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Cruise Discussion Thread

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Royal Caribbean said they planned to use employees and partners (travel agents) for the volunteers but since they'd received several thousand emails from customers offering to volunteer they set up the volunteer link although it isn't guaranteed they will use any volunteers from the public.

The reason for these trial cruises is outlined in the Framework for Condition Sailing issued by the CDC. It is lengthy and I haven't read it in detail as I have no intention of cruising anytime soon, but you can see the info on these trial cruises beginning around page 24 and all that is required for a line to get a Conditional Sailing Certificate issued to resume cruising whenever that may be. There are a lot of criteria that must be met and protocols around Covid that are listed in there:

https://www.cdc.gov/quarantine/pdf/CDC- ... 2020-p.pdf

Once the trials are done and everything else is met (whenever that is), when a Conditional Sailing Certificate is issued there are a lot of conditions and cruises won't be longer than 7 days unless CDC modifies that.

Out of all the details, a couple that stood out to me:

- during a cruise if a threshold of Covid is detected onboard (threshold level not defined), the cruise will be ended immediately and ship returned to the US port it started at. Passengers must have been advised that if this was to occur their travel home may be restricted or delayed.
- passengers must all be tested at embarkation and disembarkation. Results must be available before embarking and before passengers depart for final destination at disembarkation
- if a threshold of Covid is detected, the cruiseline must disembark and transport guests using non-commercial transportation.

The above only applies for cruises over 250 people.

A smaller cruise was able to sail as it was under 250 - SeaDream, has 53 passengers and 66 crew and is on it's first Caribbean cruise. Passengers had to have a negative test before embarking and also tested during the cruise. This cruise has now ended early due to a positive case during the cruise:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... s-seadream

Started Saturday, from Barbardos, and was to return the following Saturday. Wednesday the Covid was detected so it was cut short:

...passengers were required to have a negative PCR test to enter Barbados and underwent another test on the dock administered by the ship’s doctor.

“We all felt very safe,” she said, adding that the ship had been implementing strict hygiene protocols. “Yet somehow, Covid appears to have got on board.”
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I don't know, are ships rapid testing now? What is the test specificity/sensitivity for false positives/negatives? How are symptomatic passengers quarantined? Are there negative pressure isolation rooms? How effective is HEPA filtered flow when it's still common ventilation? Given elderly clientele, what if multiple passengers quickly deteriorate? Are ships equipped with Remdesivir, Dexamethasone, high flow oxygen machines etc and appropriate medical staff? Do cruisers venture into port countries? There's a lot of granular questions because those at risk can become long haulers or die.

Like current outbreaks, all it takes is one to spark a cluster despite precautions. For example a positive asymptomatic staff member resulted in 17 positive so far in a local nursing home, that could be cruiser zero who boards and passes screening somehow.
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I'm not sure what tests cruise lines will be using whenever they start up again (which probably won't be happening imminently).

The cruise that currently has been cut short was allowed to sail without having to adhere to the CDC order because it was under 250 passengers.

Here's a story from someone on board:

https://www.cruisecritic.com/news/5732/

And the press release from the cruise line:

https://seadream.com/pressreleases/sead ... -covid-19/

It mentions it was 'preliminary rapid Covid test' that was positive but I don't know any other details of the test.

Had to have a negative PCR test no more than 72 hours prior and a rapid test before boarding. 5 days into cruise there was another rapid test (to allow the passengers to re-enter Barbados). That's the one that came back presumptive positive.

No other details I can see on the test specifics.

Regarding quarantine and isolation there is a lot of info in the CDC documents (and they also refer to other CDC documents) but I haven't read through the details. I don't plan to cruise. Even with testing before boarding, airplane travel or exposure several days prior will still be a risk and I wouldn't want to be stuck somewhere because of it.
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sillysimms wrote: I'm not sure what tests cruise lines will be using whenever they start up again (which probably won't be happening imminently).

The cruise that currently has been cut short was allowed to sail without having to adhere to the CDC order because it was under 250 passengers.

Here's a story from someone on board:

https://www.cruisecritic.com/news/5732/

And the press release from the cruise line:

https://seadream.com/pressreleases/sead ... -covid-19/

It mentions it was 'preliminary rapid Covid test' that was positive but I don't know any other details of the test.

Had to have a negative PCR test no more than 72 hours prior and a rapid test before boarding. 5 days into cruise there was another rapid test (to allow the passengers to re-enter Barbados). That's the one that came back presumptive positive.

No other details I can see on the test specifics.

Regarding quarantine and isolation there is a lot of info in the CDC documents (and they also refer to other CDC documents) but I haven't read through the details. I don't plan to cruise. Even with testing before boarding, airplane travel or exposure several days prior will still be a risk and I wouldn't want to be stuck somewhere because of it.
Thanks for posting this. These "test" cruises are important learns and the blog post was a good "introduction" into what things might be like.
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AncasterRFD wrote: I don't know, are ships rapid testing now? What is the test specificity/sensitivity for false positives/negatives? How are symptomatic passengers quarantined? Are there negative pressure isolation rooms? How effective is HEPA filtered flow when it's still common ventilation? Given elderly clientele, what if multiple passengers quickly deteriorate? Are ships equipped with Remdesivir, Dexamethasone, high flow oxygen machines etc and appropriate medical staff? Do cruisers venture into port countries? There's a lot of granular questions because those at risk can become long haulers or die.

Like current outbreaks, all it takes is one to spark a cluster despite precautions. For example a positive asymptomatic staff member resulted in 17 positive so far in a local nursing home, that could be cruiser zero who boards and passes screening somehow.
i know/read viking are putting in labs on their ships so they can run tests on their own (and therefore also more frequently) , but these rapid tests from what i've read online is that they're not that accurate and really isn't good enough to use what some want to use them for. they're fine for an initial quick screen but should really/need to be complemented by PCR as well regardless of result from the quick test
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And...now looks like things have gotten worse with that cruise. 5 passengers have now tested positive with a possible 6th recently announced:

53 passengers and 5 confirmed cases. A 6th positive that will be confirmed overnight.

The first 5 are apparently in the same travelling party (but not the 6th). All were tested within 72 hours before boarding and again day of boarding - just shows then even with those protocols, it will not catch all cases and yet to know if others have been infected. This was small with 53 passengers so I can't imagine a larger ship.

Abbott ID Now testing machines are what they use onboard for the rapid testing.

https://thepointsguy.com/news/more-pass ... uise-ship/

The number of confirmed cases of COVID-19 on the Caribbean cruise ship in the midst of a COVID outbreak has jumped to five. In addition, there is preliminary evidence that there may be a sixth case on board.

In a shipwide announcement around 5 p.m. on Thursday, the captain of SeaDream Yacht Club’s SeaDream 1, Torbjorn Lund, said testing overnight of close contacts of the original passenger to test positive for COVID-19 had turned up a total of five confirmed cases in his traveling party.

The testing was performed by health authorities from the government of Barbados, where the ship docked late Wednesday night.

A couple of hours after that announcement, Lund made another shipwide address to say preliminary findings from rapid tests on board had uncovered a sixth possible case. The possible case needs to be confirmed with a second test that will be processed overnight.
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Rothesay wrote: Essentially, they are offering free cruises.

Volunteer of the Seas

There are too much on the line for the cruise lines to bungle these trial cruises.

Given the current situation, I think the more dangerous part of the trip is getting to the port itself rather than being on the ship itself.
FYI ... your link sucks
It’s just the Royal Caribbean Application Form

As you reactivated this thread ... you should have provided more on the situation

Here’s the full story = https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/roya ... index.html
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I was watching some vids of travellers to South Korea (Mikey Chen) and they put them thru questions, testing and then into a strict quarantine on arrival for 2 weeks.

I think cruiseliner should do similar process. Test, question and quarantine [ON BOARD THE SHIP OR AT A HOTEL] for a 1 or even 2 week period and monitor. Anyone who has symptoms can be "jettisoned" off as they are still in the port. The ship will stay in port until the quarantine period ends. [Is 2 weeks really needed if you give the good test at front and at end?]

If the passenger quarantines ON BOARD they pay for food and if at HOTEL [more interior space] they pay for food plus.
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gr8dlr wrote: I was watching some vids of travellers to South Korea (Mikey Chen) and they put them thru questions, testing and then into a strict quarantine on arrival for 2 weeks.

I think cruiseliner should do similar process. Test, question and quarantine [ON BOARD THE SHIP OR AT A HOTEL] for a 1 or even 2 week period and monitor. Anyone who has symptoms can be "jettisoned" off as they are still in the port. The ship will stay in port until the quarantine period ends. [Is 2 weeks really needed if you give the good test at front and at end?]

If the passenger quarantines ON BOARD they pay for food and if at HOTEL [more interior space] they pay for food plus.
Isn't going to happen - either by the cruise industry or the CDC - makes a cruise non-viable. One of the big things of the CDC policy is making the cruise line take on the liability and treatment costs for passengers that show positive after boarding.
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Time quarantining is a bit archaic compared to the evolution of rapid testing where we can increase the sens/spec by targeting different parts of the virus protein in one kit should there be questionable results.
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Just had a patient die in 5d, this person was healthy enough to cruise. From lethargy/fever to needing oxygen, intubation and heart failure. Swabbed on admission, positive. Outbreaks are deadly being novel especially to elderly with poor immune response. Health insurance premiums for senior cruisers/travellers must be through the roof now.
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Dec 22, 2018
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any cruises in a year( ie 2022 after vaccines becomes prevalent) with minimum deposits, have some FCC and future cruise deposits as well. I hope they implement a immunization prerequisite to board a cruise ship
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TomF62003 wrote: any cruises in a year( ie 2022 after vaccines becomes prevalent) with minimum deposits, have some FCC and future cruise deposits as well. I hope they implement a immunization prerequisite to board a cruise ship
My wife is an independent travel consultant - she just booked 3 cruises for 2022 (for people that had FCCs) but hasn't actively tried to solicit any bookings for 2021 because the constant changes of itineraries and uncertainty for travel creates more work and chaos than is worth her or her clients time and money. The cruise lines have been unrealistically optimistic in their planning and are reaping the chaos of those decisions.

Cruises are readily available for booking for 2022 and there are some good sales out there. I would hope that once COVID vaccines are generally available that it would be a requirement for cruising. I'd expect many countries will make vaccination mandatory for entry just like it is in certain places for Yellow Fever and Typhus.
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Fond memories of cruising may not be the same if we still need to mask and social distance eg; dining, theatre, beside strangers around the pool, even when the vaccine is prevalent because of varying immunity, not working in those who don't respond, mutant strains. Starting to question if it's worth it anymore.
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AncasterRFD wrote: Fond memories of cruising may not be the same if we still need to mask and social distance eg; dining, theatre, beside strangers around the pool, even when the vaccine is prevalent because of varying immunity, not working in those who don't respond, mutant strains. Starting to question if it's worth it anymore.
Masking-up in public spaces will be part of the "experience" on cruises. Whether that changes with a vaccine will be dependent on the effectiveness of the vaccine.
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I think this is a glimpse of what cruising will be like when it returns.

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https://www.royalcaribbeanblog.com/2020 ... e-standard

CDC ignores crowded airports while holding cruise ships to double standard

Gotta agree with RCL on this....how/why is the CDC only casting a bright light on Cruiseliners when they aren't doing it with any other business. Add to that Cruiseliners would not have that many cases if ports just let them dock and get ppl off. You don't see Airports saying - oh...this passenger looks sick everyone needs to stay on the plane and they can't leave.
We're all bozos on the bus until we find a way to express ourselves...

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gr8dlr wrote: https://www.royalcaribbeanblog.com/2020 ... e-standard

CDC ignores crowded airports while holding cruise ships to double standard

Gotta agree with RCL on this....how/why is the CDC only casting a bright light on Cruiseliners when they aren't doing it with any other business. Add to that Cruiseliners would not have that many cases if ports just let them dock and get ppl off. You don't see Airports saying - oh...this passenger looks sick everyone needs to stay on the plane and they can't leave.
The CDC has stated why, the cruiselines have been playing an unrealistic PR game, IMHO. And, the cruiselines using US ports must have an isolation and repatriation plan for COVID infected passengers. Dumping them at a foreign port isn't going to fly though.
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So crowding an entire plane load of ppl with everyone not much more than a few feet from each other is safe and there's no need to apply the same rules they're asking cruiseliners to abide by Isn't a contradiction?
We're all bozos on the bus until we find a way to express ourselves...

Failure is always an option...just not the preferred one!
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gr8dlr wrote: So crowding an entire plane load of ppl with everyone not much more than a few feet from each other is safe and there's no need to apply the same rules they're asking cruiseliners to abide by Isn't a contradiction?
Comparing air travel to cruise travel isn’t necessarily a fair comparison. While a lot of air travel is discretionary, I think we can agree that in the overall scheme of things air travel is an essential service vs cruising which is 100% discretionary.

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