanatic
Mar 17, 2004
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Anyone thinking of driving their kids down to Buffalo to get it done?
Deal Addict
Nov 13, 2013
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Oni-kun wrote: Anyone thinking of driving their kids down to Buffalo to get it done?
Why rush?
Deal Fanatic
Mar 17, 2004
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fogetmylogin wrote: Why rush?
One kid starting daycare late August and another Kindergarten. They've been home since 2020
Deal Addict
Nov 13, 2013
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Oni-kun wrote: One kid starting daycare late August and another Kindergarten. They've been home since 2020
The vaccines seems to now have a pretty low efficacy against Omicron and its sub variants. Theoretically we could have a new variant but a 4 year old's natural protection against all variants is very robust. A vaccinated 15 year old for example is more vulnerable by a large margin than unvaccinated 4 year old. A 40 year old it is something like 100X. They are at such low risk it is like a car seat in an airline vs on your lap. Of course vaccinated is safer but it's several times less deadly than the regular flu for the 0-4 cohort. I don't know what Canadian numbers are and they are certainly lower but 71% of 0-4 year olds in US have anti bodies and this might be an undercount. Something like 12 million cases and 400 deaths and of course the vast majority of these were in very ill children.
Deal Expert
Aug 2, 2001
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fogetmylogin wrote: The vaccines seems to now have a pretty low efficacy against Omicron and its sub variants. Theoretically we could have a new variant but a 4 year old's natural protection against all variants is very robust. A vaccinated 15 year old for example is more vulnerable by a large margin than unvaccinated 4 year old. A 40 year old it is something like 100X. They are at such low risk it is like a car seat in an airline vs on your lap. Of course vaccinated is safer but it's several times less deadly than the regular flu for the 0-4 cohort. I don't know what Canadian numbers are and they are certainly lower but 71% of 0-4 year olds in US have anti bodies and this might be an undercount. Something like 12 million cases and 400 deaths and of course the vast majority of these were in very ill children.
While the vaccines are not as strong against symptomatic Omicron (51% and 37% against symptomatic Omicron), they are very strong against severe outcomes from Omicron. This is the big reason to vaccinate your children against Omicron, you help mitigate the risk of your child needing to be hospitalized because of Omicron. This is all without the booster dose that is being tested now.

If we can help prevent hospital visits by vaccinating our 6mo - 5yr children, we can have those hospital spaces freed up for children who need them for more important reason (other than choosing not to be vaccinated).

In the UK, only 54.9% of ages 4-7 had antibodies:
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulation ... %20England

The curve upwards is quite amazing to see. They didn't post the 0-4 in the article, but it's likely to be at or lower than 54.9%
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Nov 13, 2013
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TrevorK wrote: While the vaccines are not as strong against symptomatic Omicron (51% and 37% against symptomatic Omicron), they are very strong against severe outcomes from Omicron. This is the big reason to vaccinate your children against Omicron, you help mitigate the risk of your child needing to be hospitalized because of Omicron. This is all without the booster dose that is being tested now.

If we can help prevent hospital visits by vaccinating our 6mo - 5yr children, we can have those hospital spaces freed up for children who need them for more important reason (other than choosing not to be vaccinated).

In the UK, only 54.9% of ages 4-7 had antibodies:
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulation ... %20England

The curve upwards is quite amazing to see. They didn't post the 0-4 in the article, but it's likely to be at or lower than 54.9%
As I said and statistics make very clear they chances of hospitizaltion in this age group are very very low. Now yes any beds free is probably a good thing and frankly if we insist on polio vaccines we should insist on this. I am just saying rushing or paranoia isn't warranted. Children may be so immune they don't even get antibodies while they might be less exposed in UK than slightly older kids their immune systems are also so efficient they might not get the antibody response. All the daycare age children I have seen positive barely even notice whereas their vaccinated parents mostly get knocked on their ass. Which is also what statistics show. Getting your third and soon fourth dose is more important than a four year old getting their two jabs. We were busy arguing with truckers but Europe required the third doses and then quickly eliminated all mandates. Both good decisions.
Member
Sep 27, 2021
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TrevorK wrote: While the vaccines are not as strong against symptomatic Omicron (51% and 37% against symptomatic Omicron), they are very strong against severe outcomes from Omicron. This is the big reason to vaccinate your children against Omicron, you help mitigate the risk of your child needing to be hospitalized because of Omicron. This is all without the booster dose that is being tested now.

If we can help prevent hospital visits by vaccinating our 6mo - 5yr children, we can have those hospital spaces freed up for children who need them for more important reason (other than choosing not to be vaccinated).

In the UK, only 54.9% of ages 4-7 had antibodies:
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulation ... %20England

The curve upwards is quite amazing to see. They didn't post the 0-4 in the article, but it's likely to be at or lower than 54.9%
Denmark said they regret the decision of administering covid vaccines to the 5 year olds. Because there was no advantage.

The kids below 5 years has no reason to take the vaccine. Pfizer couldn't prove that the vaccines protects against covid. The research was inconclusive. Since they couldn't prove significant efficacy against covid infection they asked for permission to do trial on surrogate end points. Out of 4526 kids under trial, 3 with vaccine got covid and 7 without vaccine got covid. That is such a low number to reach into any conclusion scientifically. Also note, there were more overall hospitalization in the vaccine group (6 out of 7). 1 in 2650 kids 12-17 years had myocarditis. Kids below 5 years study is done in a very small group so it is nearly impossible to observe rates of myocarditis.
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Aug 2, 2001
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JimJas wrote: Denmark said they regret the decision of administering covid vaccines to the 5 year olds. Because there was no advantage.
Do you have a link?
The kids below 5 years has no reason to take the vaccine. Pfizer couldn't prove that the vaccines protects against covid. The research was inconclusive. Since they couldn't prove significant efficacy against covid infection they asked for permission to do trial on surrogate end points. Out of 4526 kids under trial, 3 with vaccine got covid and 7 without vaccine got covid. That is such a low number to reach into any conclusion scientifically. Also note, there were more overall hospitalization in the vaccine group (6 out of 7). 1 in 2650 kids 12-17 years had myocarditis. Kids below 5 years study is done in a very small group so it is nearly impossible to observe rates of myocarditis.
Kids under 5 have many reasons to take the vaccine. The three dose series by Pfizer is extremely effective against symptomatic COVID (and of course against severe outcomes), even against Omicron. Not only will it help these children, but it will also help those around them.

This is a good presentation to read:
https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/acip/meeti ... ra-508.pdf

You will notice that while the 6mo - 4 yr group does have a much lower rate of death compared to other groups, it is the 4th (under 1 year) and 5th (1yr to 4yr) leading cause of death. The presentation also goes through a lot of other factors when it comes to COVID and vaccinations.

The CDC makes many strong points as to the positives of vaccinating your children. In fact, there seem to be very little negatives to doing so.
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Mar 21, 2013
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Canada
"Kids under 5 have no reason to take the vaccine."

Sigh. Here are a few reasons for you:

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