Personal Finance

[DEAD] Ontario to roll out basic income in three cities - Hamilton, Thunder Bay and Lindsay

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  • Aug 12th, 2018 1:04 am
Deal Addict
Feb 26, 2008
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chopperE wrote: I'm guessing the Liberals are looking for votes in those cities in the next election...

That's pretty cynical. I would observe that I don't know very many people who earn $17k/year that actually drag their sorry asses out to the polling station on election day (but most of the people that I know who earn $100k+ understand the importance of voting). No, I'd say that there's little expectation of improving election results through this sort of program.
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Nov 19, 2004
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Chickinvic wrote: Eventually the basic income would eliminate all the other programs and should save money. I think it is a good idea all around.
That's the idea. But it will be interesting to see if it is the reality. If it truly cuts out the other social benefits and is tax neutral, then definitely worth a look. But any sort of rollout would have to be clear, otherwise you will just have people complaining about their lost social assistance.
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Mar 16, 2011
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You must be new to Ontario. Please look up previous elections with these Liberals. Start with the Gas Plant Scandal.
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Oct 26, 2003
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bewiseman wrote: I would agree with that. I would also suggest that with the First Nations, you're often dealing with people who are much more damaged than the traditionally poor person. You're also often dealing with an area where there are real employment issues, depressions, suicides etc. There is far more to this issue with the First Nations than simply providing too much funding. This is a much deeper issue that goes back several generations.
i don't believe the natives are more disadvantaged than your typical person
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Jul 14, 2008
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divx wrote: i don't believe the natives are more disadvantaged than your typical person
Having spent time on various reserves, this is incorrect. Much higher suicide rate. Rampant alcoholism (think, cannot have liquid hand sanitizers). Some reserves you almost felt it was a 3rd world nation in the heart of a first world country. I'm not a socialist by any stretch, but I would say a First Nation person is more disadvantaged than a typical person.

Now having said that, I understand not every reserve is the same. Some are quite wealthy because of what they have (successful casinos in Ontario, out west, successful wineries, etc). But that is the exception. Nor does it even mean it benefits the average person living there, but the chiefs, uhhh, yeah... ;)
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Aug 3, 2014
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kneevase wrote: That's pretty cynical. I would observe that I don't know very many people who earn $17k/year that actually drag their sorry asses out to the polling station on election day (but most of the people that I know who earn $100k+ understand the importance of voting). No, I'd say that there's little expectation of improving election results through this sort of program.
They understand the importance of voting and vote for crooks?
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Feb 26, 2008
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chopperE wrote: You must be new to Ontario. Please look up previous elections with these Liberals. Start with the Gas Plant Scandal.
Well, that's condescending.

Nope, I'm not new to Ontario and I'm completely aware of the gas plant scandal. But I am also aware that, no matter how bad the provincial government has been, they are *not* stupid. They know very well who votes and who doesn't. And, frankly poor, younger people are completely disenfranchised, and all parties know it. But that doesn't mean that a government would refuse to try to pull these folks up by their bootstraps simply because they view it as good policy (even if it's actually not good policy).
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Nov 19, 2004
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onlineharvest wrote: Having spent time on various reserves, this is incorrect. Much higher suicide rate. Rampant alcoholism (think, cannot have liquid hand sanitizers). Some reserves you almost felt it was a 3rd world nation in the heart of a first world country. I'm not a socialist by any stretch, but I would say a First Nation person is more disadvantaged than a typical person.
You could probably argue the same for most welfare cases, so I don't really see them as any more disadvantaged either. Just more visible because you can point to a group on a reserve.
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Oct 26, 2003
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onlineharvest wrote: Having spent time on various reserves, this is incorrect. Much higher suicide rate. Rampant alcoholism (think, cannot have liquid hand sanitizers). Some reserves you almost felt it was a 3rd world nation in the heart of a first world country. I'm not a socialist by any stretch, but I would say a First Nation person is more disadvantaged than a typical person.

Now having said that, I understand not every reserve is the same. Some are quite wealthy because of what they have (successful casinos in Ontario, out west, successful wineries, etc). But that is the exception. Nor does it even mean it benefits the average person living there, but the chiefs, uhhh, yeah... ;)
we have lots immigrants, and a lot of them come from 3rd world countries, who is more disadvantaged in this case?
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Jul 14, 2008
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don242 wrote: You could probably argue the same for most welfare cases, so I don't really see them as any more disadvantaged either. Just more visible because you can point to a group on a reserve.
divx wrote: we have lots immigrants, and a lot of them come from 3rd world countries, who is more disadvantaged in this case?
You guys have clearly never been to many reserves.
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Nov 15, 2008
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onlineharvest wrote: You guys have clearly never been to many reserves.
IMO at some point in history trauma and prejudice created a generation of messed up people, and because of prejudice the mess just got passed on to the next generation and the next.

The rates are a bump up for people on OW and ODSP and may get them into better housing or get them to a point where they can afford wheels, which could be very helpful to employment. It could be very helpful for people to get over the hump. I think right now for OW people they will buy you a pair of safety shoes and good luck...but they may need transport to industrial parks on a shift worker's schedule and wheels can be a job requirement.

I wonder if the scheme includes being less generous with EI in the future?
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Sep 23, 2009
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lecale wrote: The rates are a bump up for people on OW and ODSP and may get them into better housing or get them to a point where they can afford wheels, which could be very helpful to employment. It could be very helpful for people to get over the hump. I think right now for OW people they will buy you a pair of safety shoes and good luck...but they may need transport to industrial parks on a shift worker's schedule and wheels can be a job requirement.
The "Free Money" will just make things like housing and wheels more expensive.

The cost of housing and wheels will not simply stagnate when money is given away for nothing.

It's like those people that are arguing for $15 minimum wage. If it comes, food, shelter and transportation will not remain the same cost.

It would be nice if they did stay the same cost, but they won't. And if the government forced final prices to remain stagnant, than providers will simply stop producing or servicing themselves.

In addition, higher minimum wages would push more jobs to automation. There comes a point when employing a group of people is more expensive than the robotics to replace them.
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Nov 19, 2004
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onlineharvest wrote: You guys have clearly never been to many reserves.
Have you seen kids growing up in homes that are supported by welfare where the parent(s) drink their money away and fail to even feed their children? Kids that show up hungry everyday at school? Kids subjected to alcoholism and drugs? How are these kids any more advantaged than someone growing up on a reserve?

The reserves are just more obvious, while those not on a reserve have the same disadvantages but are hidden in plain sight.
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Oct 19, 2016
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Toronto
Basic income sounds like the start of Communism. First they control home prices and rent. Then they control your income and then soon the Government doesnt work for the people. We the people become the Governments b1tch. eg - North Korea people

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