Denied - Declared Emergency leave

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Jun 2nd, 2020 9:05 am

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May 19th, 2020 2:05 pm

paf [OP]: Sr. Member; Dec 27, 2005; 608 posts; 122 upvotes; Toronto, ON

May 19th, 2020 2:05 pm

Denied - Declared Emergency leave

Hello all,

My wife works at a hospital and I've been working from home during these times

Initially my MIL was helping with the two kids however she can't help out anymore .

We have a 6 year old and an infant of 20 month .

We are not eligible for the daycare as I'm not an essential working .

Her hospital is denying the leave stating that since I'm working from home , I should be responsible for the kids .

I want to know if can an employer deny the leave on such grounds ? We have provided them with the notice from the school . The issue is I'm on back to back calls on day for work and can't be watching the infant and it is really a safety hazard.

Also they assumed I was applying for the declared emergency leave . I know there are similar leaves like the infectious disease emergency leave

Wanted to get your input and see if anyone has similar cases

Thanks

14 replies

May 19th, 2020 5:31 pm

Bobberts: Sr. Member; May 12, 2014; 994 posts; 807 upvotes; Markham, ON

May 19th, 2020 5:31 pm

I feel your pain and don't have any helpful suggestions. I have a 6 and 7 year old so at least I can give them a tablet for all my meetings, with a 20 month old I wouldn't know what to do.

+1

May 19th, 2020 9:01 pm

dolfan1980: Deal Addict; Aug 3, 2017; 1483 posts; 1213 upvotes

May 19th, 2020 9:01 pm

paf wrote: ↑ Hello all,

My wife works at a hospital and I've been working from home during these times

Initially my MIL was helping with the two kids however she can't help out anymore .

We have a 6 year old and an infant of 20 month .

We are not eligible for the daycare as I'm not an essential working .

Her hospital is denying the leave stating that since I'm working from home , I should be responsible for the kids .

I want to know if can an employer deny the leave on such grounds ? We have provided them with the notice from the school . The issue is I'm on back to back calls on day for work and can't be watching the infant and it is really a safety hazard.

Also they assumed I was applying for the declared emergency leave . I know there are similar leaves like the infectious disease emergency leave

Wanted to get your input and see if anyone has similar cases

Thanks

Are either of you able to ask for staggered hours so that she can watch the kids while you work and vice versa? It’s hard, but unless one of you takes unpaid leave I’m not sure either employer have to grant you paid leave. If they’re denying unpaid leave and not providing any flexibility then that’s rough, but otherwise you both have to try to be as flexible as you can too.

+1

May 20th, 2020 3:52 am

paf [OP]: Sr. Member; Dec 27, 2005; 608 posts; 122 upvotes; Toronto, ON

May 20th, 2020 3:52 am

This is an unpaid leave under the ESA because of Covid. Just trying to understand if under the emergency orders hospital are given the right to deny a leave under the ESA .

I'm trying to get a clear idea from my MPP.

+1

May 20th, 2020 8:49 am

dolfan1980: Deal Addict; Aug 3, 2017; 1483 posts; 1213 upvotes

May 20th, 2020 8:49 am

paf wrote: ↑ This is an unpaid leave under the ESA because of Covid. Just trying to understand if under the emergency orders hospital are given the right to deny a leave under the ESA .

I'm trying to get a clear idea from my MPP.

I would be shocked if the employer doesn’t have the right to deny the leave on the basis of operational need. I know that isn’t what you want to hear, but leave is often denied due to operational need in workplaces all over the country. Denying a health care worker leave during a pandemic because they are needed doesn’t sound unreasonable.

+1

May 20th, 2020 12:50 pm

i6s1: Deal Expert; Feb 9, 2003; 19663 posts; 3842 upvotes; 9347934 downvotes

May 20th, 2020 12:50 pm

Since you're not essential, you should take leave and apply for CARB.

+1

May 21st, 2020 11:59 am

CNeufeld: Deal Guru; Mar 23, 2008; 13006 posts; 9992 upvotes; Edmonton

May 21st, 2020 11:59 am

dolfan1980 wrote: ↑ I would be shocked if the employer doesn’t have the right to deny the leave on the basis of operational need. I know that isn’t what you want to hear, but leave is often denied due to operational need in workplaces all over the country. Denying a health care worker leave during a pandemic because they are needed doesn’t sound unreasonable.

This. One of you is considered an essential worker, the other is not. Doesn't seem too difficult to see who should be expected to take leave based on that. Plus one of you can work from home, and I'm guessing, the other one cannot.

Your wife can always quit her job if she needs to take time off. Not meaning to be harsh, but not sugar coating it either.

C

+2

May 22nd, 2020 7:14 am

alex-book: Banned; Sep 8, 2008; 109 posts; 72 upvotes

May 22nd, 2020 7:14 am

i6s1 wrote: ↑ Since you're not essential, you should take leave and apply for CARB.

Wouldn't he be ineligible for the CERB if he takes leave of absence willingly?

+1

May 22nd, 2020 5:22 pm

breads: Member; May 31, 2017; 332 posts; 88 upvotes

May 22nd, 2020 5:22 pm

alex-book wrote: ↑ Wouldn't he be ineligible for the CERB if he takes leave of absence willingly?

He is eligible if he's doing so to look after his children due to daycare/school closures.

+2

May 23rd, 2020 10:33 am

cgtlky: Deal Fanatic; Jan 31, 2006; 8469 posts; 2626 upvotes; Toronto

May 23rd, 2020 10:33 am

paf wrote: ↑ This is an unpaid leave under the ESA because of Covid. Just trying to understand if under the emergency orders hospital are given the right to deny a leave under the ESA .

I'm trying to get a clear idea from my MPP.

Anybody work in the hospital is considered essential worker / frontliner so I think that is the reason she got denied (if she got approves, then other who are working in the hospital should be given the same , then what will happen to the hospital ? ) . As other say, you apply for CERB and take care of your kids.

May 23rd, 2020 4:23 pm

Scc379: Newbie; Jun 14, 2019; 21 posts; 23 upvotes

May 23rd, 2020 4:23 pm

The Ontario government passed an emergency order that applies to hospital workers/long term care home workers.

"The Order explicitly states that this power includes the authority to do the following:
Deferring or cancelling vacations, absences or other leaves, regardless of whether such vacations, absences or leaves are established by statute, regulation, agreement or otherwise"

https://www.osler.com/en/resources/regu ... ders-and-l

Bottom line, the hospital can cancel your vacations, deny you leaves and even call you back from leave under this emergency legislation. They need "all hands on deck", it'd be a disaster if they were short staffed during a pandemic.

Best to consider the option mentioned above (you apply for leave). Or even just talk to you employer to see if they can be more flexible.

May 25th, 2020 9:13 pm

crayola1: Deal Addict; Nov 1, 2016; 1478 posts; 1956 upvotes; Toronto

May 25th, 2020 9:13 pm

I feel you on this. I also have a 20 month old at home. My husband and I work from home. My mother AND father have been helping us watch her while we both work.
What work doesn't really care (or appreciate because it seems rather expected) is that we are already breaking provincial laws of social distancing by asking our senior family members to take risks by coming to help us. It's so ironic. But for the sake of operational needs, work certainly doesn't think so.
My parents are getting tired and we are taking care of them in financial ways (cash gifts) to give personal thanks. They are beyond exhausted and throwing in the towel as well. My parents are my heros and I am starting to realize that I need to think of my family first rather than work.

+1

May 30th, 2020 11:18 am

random pattern: Deal Addict; Mar 29, 2008; 4077 posts; 1180 upvotes

May 30th, 2020 11:18 am

paf wrote: ↑ Hello all,

My wife works at a hospital and I've been working from home during these times

Initially my MIL was helping with the two kids however she can't help out anymore .

We have a 6 year old and an infant of 20 month .

We are not eligible for the daycare as I'm not an essential working .

Her hospital is denying the leave stating that since I'm working from home , I should be responsible for the kids .

I want to know if can an employer deny the leave on such grounds ? We have provided them with the notice from the school . The issue is I'm on back to back calls on day for work and can't be watching the infant and it is really a safety hazard.

Also they assumed I was applying for the declared emergency leave . I know there are similar leaves like the infectious disease emergency leave

Wanted to get your input and see if anyone has similar cases

Thanks

I don’t understand this. If she’s an essential worker should she be eligible for the daycare, regardless of your status? I don’t know how it works; just asking the question.

Jun 1st, 2020 5:50 pm

CNeufeld: Deal Guru; Mar 23, 2008; 13006 posts; 9992 upvotes; Edmonton

Jun 1st, 2020 5:50 pm

random pattern wrote: ↑ I don’t understand this. If she’s an essential worker should she be eligible for the daycare, regardless of your status? I don’t know how it works; just asking the question.

I'm guessing there's a very limited number of daycare spots available, which means if one parent is considered "non-essential", then no daycare. If it was a single parent or both parents were essential, it would be a different story.

ETA: Just checked the City of Toronto website. Daycare is available to those deemed essential, with no other options. Having a non-essential spouse means you have other options. Plus it's "first come, first serve", with an application process.
https://www.toronto.ca/home/covid-19/co ... l-workers/

C

Jun 2nd, 2020 9:05 am

KennyX: Deal Addict; Oct 17, 2002; 1323 posts; 384 upvotes; Oakville

Jun 2nd, 2020 9:05 am

CNeufeld wrote: ↑ This. One of you is considered an essential worker, the other is not. Doesn't seem too difficult to see who should be expected to take leave based on that. Plus one of you can work from home, and I'm guessing, the other one cannot.

Your wife can always quit her job if she needs to take time off. Not meaning to be harsh, but not sugar coating it either.

C

Tough situation for sure. Not really an easy answer though.

We would have been in this very situation if this happened last year (we lived in a different city and had a baby - when baby was born we moved and she quit her job because what she made vs. cost of commute, etc... didnt make sense).

I say it's not easy because I make the majority of the household income (and it's not even close). For me to have to go on CERB and make a max? of $2000 a month would be insane. In all honesty, my wife would have had to quit her job.

Harsh reality, but income and needs of your own family need be the primary factor here.

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