Personal Finance

[DEAD] Ontario to roll out basic income in three cities - Hamilton, Thunder Bay and Lindsay

  • Last Updated:
  • Aug 12th, 2018 1:04 am
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Dec 8, 2010
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Firebot wrote: What does grants have to do with UBI? I am all for grants and promoting artists who may need a boost in education or a project or programs and getting that extra help. A grant application is also heavy in paperwork and gets audited and scrutinized throughout your project. Most people who apply do not get grants, and it also only applies to select artists (2103 artists is nothing, if everyone could get free money and accepted they would).

https://canadacouncil.ca/funding/grants ... ve-a-grant

Are grants seriously the example you are trying to use to argue? UBI is none of that. You just get free money, no questions asked. If you make less then 34000 reported on income tax, you get free money. Don't get stuck on the fact that the example used is an artist to make a fallacious argument. Could have use a Twitch streaming video gamer or anything else. It doesn't matter what you do, you just get free money.

Let the pianist apply for the grant and be evaluated.
IMHO one of the non-financial reasons to do UBI in the first place is this - so that people have the time and space to think further ahead than just doing a crap job. So they can see how good they are at the piano, or train to be in the olympics, or whatever.

At the moment, a combination of ignorance and cost of living keeps people locked in crappy jobs because if they were to give it up, they'd be homeless.

So you work in retail for 40 years, never having 'a chance' to discover what you are really capable of.

For sure - many people will do little to nothing. Robots will take many of those jobs because the cost of employing a person is too high (because nobody will work for $15 an hour when they have 'enough' already from UBI). But the potential is we end up with a better society, more people following their dreams, rather than being stuck in a 9-5 (or worse).

Work is good is such an old fashioned idea, and it made sense *until now* in that there was a need for humans to work growing food. Now we're past that. We don't need miners, or farmhands; we don't even need secretaries, typists, etc, etc. But we are still *even more productive* than we were when we *did* need those people.

So why not spread the wealth? Companies want consumers to make the economic cycle work. Let those driven by an occupation, or money, be driven. Let those that aren't, do what they want, and cut out the 'suffering' of spending 40 hours a week doing drudgery.
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Aug 12, 2004
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lecale wrote: Same with athletes I suppose, the entire Olympic team can get of their asses and get to work. It's outrageous that people get paid by the government to have fun doing sport.
That example is even worse...

https://nationalpost.com/sports/olympic ... ralympians

Top world level athletes representing their country on a world stage getting up to 21000$ a year for living expenses and training costs is your argument now on why we should give 34000$ for free to hippies?
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Dec 7, 2012
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Ford government vows basic-income pilot will receive ‘lengthy runway’ before cancellation
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/ ... hy-runway/
Ontario has pledged that there will be a “lengthy and compassionate runway” before the province’s basic-income pilot project comes to an end − a program on which 4,000 low-income people have come to rely.

Social Services Minister Lisa MacLeod announced last week that Premier Doug Ford’s government is cutting in half planned increases to social-assistance rates this year and had decided to cancel the basic-income pilot, despite a campaign promise to allow the three-year experiment to run its course.

On Wednesday, Ms. MacLeod dismissed concerns that the pilot project would be ending soon.

“I have been very clear since last week that the basic-income research project will wind down and details will be forthcoming, but I have been clear that there will be a lengthy and compassionate runway,” Ms. MacLeod told reporters at Queen’s Park. She said she would “provide those details in the next week or two.”
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Oct 26, 2003
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Firebot wrote: That example is even worse...

https://nationalpost.com/sports/olympic ... ralympians

Top world level athletes representing their country on a world stage getting up to 21000$ a year for living expenses and training costs is your argument now on why we should give 34000$ for free to hippies?
34k is too much, i think 12k is fine, you gotta start small on such over reaching grand program.
Deal Guru
Nov 15, 2008
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RolandCouch wrote: So now you're comparing people who are in the elite in their field to people who are simply hobbyists. Olympic athletes in Canada get peanuts by the way and being an Olympic athlete is hardly just "having fun".
Olympic athletes typically come from very privileged homes...not everybody can afford to take their kid downhill skiing every weekend from the age of 3, take the family to travel everywhere in pursuit of the sport long before financing kicks in...why reward some of the most privileged in society? That's fair?
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Feb 24, 2017
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lecale wrote:
Olympic athletes typically come from very privileged homes...not everybody can afford to take their kid downhill skiing every weekend from the age of 3, take the family to travel everywhere in pursuit of the sport long before financing kicks in...why reward some of the most privileged in society? That's fair?
I know an Olympic athlete who has to work part time to live and train the other time.

Edit: I just read the article. Don't see anything wrong. Does Canada want to earn metals? Then fun the athletes. Other countries put a lot more $ into their athletes..

They are basically senior employees earning 21k a year. If they quit this they could most likely get a higher paying job. Private coaching for another country.. etc. The juniors get 12k/year. It's a real rip off being a top athlete in Canada.
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Dec 6, 2010
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Glad to see free money coming to an end.....you got to work no matter how hard you "think" it is
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Jun 26, 2011
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lecale wrote: Olympic athletes typically come from very privileged homes...not everybody can afford to take their kid downhill skiing every weekend from the age of 3, take the family to travel everywhere in pursuit of the sport long before financing kicks in...why reward some of the most privileged in society? That's fair?
Idiotic argument where you are cherry picking something like downhill skiing. I don't care if you are from a privileged skiing background or you grew up broke and are an elite soccer player (sport that requires minimal money). If you are elite at something then it makes sense to offer some support. If you want to hand out money to every person who wants to "find themselves" then do it with your own money.
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Dec 13, 2016
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I think a better idea would be no income tax up to 20k in earnings.

In all honesty tax free income bracket in third world countries where the cost of living is lower is the same like in Canada.

I think more people would be willing to work instead of staying on dole.
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Dec 13, 2010
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ON
I've heard this could be the way of the future. Paying us to live, as robots / AI take all the jobs.
I'm glad they stopped it. It doesn't quite make sense to me as of today, but one day maybe.
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Oct 26, 2003
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thetipster wrote: I've heard this could be the way of the future. Paying us to live, as robots / AI take all the jobs.
I'm glad they stopped it. It doesn't quite make sense to me as of today, but one day maybe.
it will be the way of the future, it is only matter of time, no one knows exactly when is the right time to introduce it, i think it is best to start slow and start early.

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