Automotive

Disclosure ready a few days before court date, should I go pick up

  • Last Updated:
  • Jun 8th, 2011 2:40 am
Newbie
Nov 28, 2007
40 posts
1 upvote
Thunder Bay

Disclosure ready a few days before court date, should I go pick up

Hi

I have got a ticket for going 66 on 50 zone. I was not convinced that I did go at that speed, so I have requested for a disclosure. The court date is May 31 and I have requested for the disclosure Feb 6th. They have just called me (May 25, afternoon) that my disclosure is ready. (Minus the weekend, I only have 3 days to react)

I am sure this is a trick that the nasty prosecutor played on me. Even if I go pick up I have no time to talk to an expert and prepare for my case. Am I allowed to use this as basis to ask for another court date?

thanks
21 replies
Deal Fanatic
User avatar
Sep 2, 2006
6354 posts
1013 upvotes
Toronto, ON
pick-up? It should've been mailed to you. Regardless, at trial you WILL get an adjournment to review. As well, you will be able to hodl it against the prosecutor. If they just left a message on your VM, just cite that you never got it to the JP. That way your 11b opportunity is maintained should you need additional disclosure.
Deal Guru
User avatar
Nov 21, 2009
12732 posts
1810 upvotes
m4gician wrote: pick-up? It should've been mailed to you. Regardless, at trial you WILL get an adjournment to review. As well, you will be able to hodl it against the prosecutor. If they just left a message on your VM, just cite that you never got it to the JP. That way your 11b opportunity is maintained should you need additional disclosure.

you suggest him to commit perjury? :)
I agree it's bit late. you can argue in court that it is not enough to prepare defence and ask for adjournment
Deal Addict
User avatar
Jan 31, 2010
1722 posts
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Barrie
Most JP's would grant you an adjournment in this type of circumstance, so pick it up and then go to your court date and request an adjournment :)
Newbie
Nov 28, 2007
40 posts
1 upvote
Thunder Bay
thanks for all your advice

I think I will go ahead pick it up today then.
Newbie
Nov 28, 2007
40 posts
1 upvote
Thunder Bay
m4gician wrote: pick-up? It should've been mailed to you. Regardless, at trial you WILL get an adjournment to review. As well, you will be able to hodl it against the prosecutor. If they just left a message on your VM, just cite that you never got it to the JP. That way your 11b opportunity is maintained should you need additional disclosure.

On the disclosure application, it is specified that they will not mail it to you and you need to pick it up. I was not going to take that risk.
However, I do not understand the part about 11b. If I need additional disclosure (which I am sure I would), would I not be able to get them now?
Newbie
Nov 28, 2007
40 posts
1 upvote
Thunder Bay
just got my disclosure
What a joke... two pages of hand written note in total of about 100 words.
No radar, no photos or any hard evidence.

No matter what the court outcome is. I already know I am innocent and confirmed my assumption that the police was just racking up ticket on that day.
(I remember on that day even before I was able to pull away, they stopped another guy)
Deal Addict
Sep 22, 2007
4599 posts
121 upvotes
What hard evidence were you expecting? Unless it was photo radar, there wouldn't be pictures; all it's going to be is the issuing officers notes on what happened.
Newbie
Nov 28, 2007
40 posts
1 upvote
Thunder Bay
spf1971 wrote: What hard evidence were you expecting? Unless it was photo radar, there wouldn't be pictures; all it's going to be is the issuing officers notes on what happened.
No idea, I have never done this

I guess I was expecting more. Shouldn't the device they were using output some kind of record?... like at what time this machine recorded someone going at what speed...

It's amazing how they attempt to convict someone with a couple of words from a cop.
Newbie
May 6, 2011
53 posts
20 upvotes
Toronto
you need to ask for further disclosure
Newbie
Nov 28, 2007
40 posts
1 upvote
Thunder Bay
TerryX wrote: you need to ask for further disclosure

thanks

but how do I do that?
and so close to court date?
Deal Fanatic
Nov 1, 2006
9648 posts
3950 upvotes
Toronto
Last time I requested disclosure, I didn't receive it before my court date. When I got to the court I told the prosecutor that I had not received disclosure as requested. She was able to tell me that a voicemail had been left at my phone number a week previously. She then handed a copy of the disclosure to me. It gave absolutely no more information than was on the ticket. When the case came up, she dropped the case on the basis of insufficient evidence.

Remember that disclosure has to provide you with all the evidence that they are going to use against you. So you need to use it to show insufficient evidence. You can always ask for a new date on the basis of insufficient time to examine it and get expert opinion but this won't count for 11(b).

If adjournment is not granted, I suggest you focus on procedure: ask the cop the direct questions: how do you know it was me, why didn't you show me the reading on the speed gun, do you remember my surprised reaction (presuming you are innocent here!)? If there were two cops involved, how did you communicate to the other? Then when the evidence is complete, you turn to the JP and argue you were never presented with any evidence that you were speeding at the time, that no additional evidence was given in disclosure, that no additional evidence was presented in court, that your evidence is at least as valuable as the officers as you have sworn to tell the truth and that the case should be dismissed because of insufficient evidence.

Good luck
Sr. Member
Apr 13, 2009
871 posts
110 upvotes
xusword wrote: Hi

I have got a ticket for going 66 on 50 zone. I was not convinced that I did go at that speed, so I have requested for a disclosure. The court date is May 31 and I have requested for the disclosure Feb 6th. They have just called me (May 25, afternoon) that my disclosure is ready. (Minus the weekend, I only have 3 days to react)

I am sure this is a trick that the nasty prosecutor played on me. Even if I go pick up I have no time to talk to an expert and prepare for my case. Am I allowed to use this as basis to ask for another court date?

thanks

What was the actual speed you were going?
Newbie
Nov 28, 2007
40 posts
1 upvote
Thunder Bay
Jimbobs wrote: do you remember my surprised reaction (presuming you are innocent here!)?

Good luck


thanks
BTW
I was QUITE surprised, so was everybody else on the street (they all slammed on the break like they don't know who is the unlucky bastard the cop's catching) But I remember I tried very hard not to show it....
Newbie
Nov 28, 2007
40 posts
1 upvote
Thunder Bay
ChuckCharles wrote: What was the actual speed you were going?

Honestly, I don't think this is a fair question. People don't stare at their speedometer constantly.
But one thing is for sure, I was going at around the same speed of most vehicle I see on the street at that time. There was NO WAY I was going 66 if that's what you want to know.
Deal Addict
Sep 22, 2007
4599 posts
121 upvotes
xusword wrote: Honestly, I don't think this is a fair question. People don't stare at their speedometer constantly.
But one thing is for sure, I was going at around the same speed of most vehicle I see on the street at that time. There was NO WAY I was going 66 if that's what you want to know.

While you don't stare at it constantly, you should pay close enough attention to know what speed you are going at any point. It's called situational awareness.
Newbie
Nov 28, 2007
40 posts
1 upvote
Thunder Bay
spf1971 wrote: While you don't stare at it constantly, you should pay close enough attention to know what speed you are going at any point. It's called situational awareness.

And that's why I know I was not going 66
Sr. Member
Apr 13, 2009
871 posts
110 upvotes
xusword wrote: And that's why I know I was not going 66

Actually you already stated you really didn't have any idea what speed you were traveling, a sign of careless driving or careless storytelling.

Next you said you were just going the speed of traffic which is close to admitting you were speeding. Then you also mention that yourself and the other drivers rammed on the brakes when you saw the police, which highly suggests you already knew you were guilty. Maybe in 20 years your stack of Oscars will confirm your ability to act surprised will have been confirmed, but call me dubious that you fooled an experienced copy by feigning surprise.

And you say you don't know your speed, just that you know definitively it was NOT 66. 70 maybe? 60 maybe? You don't know. But an unbiased and trained professional, with years of experience in judging speed, using scientific equipments.. he knows.

This isn't CSI. They don't need a 3D imax multi-angle video and DNA swabs from your steering wheel. They have a qualified witness, sworn to uphold the law. Millions of traffic offenses are witnessed and complaints sworn out every day. In fact an traffic officer seeing you whiz by could file a complaint of speeding against you with nothing more than his observation that you appeared to break the speed limit from his expertise watching traffic every day.

Now that disclosure's been provided by the means YOU requested, there seems to be little to no defense for something that you know, and I know, that you did. Your best bet to slip to sneak out of this is to pray for a technicality. Maybe say that 3 days wasn't enough time for disclosure or hope that the system defeats itself since you appear to have no case.
Sr. Member
Apr 13, 2009
871 posts
110 upvotes
Oh, I just noticed you warped the truth about the disclosure. May 25 to May 31 is not 3 days as you claim, it's 6 days.

We could debate whether that's too close to the hearing, but the way you bent the facts hurts your credibility.

One thing you said I do believe is that they were racking up tickets that day. It sounds like a stretch of road where everyone breaks the speed limit and needed to be enforced. I'm guessing when you approach that section next time, you'll probably slow down and look at your speedo, so that method is working.
Newbie
Nov 28, 2007
40 posts
1 upvote
Thunder Bay
ChuckCharles wrote: Oh, I just noticed you warped the truth about the disclosure. May 25 to May 31 is not 3 days as you claim, it's 6 days.

Wow... You got me

Did I ever say 31 - 25 = 3?

There were only three day to pick them up: 26, 27, and 30th.

I really hope all these rant make you feel better about yourself.

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