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[OP]
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Jul 16, 2020
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Last edited by JTisme on Aug 31st, 2020 11:41 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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Isn't your insurance paying for it?
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Feb 26, 2019
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Goes without saying that you should get a few more quotes, but I doubt you’ll get the work completed for much less than that. You might find cheaper up front quotes, but the cheapest price will likely be bumped up by scope changes. The insulation and roofing look a little high to me. But some of the other items (Kitchen and drywall/painting) look too low, so maybe it will balance out.

You should also factor in a contingency of 10-15%. You will use it either due to unforeseen problems or unanticipated desires to upgrade certain aspects of the project (this is normal and unavoidable, in my experience).

It looks like the structural repairs are extensive, given that there is a large budget for that work.

Any pictures?
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Aug 29, 2011
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Where on Ontario? Anywhere around the GTHA and prices will be high just because that’s how the market is.
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Hopefully no one was injured in your fire. It's going to be very hard to advise on what the quote should be unless we know exactly what the 'new' renovations will be from what it was.

Hopefully that makes sense. I did 1000sqft reno, but not to that extreme with structural repairs. I'd estimate about $120-150k per floor with basic material.
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Spray foam jumps out to me as a bit high. I did my house last year in Toronto for 15k which was larger than yours.
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$290k seems ridiculously expensive for 2300sqft

In particular, "Construction Frame Repair" for $55,000 seems laughable for what might amount to $5,000 in lumber.

$18k for an electrical upgrade? LOL
$15k to run some new pex? LOL
$10k for some vinyl planks in the basement? LOL

I don't see any siding. Was that not damaged?
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Jun 26, 2019
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RCGA wrote: $290k seems ridiculously expensive for 2300sqft

In particular, "Construction Frame Repair" for $55,000 seems laughable for what might amount to $5,000 in lumber.

$18k for an electrical upgrade? LOL
$15k to run some new pex? LOL
$10k for some vinyl planks in the basement? LOL

I don't see any siding. Was that not damaged?
I'm torn on this one, I think the main thing is we don't know the scope of the damage, so I'm just assuming its a full rebuild.

It's interesting, but looking at this, as you stated, some items do seem on the high side for sure. All this said though, say if you throw $40k into the basement, you have $250k for a 1200sqft main floor reno. If this is basically the equivalent a building a new house (ie everything has to be replaced), @ $210/sqft this seems like a reasonable price for a smaller footprint house.

This said, a lot depends on the scope of work. This said, as the OP states it was just a section of joists and sounds like smoke damage throughout the rest of the house, the $55k for framing seems very excessive. It could also be that your contractor is randomly hiding GC fees in some of these items, which makes it about as clear as mud.

Anyways, like all things, get a few more quotes. How much is insurance going to cover?
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SubjectivelyObjective wrote: I'm torn on this one, I think the main thing is we don't know the scope of the damage, so I'm just assuming its a full rebuild.

It's interesting, but looking at this, as you stated, some items do seem on the high side for sure. All this said though, say if you throw $40k into the basement, you have $250k for a 1200sqft main floor reno. If this is basically the equivalent a building a new house (ie everything has to be replaced), @ $210/sqft this seems like a reasonable price for a smaller footprint house.

This said, a lot depends on the scope of work. This said, as the OP states it was just a section of joists and sounds like smoke damage throughout the rest of the house, the $55k for framing seems very excessive. It could also be that your contractor is randomly hiding GC fees in some of these items, which makes it about as clear as mud.

Anyways, like all things, get a few more quotes. How much is insurance going to cover?
I totally agree. As I said, I reno'd my ~1000sqft and did a lot of DYI, ran me about $60,000/floor. My main floor flooring alone was $7500, so $10,000 for vinyl flooring in the basement could very well be reasonable at $6.50/sqft plus installation and since OP is saying it's $10,000 for the main entire floor, that's fairly cheapish, depending on product. Electrical upgrade could very well be moving from 100 to 200 amp service and that alone without touching the city side is about $3000-5000 of the of the laughable $18000.

It's all relative to the OP/location and how OP decides to finish/upgrade, etc... Which is a we don't know. There is absolutely nothing wrong for the quote, we just don't know where all the details are and at $300,000 for a full rebuild, yep, that's probably around the correct costing. I would just suspect that the OP knows after spending $300,000, this is completely turn key and above average fixtures, appliances, etc...
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SubjectivelyObjective wrote: I'm torn on this one, I think the main thing is we don't know the scope of the damage, so I'm just assuming its a full rebuild.

It's interesting, but looking at this, as you stated, some items do seem on the high side for sure. All this said though, say if you throw $40k into the basement, you have $250k for a 1200sqft main floor reno. If this is basically the equivalent a building a new house (ie everything has to be replaced), @ $210/sqft this seems like a reasonable price for a smaller footprint house.

This said, a lot depends on the scope of work. This said, as the OP states it was just a section of joists and sounds like smoke damage throughout the rest of the house, the $55k for framing seems very excessive. It could also be that your contractor is randomly hiding GC fees in some of these items, which makes it about as clear as mud.

Anyways, like all things, get a few more quotes. How much is insurance going to cover?
My guess is that, because there's no residing quote, the OPs fire was minor. He wants to take the lump sum payment from insurance and apply that to a massive reno.

Who did the gut job and clean up work?
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Mar 25, 2002
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R20 on main floor and second floor
Much higher in the attic as well.

Check GNI as well for insulation
[OP]
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Jul 16, 2020
3 posts
koffey wrote: I totally agree. As I said, I reno'd my ~1000sqft and did a lot of DYI, ran me about $60,000/floor. My main floor flooring alone was $7500, so $10,000 for vinyl flooring in the basement could very well be reasonable at $6.50/sqft plus installation and since OP is saying it's $10,000 for the main entire floor, that's fairly cheapish, depending on product. Electrical upgrade could very well be moving from 100 to 200 amp service and that alone without touching the city side is about $3000-5000 of the of the laughable $18000.

It's all relative to the OP/location and how OP decides to finish/upgrade, etc... Which is a we don't know. There is absolutely nothing wrong for the quote, we just don't know where all the details are and at $300,000 for a full rebuild, yep, that's probably around the correct costing. I would just suspect that the OP knows after spending $300,000, this is completely turn key and above average fixtures, appliances, etc...
Yep, you are right, we are upgrading the electricity from 100 to 200amp. So the 18k for electricity would make sense then?
We aren't really looking for high-end finishes, just the standard renovation to return the house back to where it was previously.
$300000 is a lot of money and we want to make sure that we are not overshooting ourselves...
We thought the 2 kitchens for $45000 is a bit much. Do you think we can go lower on this?
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@koffey Is vinyl or laminate flooring really $6.50/sqft for material these days? The last time I had to look at prices for that was 10 years ago, and I paid $4.50/sqft installed for premium laminate.

The only thing I really have recent experience with is the roof. We just had our roof done on our 1200 sqft bungalow in Ottawa last month. Estimates ranged from $6500 - $9500 +HST, depending on products used. We paid ~$8100 +HST for a full shingle removal and replacement, all new gooseneck and exhaust vents, new flashing at the chimney and aluminum clad electrical mast, new drip edge, 6' of ice/water barrier, synthetic underlay, with a higher end line of 50 year architectural shingles that include a transferable 25 year workmanship and 50 year product warranty. Plywood roof decking replacement was estimated at $75-$95 +HST per sheet. None of ours needed replacement over and above where they replaced the exhaust vents (included in the price), but a full replacement of the roof deck would have run us several thousand more.

So if that estimate is roof only, it comes across to me as pretty high even if it includes a full roof deck replacement.

But does it also include the aluminum work (soffit, fascia, gutters)?

We're having that work done next week. Rebuild of the wood fascia and new aluminum soffit, fascia, and gutters. Estimates for that ranged from $6k - $9k +HST. We're paying ~$6.6k +tax.

Our total for roof, soffit, fascia, gutters is ~$14.5k +tax. So if the roof work includes all the aluminum, it's probably spot on...
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JTisme wrote: Yep, you are right, we are upgrading the electricity from 100 to 200amp. So the 18k for electricity would make sense then?
We aren't really looking for high-end finishes, just the standard renovation to return the house back to where it was previously.
$300000 is a lot of money and we want to make sure that we are not overshooting ourselves...
We thought the 2 kitchens for $45000 is a bit much. Do you think we can go lower on this?
Yes, I kinda figured that's what you were doing and to be honest, unless you have a full shop in a garage, all your appliances are electric and you have plans for a hot tub and outdoor kitchen, you don't need 200 amp service. I didn't do that upgrade as the costs were up there. You should be able to get more high end allowances included in your scope of work for the amount that you are paying. Kitchens are sketchy because of materials used and appliances. People love xyz look and don't want to pay. Yes you can get 2 kitchens under $45,000.

Key note in that comment is allowances. Find out item by item on your SOW the total allowances. That will give you a better idea of how much you are paying for the labour and materials.
Dynatos wrote: @koffey Is vinyl or laminate flooring really $6.50/sqft for material these days? The last time I had to look at prices for that was 10 years ago, and I paid $4.50/sqft installed for premium laminate.

The only thing I really have recent experience with is the roof. We just had our roof done on our 1200 sqft bungalow in Ottawa last month. Estimates ranged from $6500 - $9500 +HST, depending on products used. We paid ~$8100 +HST for a full shingle removal and replacement, all new gooseneck and exhaust vents, new flashing at the chimney and aluminum clad electrical mast, new drip edge, 6' of ice/water barrier, synthetic underlay, with a higher end line of 50 year architectural shingles that include a transferable 25 year workmanship and 50 year product warranty. Plywood roof decking replacement was estimated at $75-$95 +HST per sheet. None of ours needed replacement over and above where they replaced the exhaust vents (included in the price), but a full replacement of the roof deck would have run us several thousand more.

So if that estimate is roof only, it comes across to me as pretty high even if it includes a full roof deck replacement.

But does it also include the aluminum work (soffit, fascia, gutters)?

We're having that work done next week. Rebuild of the wood fascia and new aluminum soffit, fascia, and gutters. Estimates for that ranged from $6k - $9k +HST. We're paying ~$6.6k +tax.

Our total for roof, soffit, fascia, gutters is ~$14.5k +tax. So if the roof work includes all the aluminum, it's probably spot on...
It's luxury vinyl these days and it's not cheap. It's just as expensive at oversized engineered planks and more in some cases. It's all relative to the product.

I'm not sure what you are asking in your additional post.
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koffey wrote: I'm not sure what you are asking in your additional post.
Is this directed at me?

The remainder of my post was in response to the OP's general question on estimates, specifically in relation to roofing work.
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Dynatos wrote: Is this directed at me?

The remainder of my post was in response to the OP's general question on estimates, specifically in relation to roofing work.
Sorry, missed that. I got lost somewhere.
JTisme wrote: We are actually thinking ahead and upgrade it to 200amp since the basement unit, upon completion, would be a rental one. Also, we might install an electric charging station, in case we need it in the future. The electricity upgrade and plumbing upgrade to 3/4 inch one are 2 of our must-haves. We have had bad experiences with the low water pressure and tripped electric circuit breaker so I guess it is a good time to change.
You still don't need 200 amp service for a basement apt unless you're heating the place with electric baseboards which I'll say is a no no. A charging station can be done off 100 amp but I get what you are saying.

If you are doing the 3/4 water line upgrade, spend the extra $500 and go for the full inch. It will make a world of difference and it's attractive for resale IMO. And if you decide to blow the top off and build a second story, you'll revisit this thread and thank me for telling you to do this.
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I'd definitely be getting more quotes. The frame repair, basement wall repair, electrical all pop out.

I would also ask them to provide a split between labour and material. The basement vinyl planks could be worth $9500, if the material is $6.50 per sq ft. But what if they use cheap $1.50 vinyl planks in the basement?

Engineers drawing, $15,000 WOW....absolute horseshit man. I paid $1800 for my basement apartment, Upstairs, maybe $4-5k max.
JTisme wrote: Hi everyone,
I have a bungalow 1200 sq ft in Ontario. There was a fire and a section of the house's joist is burned. The house has been fully gutted to the stud and now, we are in the process of restoring the house to the previous condition, making some interior changes and make our basement a legal unit - total main floor and basement would be around 2300 sq ft. We received a detailed quote from one of the contractors. Can someone tell me whether the quote is reasonable? Any idea on how much we should budget for this project with this scope of work? Any advice on what we should take note of?
1. Construction Frame Repair $55,000
2. Basement wall repair $15,000
3. Spray foam insulation $26,500
4. Electrical repair & upgrade $18,000
5. Heat, vent, air conditioning, & water tank $16,000
6. Plumbing $15,000
7. Windows & patio door $19,500
8. New roof $15,000
9 Interior drywall ( legal basement fire grade drywall), painting $24,000
10. Main floor new subfloor & engineering hardwood $10,000
11. Basement floor laminate or vinyl flanks $9,500
12. New stair $5,500
13. Four 3 PC's bathroom $36,000
14. Main floor kitchen & basement kitchen $45,000
15. Others ( Dumpster, waste, cleaning service & etc) $5,500.
16. Engineering drawing and building permit fee between $10000-15000
Total would be around $290000 (included HST)
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JTisme wrote: 7. Windows & patio door $19,500
I should also note that we had all of our windows and doors replaced in a 2 story townhouse in Calgary in 2016. It was ~$8.5k +tax for one outside door with a phantom screen + 7 windows of varying size (one at 60"x60", three at 36"x60", two at 48x60", and one at 48"x71"). The windows alone were $7k+tax. These were all pretty low grade 2 pane slider windows as the condo corp disallowed casements on the grounds that everything needed to look the same.

Thinking of what size the windows were in our old home compared to what we have in our 1200 sqft bungalow (at least 50% more glass), $19k is probably reasonable, but perhaps a bit high, if they're 3 pane casements.
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I think all of you are missing how hard it is to renovate vs build new. Taking out joists and putting in new while the structure is still standing and the roof is still on is way harder than framing new.

Is the quote high in spots? Yes, probably. What I would say to OP is to be very careful what finishes etc you are getting for these prices. Friends of mine in Toronto had a dated custom kitchen that was ruined by a flood. Deep counters (32” I think) and deeper uppers, all real plywood, etc etc etc. Insurance offered them about $6k which would have barely covered an IKEA kitchen and they fought for, and won, replacement value which came in just south of $25k for cabinets only.

The other thing Ive learned about insurance on vehicles is that insurance seems to pay the highest costs. Broke a tail light? Go OEM for $350 when I could get a third party from Amazon for $90. Ruined your tonneau cover? $1600 when you can easily get it from a dealer for $1000.
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JTisme wrote: We just had our whole house windows done last year for around $12000, double pane, vinyl materials. Adding a back door and patio door now, I think the price is a bit higher than expected so I am getting a few more quotes soon.
Door + patio door will add over $1.5k and triple pane will increase it, so $19k starts to sound more reasonable.

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