Parenting & Family

Denied - Declared Emergency leave

  • Last Updated:
  • Jun 2nd, 2020 9:05 am
[OP]
Sr. Member
Dec 27, 2005
593 posts
116 upvotes
Toronto, ON

Denied - Declared Emergency leave

Hello all,

My wife works at a hospital and I've been working from home during these times

Initially my MIL was helping with the two kids however she can't help out anymore .

We have a 6 year old and an infant of 20 month .

We are not eligible for the daycare as I'm not an essential working .

Her hospital is denying the leave stating that since I'm working from home , I should be responsible for the kids .

I want to know if can an employer deny the leave on such grounds ? We have provided them with the notice from the school . The issue is I'm on back to back calls on day for work and can't be watching the infant and it is really a safety hazard.

Also they assumed I was applying for the declared emergency leave . I know there are similar leaves like the infectious disease emergency leave

Wanted to get your input and see if anyone has similar cases

Thanks
14 replies
Sr. Member
May 12, 2014
898 posts
529 upvotes
Markham, ON
I feel your pain and don't have any helpful suggestions. I have a 6 and 7 year old so at least I can give them a tablet for all my meetings, with a 20 month old I wouldn't know what to do.
Sr. Member
Aug 3, 2017
683 posts
501 upvotes
paf wrote: Hello all,

My wife works at a hospital and I've been working from home during these times

Initially my MIL was helping with the two kids however she can't help out anymore .

We have a 6 year old and an infant of 20 month .

We are not eligible for the daycare as I'm not an essential working .

Her hospital is denying the leave stating that since I'm working from home , I should be responsible for the kids .

I want to know if can an employer deny the leave on such grounds ? We have provided them with the notice from the school . The issue is I'm on back to back calls on day for work and can't be watching the infant and it is really a safety hazard.

Also they assumed I was applying for the declared emergency leave . I know there are similar leaves like the infectious disease emergency leave

Wanted to get your input and see if anyone has similar cases

Thanks
Are either of you able to ask for staggered hours so that she can watch the kids while you work and vice versa? It’s hard, but unless one of you takes unpaid leave I’m not sure either employer have to grant you paid leave. If they’re denying unpaid leave and not providing any flexibility then that’s rough, but otherwise you both have to try to be as flexible as you can too.
[OP]
Sr. Member
Dec 27, 2005
593 posts
116 upvotes
Toronto, ON
This is an unpaid leave under the ESA because of Covid. Just trying to understand if under the emergency orders hospital are given the right to deny a leave under the ESA .

I'm trying to get a clear idea from my MPP.
Sr. Member
Aug 3, 2017
683 posts
501 upvotes
paf wrote: This is an unpaid leave under the ESA because of Covid. Just trying to understand if under the emergency orders hospital are given the right to deny a leave under the ESA .

I'm trying to get a clear idea from my MPP.
I would be shocked if the employer doesn’t have the right to deny the leave on the basis of operational need. I know that isn’t what you want to hear, but leave is often denied due to operational need in workplaces all over the country. Denying a health care worker leave during a pandemic because they are needed doesn’t sound unreasonable.
Deal Expert
User avatar
Feb 9, 2003
18470 posts
2847 upvotes
Langley
Since you're not essential, you should take leave and apply for CARB.
Deal Guru
User avatar
Mar 23, 2008
11907 posts
8172 upvotes
Edmonton
dolfan1980 wrote: I would be shocked if the employer doesn’t have the right to deny the leave on the basis of operational need. I know that isn’t what you want to hear, but leave is often denied due to operational need in workplaces all over the country. Denying a health care worker leave during a pandemic because they are needed doesn’t sound unreasonable.
This. One of you is considered an essential worker, the other is not. Doesn't seem too difficult to see who should be expected to take leave based on that. Plus one of you can work from home, and I'm guessing, the other one cannot.

Your wife can always quit her job if she needs to take time off. Not meaning to be harsh, but not sugar coating it either.

C
Banned
Sep 8, 2008
109 posts
72 upvotes
i6s1 wrote: Since you're not essential, you should take leave and apply for CARB.
Wouldn't he be ineligible for the CERB if he takes leave of absence willingly?
Member
May 31, 2017
286 posts
80 upvotes
alex-book wrote: Wouldn't he be ineligible for the CERB if he takes leave of absence willingly?
He is eligible if he's doing so to look after his children due to daycare/school closures.
Deal Fanatic
User avatar
Jan 31, 2006
7015 posts
1741 upvotes
Toronto
paf wrote: This is an unpaid leave under the ESA because of Covid. Just trying to understand if under the emergency orders hospital are given the right to deny a leave under the ESA .

I'm trying to get a clear idea from my MPP.
Anybody work in the hospital is considered essential worker / frontliner so I think that is the reason she got denied (if she got approves, then other who are working in the hospital should be given the same , then what will happen to the hospital ? ) . As other say, you apply for CERB and take care of your kids.
Newbie
Jun 14, 2019
21 posts
23 upvotes
The Ontario government passed an emergency order that applies to hospital workers/long term care home workers.

"The Order explicitly states that this power includes the authority to do the following:
Deferring or cancelling vacations, absences or other leaves, regardless of whether such vacations, absences or leaves are established by statute, regulation, agreement or otherwise"

https://www.osler.com/en/resources/regu ... ders-and-l

Bottom line, the hospital can cancel your vacations, deny you leaves and even call you back from leave under this emergency legislation. They need "all hands on deck", it'd be a disaster if they were short staffed during a pandemic.

Best to consider the option mentioned above (you apply for leave). Or even just talk to you employer to see if they can be more flexible.
Sr. Member
Nov 1, 2016
972 posts
1089 upvotes
Toronto
I feel you on this. I also have a 20 month old at home. My husband and I work from home. My mother AND father have been helping us watch her while we both work.
What work doesn't really care (or appreciate because it seems rather expected) is that we are already breaking provincial laws of social distancing by asking our senior family members to take risks by coming to help us. It's so ironic. But for the sake of operational needs, work certainly doesn't think so.
My parents are getting tired and we are taking care of them in financial ways (cash gifts) to give personal thanks. They are beyond exhausted and throwing in the towel as well. My parents are my heros and I am starting to realize that I need to think of my family first rather than work.
Deal Addict
User avatar
Mar 29, 2008
3475 posts
651 upvotes
paf wrote: Hello all,

My wife works at a hospital and I've been working from home during these times

Initially my MIL was helping with the two kids however she can't help out anymore .

We have a 6 year old and an infant of 20 month .

We are not eligible for the daycare as I'm not an essential working .

Her hospital is denying the leave stating that since I'm working from home , I should be responsible for the kids .

I want to know if can an employer deny the leave on such grounds ? We have provided them with the notice from the school . The issue is I'm on back to back calls on day for work and can't be watching the infant and it is really a safety hazard.

Also they assumed I was applying for the declared emergency leave . I know there are similar leaves like the infectious disease emergency leave

Wanted to get your input and see if anyone has similar cases

Thanks
I don’t understand this. If she’s an essential worker should she be eligible for the daycare, regardless of your status? I don’t know how it works; just asking the question.
Deal Guru
User avatar
Mar 23, 2008
11907 posts
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Edmonton
random pattern wrote: I don’t understand this. If she’s an essential worker should she be eligible for the daycare, regardless of your status? I don’t know how it works; just asking the question.
I'm guessing there's a very limited number of daycare spots available, which means if one parent is considered "non-essential", then no daycare. If it was a single parent or both parents were essential, it would be a different story.

ETA: Just checked the City of Toronto website. Daycare is available to those deemed essential, with no other options. Having a non-essential spouse means you have other options. Plus it's "first come, first serve", with an application process.
https://www.toronto.ca/home/covid-19/co ... l-workers/

C
Sr. Member
Oct 17, 2002
952 posts
159 upvotes
Oakville
CNeufeld wrote: This. One of you is considered an essential worker, the other is not. Doesn't seem too difficult to see who should be expected to take leave based on that. Plus one of you can work from home, and I'm guessing, the other one cannot.

Your wife can always quit her job if she needs to take time off. Not meaning to be harsh, but not sugar coating it either.

C
Tough situation for sure. Not really an easy answer though.

We would have been in this very situation if this happened last year (we lived in a different city and had a baby - when baby was born we moved and she quit her job because what she made vs. cost of commute, etc... didnt make sense).

I say it's not easy because I make the majority of the household income (and it's not even close). For me to have to go on CERB and make a max? of $2000 a month would be insane. In all honesty, my wife would have had to quit her job.

Harsh reality, but income and needs of your own family need be the primary factor here.

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