Shopping Discussion

Credit card dispute process question

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[OP]
Deal Addict
Nov 12, 2006
2994 posts
2182 upvotes
London

Credit card dispute process question

I have a question, and curious of other's experiences with credit card chargebacks.
There seems to be lot's of success stories on this forum regarding chargebacks, but my (first) experience is far from that.
How are people successful?

Sorry, the story is long, but I'll be as brief as possible.
I'm mostly curious if anyone has experienced the ridiculous requirements highlighted near the bottom.

I made an online purchase from a major industrial supplier.
The package arrived, however inside the box is a significantly different product.
This isn't a different model, etc.
It's like ordering a shirt, and receiving a toaster.
All paperwork, etc. refers to the proper item.
The proper item is even too large to physically fit inside the received box.
I can document all that with photos of labels, etc.

I promptly contacted the seller.
They don't seem to dispute any of the above.
After a few emails, they indicate they cannot ship the proper item, and I won't be receiving it.
I'm told I will be refunded upon return of the incorrect item (they will pay shipping).
This was their error, and there seems no dispute about that.
All along though they seemed more interested in return of the incorrect item, than getting their customer what was ordered.

I'm miffed by that attitude.
As far as I'm concerned, they have not provided what I have paid for.
My refund should not be conditional upon return of their mistake first.
I do intend to return it though, after I receive my refund. I'm not trying to scam here.
They have screwed this up so much so far, that I distrust the reverse and on principle they should correct their mistake first.
Many companies would profusely apologize, and attempt to get my paid for product to me.

Now the chargeback:
I initiated a chargeback, for failure to provide a product I have been charged for.
I'm quite disappointed with Mastercard.
My 2 options according to them are,

1. Return the product first, and cave to the seller's method.
2. Otherwise, seek out a retailer that sells the correct item, and have them provide on their letterhead a certification that what I did receive is not what I ordered. (in my example, certify that a toaster is not a shirt)
This is a ridiculous requirement.
What retailer is going to spend their time and money, for a non-customer, to do that?
I can provide thorough documentation via photos, invoices, labels, etc. but apparently that is not acceptable.
The box (with attached shipping label) it came in isn't even big enough for the correct item.
Has anybody experienced this with the chargeback process?

As far as I'm concerned, the chargeback system is quite useless.
64 replies
Deal Expert
User avatar
Jan 9, 2011
17132 posts
23682 upvotes
Vancouver
Return the product to the seller at the seller's expense, wait for the refund that they promised. If you still don't get a refund after all of that, THEN initiate the chargeback. Not now.
Deal Addict
Dec 22, 2007
1548 posts
1152 upvotes
Mississauga
arisk wrote: I have a question, and curious of other's experiences with credit card chargebacks.
There seems to be lot's of success stories on this forum regarding chargebacks, but my (first) experience is far from that.
How are people successful?

Sorry, the story is long, but I'll be as brief as possible.
I'm mostly curious if anyone has experienced the ridiculous requirements highlighted near the bottom.

I made an online purchase from a major industrial supplier.
The package arrived, however inside the box is a significantly different product.
This isn't a different model, etc.
It's like ordering a shirt, and receiving a toaster.
All paperwork, etc. refers to the proper item.
The proper item is even too large to physically fit inside the received box.
I can document all that with photos of labels, etc.

I promptly contacted the seller.
They don't seem to dispute any of the above.
After a few emails, they indicate they cannot ship the proper item, and I won't be receiving it.
I'm told I will be refunded upon return of the incorrect item (they will pay shipping).
This was their error, and there seems no dispute about that.
All along though they seemed more interested in return of the incorrect item, than getting their customer what was ordered.

I'm miffed by that attitude.
As far as I'm concerned, they have not provided what I have paid for.
My refund should not be conditional upon return of their mistake first.
I do intend to return it though, after I receive my refund. I'm not trying to scam here.
They have screwed this up so much so far, that I distrust the reverse and on principle they should correct their mistake first.
Many companies would profusely apologize, and attempt to get my paid for product to me.

Now the chargeback:
I initiated a chargeback, for failure to provide a product I have been charged for.
I'm quite disappointed with Mastercard.
My 2 options according to them are,

1. Return the product first, and cave to the seller's method.
2. Otherwise, seek out a retailer that sells the correct item, and have them provide on their letterhead a certification that what I did receive is not what I ordered. (in my example, certify that a toaster is not a shirt)
This is a ridiculous requirement.
What retailer is going to spend their time and money, for a non-customer, to do that?
I can provide thorough documentation via photos, invoices, labels, etc. but apparently that is not acceptable.
The box (with attached shipping label) it came in isn't even big enough for the correct item.
Has anybody experienced this with the chargeback process?

As far as I'm concerned, the chargeback system is quite useless.
now think about it if your the retailer. give a customer like you a refund and hope they get off their ass to return the product.

the chargeback regulations are pretty clear and you can find them online.

do as kiraly said and you'll be fine just keep a copy of the tracking that the item was shipped back for backup
[OP]
Deal Addict
Nov 12, 2006
2994 posts
2182 upvotes
London
Kiraly wrote: Return the product to the seller at the seller's expense, wait for the refund that they promised. If you still don't get a refund after all of that, THEN initiate the chargeback. Not now.
They took my money, and have no intention of delivering the product.
DeletedMemories wrote: now think about it if your the retailer. give a customer like you a refund and hope they get off their ass to return the product.
Really?
"A customer like me"?
You mean one that made an honest purchase, didn't get the product, and wants their money back?
Why is it right for me as the customer, to wait for them to get off their ass and refund me?
This was not my error.
"now think about it if your the retailer customer"
So far, my promise to return is more valid than their promise to refund.

Most of my post was background info (because if it wasn't provided, it would inevitably be asked for)
Nobody has yet addressed my main question about the conditions (in bold).
I'd love to see the regulations you claim are available.
Anything I can find indicates a chargeback applies when products are not provided, yet payment taken.

The really odd thing too, is Mastercard stated that if I had received nothing, I wouldn't have to jump through the hoops of #2.
Then, a dispute would be initiated immediately.
Somehow my "word" that I received nothing would be more valid than photo documentation.
Deal Fanatic
Jun 13, 2010
7244 posts
9552 upvotes
GTA
Yes they messed up but of course you have to return the incorrect product before you get the refund, I wouldn't expect it to be any other way. How else are they going to ensure that you return it? MC not allowing the chargeback was the correct response. The retailer gave you a reasonable way to resolve the issue of getting a return.
Deal Addict
User avatar
Jan 3, 2014
3222 posts
2967 upvotes
Vancouver(ish)
arisk wrote: I have a question, and curious of other's experiences with credit card chargebacks.

I'm told I will be refunded upon return of the incorrect item (they will pay shipping).
You will not be successful for a chargeback until you return the item at their expense. Don't know why you would even think to the contrary. They did not send you nothing (which would have been cause for a chargeback). They sent you something. The wrong thing, but they sent you something. This makes a chargeback not possible at this point.

The vendor has offered a refund, they're offering to pay for return shipping, so what exactly is your problem here that would even require a chargeback on the card?

I'm presuming you have written confirmation that the vendor has sent the incorrect item and the details of what the received item is. Now, if this company is dodgy, I would take a video of me packaging said item, then weighing the box to show package weight. Then, at the drop-off point for shipping, I'd get confirmation of the weight and the receipt for shipping that would normally have the tracking number. That would help eliminate any potential claim that you didn't return the items in question.

Then, and only then, after you've returned the item and they have received it, if they don't refund you, you would have the basis for a chargeback.

Don't know why they're refusing to send you what you ordered. My guess is that it was a price error. Don't know why they didn't just cancel the order, but hey...here's where we're at now.

Send the item back at their expense and await your refund. Then buy somewhere else.
Proud RFD member since January 31, 2007. Feel free to add 3,034 to my post count.
Deal Addict
Oct 9, 2011
1230 posts
598 upvotes
If you can still return it, without having to pay return fee, what is there to dispute about? Mistakes happen... no one will give you refund in advance before receiving the item back (maybe except for Amazon). I know you said you have no intention of scamming them by keeping the item but if you (or any other buyer) decided not to return the item after receiving the refund, there is nothing the retailer can do about it.
Deal Expert
User avatar
Jan 9, 2011
17132 posts
23682 upvotes
Vancouver
arisk wrote: They took my money, and have no intention of delivering the product.
Yes, and they offered you a full refund, shipping at their expense, for their mistake. Nothing wrong here. You have no grounds for a chargeback unless you still don’t get the refund after the item is returned.
Sr. Member
Jan 17, 2013
776 posts
374 upvotes
arisk wrote: They took my money, and have no intention of delivering the product.


Really?
"A customer like me"?
You mean one that made an honest purchase, didn't get the product, and wants their money back?
Why is it right for me as the customer, to wait for them to get off their ass and refund me?
This was not my error.
"now think about it if your the retailer customer"
So far, my promise to return is more valid than their promise to refund.

Most of my post was background info (because if it wasn't provided, it would inevitably be asked for)
Nobody has yet addressed my main question about the conditions (in bold).
I'd love to see the regulations you claim are available.
Anything I can find indicates a chargeback applies when products are not provided, yet payment taken.

The really odd thing too, is Mastercard stated that if I had received nothing, I wouldn't have to jump through the hoops of #2.
Then, a dispute would be initiated immediately.
Somehow my "word" that I received nothing would be more valid than photo documentation.
You are holding on to something that don't belong to you and you expect to be refunded? That's how the credit card/bank sees it and that's why you are not getting a charge back. Charge back is for something you did not receive or service that was not rendered. In this case, you did receive something from the seller and so charge back is not applicable in your case, until you return the item to the seller.
Deal Fanatic
Feb 4, 2010
6906 posts
6686 upvotes
OP you're making this out to be a bigger problem than it really is. The solution is quite straightforward but you don't seem to want to accept it and are unnecessarily getting yourself upset for no good reason. Most merchants have the same policy (including Amazon) - in the off chance they don't refund your money you can do a charge back - but why think the worst of this merchant? Yes you didn't get what you wanted, when you wanted (that's what's really bothering you). But aside a from minor inconvenience you haven't lost anything tangible. Mistakes happen. We're human. We're imperfect. Have some compassion and forgiveness for yourself and others - it will make life much easier.
[OP]
Deal Addict
Nov 12, 2006
2994 posts
2182 upvotes
London
tew wrote: Yes they messed up but of course you have to return the incorrect product before you get the refund, I wouldn't expect it to be any other way. How else are they going to ensure that you return it? MC not allowing the chargeback was the correct response. The retailer gave you a reasonable way to resolve the issue of getting a return.
On such a consumer oriented website, I'm baffled why there is so much support for the seller (the one that made the error).
I'm not trying scam anybody, yet so many other threads have posts supporting underhanded practices.

I also provided a reasonable way to resolve the issue.
They refund my money, and then I return the product.
I trusted when they took my money, I would receive what I paid for.
That trust goes both ways, and they can trust I will return the mistake.
That is no less reasonable, and as I'm not the one that made the error, the resolution should favour me.
A similar concept applies to ambiguity in contracts, where it favours the one who did not draft it.
It discourages abuse and mistakes.

As to a further question, about why they will not provide the product now.
Initially, they were to send the proper replacement item ASAP.
It is an international company, headquartered in the US.
I purchased via their Canadian website.
A US "customer service" rep is dealing with this.
To quote them, "Since this is a Canadian order I was unable to process a replacement order."
I have no idea how a random customer can order, yet internally they can't ship a replacement.
It just speaks to the incompetence.

After that BS response, I purchased elsewhere.

There was no "price error" or anything of the like.
The website still showed stock. Same price.
Their expectation was that I just place a second order. (I did...elsewhere)
My initial expectation was that they ship the correct product ASAP, along with return shipping labels for their mistake.
That seems reasonable, and in that case I would still be trusted to return the mistake, which seems to be a big stumbling block to people responding to my post.
That should have been the end of it.
[OP]
Deal Addict
Nov 12, 2006
2994 posts
2182 upvotes
London
hierophant wrote: OP you're making this out to be a bigger problem than it really is. The solution is quite straightforward but you don't seem to want to accept it and are unnecessarily getting yourself upset for no good reason. Most merchants have the same policy (including Amazon) - in the off chance they don't refund your money you can do a charge back - but why think the worst of this merchant? Yes you didn't get what you wanted, when you wanted (that's what's really bothering you). But aside a from minor inconvenience you haven't lost anything tangible. Mistakes happen. We're human. We're imperfect. Have some compassion and forgiveness for yourself and others - it will make life much easier.
The solution is straight forward.
I outlined it in the post above.

Amazon doesn't have the same policy.
I've contacted them regarding a mistake, and been issued a refund immediately.
They simultaneously emailed me return shipping labels.

"that's what's really bothering you"
No it isn't.
Don't try to read my mind.
My big beef is that they screwed up, and don't want to accept responsibility for resolving this.
They have my money, yet all the responsibly to get it back lays with me.
There should have been an immediate apology, shipment of replacement, and return shipping label.
I got all but 3 of those.

Yes, mistakes happen.
I'm quite willing to accept that.
Those that make them should be willing to correct them.
Sr. Member
Jan 17, 2013
776 posts
374 upvotes
arisk wrote: On such a consumer oriented website, I'm baffled why there is so much support for the seller (the one that made the error).
I'm not trying scam anybody, yet so many other threads have posts supporting underhanded practices.

I also provided a reasonable way to resolve the issue.
They refund my money, and then I return the product.
I trusted when they took my money, I would receive what I paid for.
That trust goes both ways, and they can trust I will return the mistake.
That is no less reasonable, and as I'm not the one that made the error, the resolution should favour me.
A similar concept applies to ambiguity in contracts, where it favours the one who did not draft it.
It discourages abuse and mistakes.

As to a further question, about why they will not provide the product now.
Initially, they were to send the proper replacement item ASAP.
It is an international company, headquartered in the US.
I purchased via their Canadian website.
A US "customer service" rep is dealing with this.
To quote them, "Since this is a Canadian order I was unable to process a replacement order."
I have no idea how a random customer can order, yet internally they can't ship a replacement.
It just speaks to the incompetence.

After that BS response, I purchased elsewhere.

There was no "price error" or anything of the like.
The website still showed stock. Same price.
Their expectation was that I just place a second order. (I did...elsewhere)
My initial expectation was that they ship the correct product ASAP, along with return shipping labels for their mistake.
That seems reasonable, and in that case I would still be trusted to return the mistake, which seems to be a big stumbling block to people responding to my post.
That should have been the end of it.
You can argue all you want, no matter how valid your reasons are but you are not getting a refund until you return the item that does not belong to you to the seller.
Deal Fanatic
Feb 4, 2010
6906 posts
6686 upvotes
arisk wrote: The solution is straight forward.
I outlined it in the post above.

Amazon doesn't have the same policy.
I've contacted them regarding a mistake, and been issued a refund immediately.
They simultaneously emailed me return shipping labels.

"that's what's really bothering you"
No it isn't.
Don't try to read my mind.
My big beef is that they screwed up, and don't want to accept responsibility for resolving this.
They have my money, yet all the responsibly to get it back lays with me.
There should have been an immediate apology, shipment of replacement, and return shipping label.
I got all but 3 of those.

Yes, mistakes happen.
I'm quite willing to accept that.
Those that make them should be willing to correct them.
Well it's up to you if you want to continue wasting precious time and energy being mad and playing victim. Or you can accept that you can't control how others respond or that they won't respond in a manner that is to your satisfaction. Good luck to you.
Deal Fanatic
User avatar
Dec 3, 2009
6001 posts
1357 upvotes
Toronto
arisk wrote: They refund my money, and then I return the product.
I haven't heard of a single online retailer that process returns in that sequence that you suggest.
Remember to be an RFD-er and NOT a degenerate.
Deal Expert
User avatar
Jan 9, 2011
17132 posts
23682 upvotes
Vancouver
OP you are being a &$#% about it. “I insist on getting my money refunded before I even send the wrong item back. And if they don’t comply, I will file a chargeback and keep playing victim when the credit card issuer doesn’t back me up”.
There’s being a consumer on a consumer-oriented discussion forum, and then there’s being a &$#% on one.
Deal Fanatic
Feb 19, 2017
5303 posts
3773 upvotes
Vancouver
arisk wrote: They took my money, and have no intention of delivering the product.


Really?
"A customer like me"?
You mean one that made an honest purchase, didn't get the product, and wants their money back?
Why is it right for me as the customer, to wait for them to get off their ass and refund me?
This was not my error.
"now think about it if your the retailer customer"
So far, my promise to return is more valid than their promise to refund.

Most of my post was background info (because if it wasn't provided, it would inevitably be asked for)
Nobody has yet addressed my main question about the conditions (in bold).
I'd love to see the regulations you claim are available.
Anything I can find indicates a chargeback applies when products are not provided, yet payment taken.

The really odd thing too, is Mastercard stated that if I had received nothing, I wouldn't have to jump through the hoops of #2.
Then, a dispute would be initiated immediately.
Somehow my "word" that I received nothing would be more valid than photo documentation.
Except the world does not work this way and if it did, there will be a lot more businesses going out of business due to scammers. Note i'm not suggesting you are trying to scam the business but if a business issues a refund BEFORE giving you return the product, whats stopping scammers from all asking for refunds then disappearing? A business is less likely to disappear overnight than a random customer. This is why you always need to return a product first to get a refund.

The business respond is normal and really there is no issue with it. Just make sure you have proof when you drop off the item and your CC will side with you if you need to do a chargeback. Until you return it however, no one will side with you. RFD isnt a customer support site but rather its a deal hunting site. It doesn't mean we want businesses going out of business because if that happens, there will be less deals. If a business isn't wrong, why should we support the "customer" instead of the business. In this case, the business is right, you are wrong. Thats why most of the post arent supportive of you.
Deal Addict
Dec 22, 2007
1548 posts
1152 upvotes
Mississauga
arisk wrote: They took my money, and have no intention of delivering the product.


Really?
"A customer like me"?
You mean one that made an honest purchase, didn't get the product, and wants their money back?
Why is it right for me as the customer, to wait for them to get off their ass and refund me?
This was not my error.
"now think about it if your the retailer customer"
So far, my promise to return is more valid than their promise to refund.

Most of my post was background info (because if it wasn't provided, it would inevitably be asked for)
Nobody has yet addressed my main question about the conditions (in bold).
I'd love to see the regulations you claim are available.
Anything I can find indicates a chargeback applies when products are not provided, yet payment taken.

The really odd thing too, is Mastercard stated that if I had received nothing, I wouldn't have to jump through the hoops of #2.
Then, a dispute would be initiated immediately.
Somehow my "word" that I received nothing would be more valid than photo documentation.
here is a link for Mastercard visa has basically the same thing

https://www.mastercard.us/content/dam/m ... -guide.pdf

Goods or Services Were Either Not as Described or Defective
Chargeback Condition. The cardholder contacted the issuer claiming all of the following:
• The cardholder engaged in the transaction
• The cardholder contacted the merchant, or attempted to contact the merchant, to
resolve the dispute
Merchant contact is optional when the cardholder is a corporate entity with a contractual relationship with the merchant and the transaction is for an amount in excess of what is specified in the contract. In such event the chargeback may be only for the amount of the excessive charge.
• The merchant refused to adjust the price, repair or replace the goods or other things of value, or issue a credit
For disputes involving goods: The cardholder returned the goods or informed the merchant the goods were available for pickup

just read the last point..

I do hope you do return them before the chargeback period ends and you don't get your money back

all the background stuff means zero to the banks it does matter if your wedding is ruined, you failed a class as you didn't get your books, any other story for pity you tell them.
Banned
Oct 10, 2020
1037 posts
620 upvotes
This business sent out the wrong item and said the correct item is no longer available.

I would not be surprised if the refund is denied because OP returned the "wrong" item (the invoice is for the correct item?) !
Deal Fanatic
Feb 4, 2010
6906 posts
6686 upvotes
the2ndme wrote: This business sent out the wrong item and said the correct item is no longer available.

I would not be surprised if the refund is denied because OP returned the "wrong" item (the invoice is for the correct item?) !
Really? How's this even necessary? Way to make a paranoid and angry OP even more paranoid and angry. This is an example where you keep your clueless opinions to yourself as it's not helpful, necessary or true....a just ridiculous assumption.

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