Personal Finance

Deposited 2000 in cash into HSBC ATM: Didn't get credit

  • Last Updated:
  • Aug 5th, 2021 8:08 pm
[OP]
Newbie
Jul 19, 2021
6 posts
1 upvote

Deposited 2000 in cash into HSBC ATM: Didn't get credit

I don't know if this has ever happened to anyone but wanted to take your suggestions.

I had faced same issue with the ATM 2000$ cash deposit. Initially, the money was credited to my bank account. A few weeks later the transaction was reversed stating that "No Cash found in the ATM". In the meantime, a rep from the bank reached out to me and mentioned that the back office team couldn't reconcile the cash deposit because they couldn't find any cash in the ATM machine. During the discussion, I understood that it has to be deposited using an envelope but there was no sign or instructions from the ATM/branch officer to say the same.

Then, I visited the branch in person and raised concern about this matter and gave a complaint in a written statement to branch Asst. Manager explaining about the situation to take further action. She had asked for the deposit receipts and the denominations for all those details. I told her upfront saying that since it has already been 1 month passed I didn't have the receipt at the moment and I don't recall all the denominations. I would research and get the receipts for them if I find. Later I found the receipts and handed over to the bank Asst. Manager, she scanned all the receipts (including the source of money from Western Union). They started the investigation but no updates from the Asst.Manager, so I had to run behind her every week to get an update. During my phone conversation with the Asst. Manager, I was given hope saying that they are planning to give credit for that internally working with the manager to get an approval. Since the manager was on vacation it would take another 2 to 3 weeks. Then I waited for 3-4 weeks but no updates after that, since there are no promising actions taken for more than 90 days now, I visited the branch and had a chat with the branch manager and bank rep. They mentioned that they had investigated with the back office/security/investigation team 2 to 3 times but it was turned down. So, It seems like you didn't put the cash in the ATM because our investigation team also mentioned the same thing saying there was no cash in the machine. Then I asked a question about how the transaction got completed and printed a receipt. They said this ATM machine is not an automated one. Even if we put an empty envelope and enter some random number and print the receipt, it would do that. This is so ridiculous, I never heard of any bank like this before.

Below are the reasons they gave:

1. No cash was found in the ATM machine
2. Video recordings - They could see my image near the ATM but the gesture didn't clearly show that I had deposited cash. I was worried that the footage could have captured the event's - cash deposit because I was standing near the ATM for about 3 to 5 mins to set my PIN for the very first time on that day after opening a bank account on the same day and then deposited the cash in the ATM.

Could you shed some light on their escalated investigation process. Also, could you advise how to handle this situation and take it further. In the meantime, I have requested them to get the video recordings to verify and provide some inputs for them.
76 replies
Deal Addict
Apr 23, 2017
1185 posts
2124 upvotes
This kind of situation is why I only deposited cheques at ATM machines ever since the 1980s, and took out cash from them, but never deposited cash into them - back when my (non-HSBC) bank used the older ATMs that used envelopes. Too risky, imo.

Now that my bank uses more modern ATMs that don't use envelopes, I do deposit cash into ATMs once in a while, as the ATM scans the cash and, presumably checks for counterfeits, and tells me how many of each demonization I have deposited. With this there is no way they could later say the money wasn't deposited.

Two possibilities in such a situation is either the envelope full of cash went missing from the ATM, or the client mistakenly deposited an empty envelope. If an empty envelope, the bank would have the empty envelope - if they don't, it would indicate the envelope went missing when they were handling it/serving the ATM.

I had an ex g/f that used to deposit cash at ATMs in envelopes. She never had it go missing, but once she thought she put $200 in and only put $180 in. Her statement showed the deposit as $180, and she checked her wallet and did find an extra $20 bill. Another time, rushing, she deposited a cheque for about $500 in an envelope but in the rush forgot to put the cheque in, and realized this when she got home, and was going to go into her home branch after work the next day to sort it out. She got as call the next day in the morning from someone at the branch saying not to deposit empty envelopes, and if she did it again they might close her chequing account. My point being, they know if the envelope is empty - if they didn't contact you right away that your envelope was empty, the assumption must be they have no empty envelope, rather they have no envelope at all as it and its contents disappeared somehow.

I guess the lesson here is if depositing cash in an envelope, hold it the cash front of the ATM video camera as one puts it in the envelope, seals it, and sticks it in the ATM, so the video recording clearly shows the cash going in.
[OP]
Newbie
Jul 19, 2021
6 posts
1 upvote
Thank you Sherman for your response and sharing the experience.

"I guess the lesson here is if depositing cash in an envelope, hold it the cash front of the ATM video camera as one puts it in the envelope, seals it, and sticks it in the ATM, so the video recording clearly shows the cash going in" - If I knew this before then I could have used envelope for sure while depositing the cash into ATM and showed the signs like you mentioned. This is something totally new for me. I lived in 2 countries before relocating to Canada but never had this kind of experience before.

Just to clarify, in my situation I deposited the cash directly in the ATM machine without putting it into an envelope because I never had any prior experience doing that like that before and I wasn't aware or educated that this is the protocol to be followed while depositing the cash in HSBC ATM. I'm new to Canada as well as HSBC and this is my first time using HSBC bank ATM. Even the bank rep didn't let me know this procedure to be followed when opening the bank account on that day though I mentioned to him that I have to deposit the cash. Actually, I had visited the branch 2 times to open the account since the application was not approved on the first day. First visit, he explained all the benefits and one of them was "Receive a welcome bonus for up to 500$ when opening an eligible chequing account and complete the deposits within 30 days" - I opted for HSBC Advance Chequing account and told him that I have $6000 cash with me to deposit.

A few weeks later, I got a call from the bank rep asking how I deposited the cash and all those details, I reminded her of our old conversation and asked the reason she mentioned that the back office team couldn't reconcile the cash deposit because they couldn't find any cash in the ATM machine. During that discussion, I understood that it has to be deposited using an envelope but there was no sign or instructions from the ATM/branch office to say the same. I have provided as much information as I could on that day. Since it has already been a few weeks, I didn't remember where I kept the receipt so I told her upfront I would have to research the receipt but I don't recall the denominations for sure. I told her that I confirmed this transaction was posted successfully in the online banking system. Since she asked for a receipt, I said I would research and get it for them if I find it. Later, I found the receipts and handed them over to the bank Asst. Manager, she scanned all the receipts (including the source of money from Western Union).

Then the rest of the above story follows from raising complaints.
Jr. Member
Sep 6, 2017
136 posts
114 upvotes
Sorry to hear about the incident OP. Tho to be honest, you likely would have faced the same issue with any bank, no just with HSBC.

Due to bureaucracy, you'll probably have to wait a while to resolve the situation but from my understanding, banks have very stringent processes when handling money so it'll probably be found eventually.

HSBC is one of the banks I use and I found them to be decent. I probably earned $4-5k off opening a bank account with them and closing it immediately :)
Deal Fanatic
May 4, 2014
5200 posts
7055 upvotes
Toronto, ON
Never deposit cash at ATM.... the bank staff don't collect the envelopes - its outsourced to Brinks or whoever collects it. Since the machine doesn't serve to confirm you have deposited what you claim to have deposited, there's simply no proof.

The bank is right here...
Deal Addict
User avatar
Oct 13, 2007
4694 posts
3659 upvotes
Edmonton
sivamuruganmd wrote: Thank you Sherman for your response and sharing the experience.

"I guess the lesson here is if depositing cash in an envelope, hold it the cash front of the ATM video camera as one puts it in the envelope, seals it, and sticks it in the ATM, so the video recording clearly shows the cash going in" - If I knew this before then I could have used envelope for sure while depositing the cash into ATM and showed the signs like you mentioned. This is something totally new for me. I lived in 2 countries before relocating to Canada but never had this kind of experience before.

Just to clarify, in my situation I deposited the cash directly in the ATM machine without putting it into an envelope because I never had any prior experience doing that like that before and I wasn't aware or educated that this is the protocol to be followed while depositing the cash in HSBC ATM. I'm new to Canada as well as HSBC and this is my first time using HSBC bank ATM. Even the bank rep didn't let me know this procedure to be followed when opening the bank account on that day though I mentioned to him that I have to deposit the cash. Actually, I had visited the branch 2 times to open the account since the application was not approved on the first day. First visit, he explained all the benefits and one of them was "Receive a welcome bonus for up to 500$ when opening an eligible chequing account and complete the deposits within 30 days" - I opted for HSBC Advance Chequing account and told him that I have $6000 cash with me to deposit.

A few weeks later, I got a call from the bank rep asking how I deposited the cash and all those details, I reminded her of our old conversation and asked the reason she mentioned that the back office team couldn't reconcile the cash deposit because they couldn't find any cash in the ATM machine. During that discussion, I understood that it has to be deposited using an envelope but there was no sign or instructions from the ATM/branch office to say the same. I have provided as much information as I could on that day. Since it has already been a few weeks, I didn't remember where I kept the receipt so I told her upfront I would have to research the receipt but I don't recall the denominations for sure. I told her that I confirmed this transaction was posted successfully in the online banking system. Since she asked for a receipt, I said I would research and get it for them if I find it. Later, I found the receipts and handed them over to the bank Asst. Manager, she scanned all the receipts (including the source of money from Western Union).

Then the rest of the above story follows from raising complaints.
You mention here that you told the bank that you had $6000 to deposit but in your initial post, you mention $2000.

If this was a new account and you met with a banking rep, why did you deposit at the machine and not just in person when you had the opportunity?
Deal Addict
User avatar
Oct 13, 2007
4694 posts
3659 upvotes
Edmonton
Given that this machine is set up to take envelopes, I wonder how it deals with multiple bills. What were the denominations? I’m guessing it would be at least $100 bills so that would be 20 bills.

More important than security footage of the deposit, what about security footage of the pick-up? These would be the only loose bills.
Deal Addict
User avatar
Dec 17, 2008
2780 posts
2280 upvotes
Winnipeg
So if I am understanding correctly....you should have deposited the money in an envelope...but instead you just deposited the cash into the machine? Hence there is no record because it was just loose cash in a machine that should have had envelopes and money deposited in the envelopes?

Just want to clarify
*Do you like someone's idea, post, or response? Why not consider giving them "thanks" and clicking the thumbs up to give them the credit they deserve.*
Deal Expert
User avatar
Jan 9, 2011
17102 posts
23652 upvotes
Vancouver
Yikes. OP you used an ATM that requires envelopes, but just put in loose bank notes? Any ATM that I have seen that accepts envelope-free cash deposits counts the cash you feed into it and asks if you agree with the tally before proceeding, so there is no disputing the amount later. You wouldn't have seen that message, and HSBC of course would not have seen any envelope containing the money you deposited. I'm petty sure those envelopes get printed or marked with information identifying your account.

Whoever did empty the ATM (probably Brink semployees) would have found a bunch of loose notes gumming up the machine. Who knows how that may have ended up, but with no envelope with identifying information, the temptation to just take them would have been there for sure.

I'm sorry to say @sivamuruganmd that this was a very expensive mistake and I wouldn't count on getting any of that money back.
Deal Addict
Mar 3, 2009
1807 posts
1104 upvotes
Ottawa, ON
starchoice wrote: Given that this machine is set up to take envelopes, I wonder how it deals with multiple bills. What were the denominations? I’m guessing it would be at least $100 bills so that would be 20 bills.

More important than security footage of the deposit, what about security footage of the pick-up? These would be the only loose bills.
I was thinking the same thing. The machine is designed to take one envelope. I would have thought 20 bills would have gotten stuck or only the top bill would have gone though.

I wonder if it's possible the bills have fallen somewhere inside the machine but not where the envelopes go?

OP, did you make it clear to HSBC that you did not use an envelope? Maybe they could do a thorough search of the machine?
Deal Expert
User avatar
Jan 27, 2004
51224 posts
15630 upvotes
ONTARIO
Kiraly wrote: Yikes. OP you used an ATM that requires envelopes, but just put in loose bank notes? Any ATM that I have seen that accepts envelope-free cash deposits counts the cash you feed into it and asks if you agree with the tally before proceeding, so there is no disputing the amount later. You wouldn't have seen that message, and HSBC of course would not have seen any envelope containing the money you deposited. I'm petty sure those envelopes get printed or marked with information identifying your account.

Whoever did empty the ATM (probably Brink semployees) would have found a bunch of loose notes gumming up the machine. Who knows how that may have ended up, but with no envelope with identifying information, the temptation to just take them would have been there for sure.

I'm sorry to say @sivamuruganmd that this was a very expensive mistake and I wouldn't count on getting any of that money back.
You got the right idea actually…
I can’t give out too much detail.
But depositing cash without an envelope into an ATM that requires it, will make it extremely difficult to trace that money.

Hopefully thats a branch that still services their own ATM’s. Because they can check their records go see if theres any overages. But thats easy to do, it would be the first thing they try.

But yeah, it makes it much easier to steal.
Deal Addict
Apr 23, 2017
1185 posts
2124 upvotes
sivamuruganmd wrote: Thank you Sherman for your response and sharing the experience.

"I guess the lesson here is if depositing cash in an envelope, hold it the cash front of the ATM video camera as one puts it in the envelope, seals it, and sticks it in the ATM, so the video recording clearly shows the cash going in" - If I knew this before then I could have used envelope for sure while depositing the cash into ATM and showed the signs like you mentioned. This is something totally new for me. I lived in 2 countries before relocating to Canada but never had this kind of experience before.

Just to clarify, in my situation I deposited the cash directly in the ATM machine without putting it into an envelope because I never had any prior experience doing that like that before and I wasn't aware or educated that this is the protocol to be followed while depositing the cash in HSBC ATM. I'm new to Canada as well as HSBC and this is my first time using HSBC bank ATM. Even the bank rep didn't let me know this procedure to be followed when opening the bank account on that day though I mentioned to him that I have to deposit the cash. Actually, I had visited the branch 2 times to open the account since the application was not approved on the first day. First visit, he explained all the benefits and one of them was "Receive a welcome bonus for up to 500$ when opening an eligible chequing account and complete the deposits within 30 days" - I opted for HSBC Advance Chequing account and told him that I have $6000 cash with me to deposit.

A few weeks later, I got a call from the bank rep asking how I deposited the cash and all those details, I reminded her of our old conversation and asked the reason she mentioned that the back office team couldn't reconcile the cash deposit because they couldn't find any cash in the ATM machine. During that discussion, I understood that it has to be deposited using an envelope but there was no sign or instructions from the ATM/branch office to say the same. I have provided as much information as I could on that day. Since it has already been a few weeks, I didn't remember where I kept the receipt so I told her upfront I would have to research the receipt but I don't recall the denominations for sure. I told her that I confirmed this transaction was posted successfully in the online banking system. Since she asked for a receipt, I said I would research and get it for them if I find it. Later, I found the receipts and handed them over to the bank Asst. Manager, she scanned all the receipts (including the source of money from Western Union).

Then the rest of the above story follows from raising complaints.
Sorry, I thought you used an envelope and the bank then lost the envelope. Most modern ATMs I come across are the type that no longer use envelopes and one feeds the cash directly in - the ATM counts and verifies the bills, and tells you on screen how much he deposit is for. Where I live, RBC and BMO ATMS at the local branches are all this new envelope-free type, as are the Chase ATMs in the U.S. that I use. I guess not all branches/banks use the newer direct feed type.

If the branch had the older envelope ATM, and you deposited the cash without an envelope, the money would be loose inside the ATM/not properly deposited and whoever serviced the ATM may have done who knows what with it. It would be interesting to see if their was video of the servicing of the ATM.

Once in the early 1980s soon after ATMs appeared in branch lobbies (the old IBM models that spit out the square punch card-like thick cardstock receipts) a friend of mine said he deposited loose change into a bank ATM (in an envelope). I think it was Royal Bank. Like $5 in nickels and dimes and pennies. He thought it was easier than having to carry around loose change to spend, or roll it up to deposit in branch. He said next time he was in-branch making a deposit and updating his bank book, the teller said "Oh, you are the one who deposited a bunch of spare change into our ATM". He said "yeah, I did, so what?" and she said the envelope split as the ATM processed it and the change went everywhere and put a wrench in the works/messed up the inner mechanism and the ATM automatically went out of service pending maintenance/service. Someone then had to clean out the mechanical mechanism and remove the coins, which the teller said were disposed of, and told him did not/would not receive credit for the deposit. She added 'Do not deposit change into the ATM in future, please." In later years they, as I recall, started putting "no coins" on the envelopes but they hadn't yet at that time.
Member
Jun 6, 2014
311 posts
143 upvotes
Toronto, ON
When you make a deposit, they will show you a demonstration of putting your items in an envelope on the screen. And there should also be symbols on the machine too. Generally, if there are envelopes available beside the machine, you use them. If not then it's loose. It will say on the screen what to do.
Deal Addict
User avatar
Sep 6, 2018
1876 posts
2282 upvotes
Halifax, Nova Scotia
HermanH wrote: how many of each demonization I have deposited.
Image
Sr. Member
Jul 25, 2019
551 posts
226 upvotes
Reach out to the ombudsman (as a last ditch effort)
Deal Expert
User avatar
Jan 27, 2004
51224 posts
15630 upvotes
ONTARIO
Problem is… you deposited cash into an ATM without an envelope when one was required.
So you sorta have some responsibility for it being lost because instructions weren't followed.

I’ve used HSBC ATM’s before. It does say “insert envelope”. With an animation of an envelope on the screen.

It just makes it really hard for them to locate. Because there was never an envelope. Therefore nothing to trace.
They could look for loose bills in the ATM. But if that can’t be located, youre kinda out of luck…

For example if G4S (they bought out brinks) services the machine… they pull out the envelopes, do their admin work and stuff it into a bag to be shipped back for processing.
Then they fill it up and notice “oh theres some loose bills here. Meh. Just ship it back to processing and let them deal with it”
Or “oh they must have fell out while loading. Just stick it back in”

See if they can count the ATM and see if there is an overage incase the loose bills were just put back into the atm.
Deal Expert
User avatar
Aug 18, 2005
21136 posts
5828 upvotes
Burlington-Hamilton
UrbanPoet wrote: Problem is… you deposited cash into an ATM without an envelope when one was required.
So you sorta have some responsibility for it being lost because instructions weren't followed.
Good point... thanks, I didn't catch the part about how he missed using an envelope.
I still wonder about the sequence of events. The cynic in me suggests that whoever empties the machine stole the money. But I thought everything was opened in front of cameras, with at least 2 people. Is this old information? Were the bank or subcontractor employees working together to hide it?
- casual gastronomist -
Deal Expert
User avatar
Feb 8, 2014
28775 posts
12496 upvotes
Socially Distanced
PenguinNinja007 wrote: HSBC is one of the banks I use and I found them to be decent. I probably earned $4-5k off opening a bank account with them and closing it immediately :)
How?
In fact in Rand McNally they wear hats on their feet and hamburgers eat people

Top

Thread Information

There is currently 1 user viewing this thread. (0 members and 1 guest)