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DIY: Classical Craftsman Style Trim from Scratch (Post #602)

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PCShutters wrote: I guess you are not familiar with ethnic food. One table spoon of fish sauce or a pinch of curry is enough to stink up the house for days without proper exhaust fan. Why do you think Asian exhaust fans have such a high cfm rating? Anything less than 300cfm is a joke.
https://www.costco.ca/ge-profile-2.1-cu ... 68975.html

This one is 400 cfm, and they can come in higher as well.

Certain things work for certain situations. If a knee level microwave works for you, that's great. Myself personally, I hate them
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tonershop wrote: Lots of people have a cooktop with oven below combo (range - oven and stove combo). I personally do not see any issue with bending down for the oven.
Depends on the house, but a microwave seems to be used more for quick stuff than an over. Quick reheating of things, etc. You know, what most men and teenagers do. Just pop something in to heat it up and move on

You aren't reheating soup in an oven in a bowl as an example. But like I said, if it works for you, that's great. I find them an inconvience, and then the fun buttons to press for small children as well
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WikkiWikki wrote: https://www.costco.ca/ge-profile-2.1-cu ... 68975.html

This one is 400 cfm, and they can come in higher as well.

Certain things work for certain situations. If a knee level microwave works for you, that's great. Myself personally, I hate them
The photoshopped image shows it sitting less 18 inches above a gas stove(below wall cabinet height). In real world code compliance it should be at least 30" inches above the stove so that microwave vent combo will need to be raised up at about 12-18" higher than that picture is portraying.
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bubuski wrote: The photoshopped image shows it sitting less 18 inches above a gas stove(below wall cabinet height). In real world code compliance it should be at least 30" inches above the stove so that microwave vent combo will need to be raised up at about 12-18" higher than that picture is portraying.
I know what the code is, when we had to do ours in 2 different house, we had to redo the cupboard above to make it comply, Lets not take a photoshopped Costco image as the golden rule.

We don't even have one now, we installed a down draft system that comes up behind the cooktop and vents right out the side of the house in a short run.

OP's post are still awesome, many of us, including myself, wish we had the time and/or skill to do these sorts of things

I am allowed to however say my opinion on knee level microwaves and as well OTR microwaves. Doesn't make me right or wrong, and vice versa
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WikkiWikki wrote: I know what the code is, when we had to do ours in 2 different house, we had to redo the cupboard above to make it comply, Lets not take a photoshopped Costco image as the golden rule.

We don't even have one now, we installed a down draft system that comes up behind the cooktop and vents right out the side of the house in a short run.

OP's post are still awesome, many of us, including myself, wish we had the time and/or skill to do these sorts of things

I am allowed to however say my opinion on knee level microwaves and as well OTR microwaves. Doesn't make me right or wrong, and vice versa
I share your frustration on the knee level microwaves but OP has already confessed they are height challenged in their household and love the lower height.
But given the choice of having a standalone range hood with 6-8" vent paired with a crappy ergonomic microwave VS an all-in one microwave hood combo. I will choose the 1st option.

My personal issue with the microwave hood combo is their noise to performance ratio. Yes it can get to 400cfm at the highest speed but then it will be like a jet engine in the kitchen. The lower speeds while they may be quieter do not have enough venting performance for ethnic foods. Being a 2-in-1 appliance when one half fails like all modern appliances then you'll have to replace both.

I myself choose to build a cabinet for my microwave above the counter. It's a cheap microwave and Panasonic Series 6 replacements sell for under $200.
Image

I lost some countertop space for small appliance storage but had the option to leave it like this.
Image
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bubuski wrote: I share your frustration on the knee level microwaves but OP has already confessed they are height challenged in their household and love the lower height.
But given the choice of having a standalone range hood with 6-8" vent paired with a crappy ergonomic microwave VS an all-in one microwave hood combo. I will choose the 1st option.

My personal issue with the microwave hood combo is their noise to performance ratio. Yes it can get to 400cfm at the highest speed but then it will be like a jet engine in the kitchen. The lower speeds while they may be quieter do not have enough venting performance for ethnic foods. Being a 2-in-1 appliance when one half fails like all modern appliances then you'll have to replace both.

I myself choose to build a cabinet for my microwave above the counter. It's a cheap microwave and Panasonic Series 6 replacements sell for under $200.
Image

I lost some countertop space for small appliance storage but had the option to leave it like this.
Image
We did that of sorts with our kitchen remodel, although we had the room on the end of the counter to add a tower cabinet for a wall over and microwave and a butt load of storage.

Wife wanted 2 wall ovens actually, but the cost and the actual use of 2 ovens was looked into, so we went with a wall oven and a convection microwave for the times when you need 2 ovens. We were blown away how expensive an all in one unit was, and as well, the panel goes and everything is down. We got 2 separate units which cut down cost by a few thousand dollars, and it looks and functions just as good. As well, the all-in-one units, the microwave has the same style door as an oven, a pull down. So reaching into a microwave that high with a pull down door wasn't functional at all. So we got the usual swing door

Not having it above the oven is great actually, since now people aren't reaching over people at the cooktop to get to the microwave. Made the functionality and flow of the kitchen way better, and as well added so much extra storage.
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WikkiWikki wrote: Depends on the house, but a microwave seems to be used more for quick stuff than an over. Quick reheating of things, etc. You know, what most men and teenagers do. Just pop something in to heat it up and move on

You aren't reheating soup in an oven in a bowl as an example. But like I said, if it works for you, that's great. I find them an inconvience, and then the fun buttons to press for small children as well
I'm actually the opposite - I never understood OTR microwaves. They usually make the space under the range very small, and/or it makes taking things in and out of the microwave really dangerous, especially hot liquids.

Microwaves really need to be at counter height, whether it be on the counter itself or build in style, IMO. I know not everyone has the space for it, but one should fully recognize that you are making a trade off.
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Jon Lai wrote: I'm actually the opposite - I never understood OTR microwaves. They usually make the space under the range very small, and/or it makes taking things in and out of the microwave really dangerous, especially hot liquids.

Microwaves really need to be at counter height, whether it be on the counter itself or build in style, IMO. I know not everyone has the space for it, but one should fully recognize that you are making a trade off.
Not if they are done correctly and to the correct height. If you take a range hood and just swap it without redoing the cupboard, yes no space, since that space was for code with a range hood.

I never understood taking things out when they are the height of a average size person. Knee level I can see spilling stuff all the time, and did.

Microwaves should be where the family finds it most useful. For some, that's counter height, others, its above the cabinet. No right or wrong way
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WikkiWikki wrote: Not if they are done correctly and to the correct height. If you take a range hood and just swap it without redoing the cupboard, yes no space, since that space was for code with a range hood.

I never understood taking things out when they are the height of a average size person. Knee level I can see spilling stuff all the time, and did.

Microwaves should be where the family finds it most useful. For some, that's counter height, others, its above the cabinet. No right or wrong way
To mount OTR microwave "to the correct height", the shortest person in your household would need to be at least 7 ft tall. The stove is 36" tall plus 30" clearance for gas stove. So the base of the OTR microwave would have to be mounted at 66 inch or 5.5 ft. Factoring in a few inches for the microwave base. You are looking at 70 inch. You should never be reaching for hot food from above your head. So your shoulder would have to be at the same level as your microwave; hence you would need to be at least 7 ft tall. Canadian average height is 5 ft 9" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Average_h ... by_country).

Personally, I would rather that hot soup is spilled below me rather than on me.
Last edited by tonershop on Jun 23rd, 2020 11:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
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DoubleDouble wrote: Wow, OP....compliments to you & your attention to detail! Not many persons I know have that attention to detail and organization. Your wife is a lucky lady! I'm still trying to organize my garage...
Thanks. I am not OCD or anything but I do find organizing my garage workshop therapeutic. Whenever I don't feel like working on the house, I go to my shop and make something for the shop to get my mood back.
[OP]
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bubuski wrote: I myself choose to build a cabinet for my microwave above the counter. It's a cheap microwave and Panasonic Series 6 replacements sell for under $200.
Image
That is a great idea! I was going to do something similar to this at the initial part of my planning but changed my mind. I even ordered the trim kit and everything.

Question: if you were custom build the cabinet for the microwave, why do you still need the trim kit? Tasco wanted almost $300 for that trim kit which I thought was ridiculous because it cost more than the microwave itself. It also take up unnecessary space around it too. You easily lost 4" for both the width and height. Did you also build the entire kitchen yourself? I would love to see some pictures for inspiration.
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tonershop wrote: To mount OTR microwave "to the correct height", the shortest person in your household would need to be at least 7 ft tall. The stove is 36" tall plus 30" clearance for gas stove. So the base of the OTR microwave would have to be mounted at 60 inch or 5.5 ft. Factoring in a few inches for the microwave base. You are looking at 64 inch. You should never be reaching for hot food from above your head. So your shoulder would have to be at the same level as your microwave; hence you would need to be at least 7 ft tall. Canadian average height is 5 ft 9" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Average_h ... by_country).

Personally, I would rather that hot soup is spilled below me rather than on me.
Why the hell would you need to be 7 feet tall? Are you just putting up info to exaggerate because you dont agree with it?

Im 5'9, never had an issue all the 15 years of an OTR microwave. Even our new house before we did a remodel there was one from the house being built, yet again, I basically looked right into the microwave and it was over the stove

And my math says 60" is 5 feet. Not 5.5 feet. So just add 6" to prove your point? So the base of the microwave is 5 feet, and you need to be 7 feet tall to look into it? How big is this microwave? Anything to just make you look right?

As well, tell me how wall oven/microwave oven combos work? Do you need to be 7 feet tall to use those? If that was the case, the oven would be on the floor, and you would have to get on your knees to get anything out

Now if you are 5 feet, then I can see a reaching issue. But it depends on the house, no one in our house is 5 feet tall anymore. In fact at 5'9 Im the shortest

OTR have their place and work, and see them in many houses. So are you saying millions of people are wrong that have an OTR microwave?
Last edited by WikkiWikki on Jun 23rd, 2020 10:23 am, edited 2 times in total.
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PCShutters wrote: That is a great idea! I was going to do something similar to this at the initial part of my planning but changed my mind. I even ordered the trim kit and everything.

Question: if you were custom build the cabinet for the microwave, why do you still need the trim kit? Tasco wanted almost $300 for that trim kit which I thought was ridiculous because it cost more than the microwave itself. It also take up unnecessary space around it too. You easily lost 4" for both the width and height. Did you also build the entire kitchen yourself? I would love to see some pictures for inspiration.
I was against the trim kit to, but on install, and maybe because its a convection microwave, the base of it vents out air from the microwave. Theres more to the kit then just the trim, it has a base underneath for the microwave to sit on, and then a vent that comes out the front that you dont see. Mine however is a Kitchenaid brand, so i cant comment on other trim kits for other brands
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WikkiWikki wrote: And my math says 60" is 5 feet. Not 5.5 feet. So just add 6" to prove your point? So the base of the microwave is 5 feet, and you need to be 7 feet tall to look into it?
I think he made a typo. 36+30=66" Which is indeed 5.5'

If the bottom most part of the OTR microwave is 66" above the floor, add in 3-4" for the exhaust fan and framing at the bottom. The turntable of the microwave is easily 70"(5'10") above the floor.

If you can see it at your eye level, that must have mean the microwave was mounted lower than it was supposed to be. If you are 5'9", your eyes should be at about 5'4"--the microwave was definitely mounted too low.
[OP]
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Toronto
WikkiWikki wrote: I was against the trim kit to, but on install, and maybe because its a convection microwave, the base of it vents out air from the microwave. Theres more to the kit then just the trim, it has a base underneath for the microwave to sit on, and then a vent that comes out the front that you dont see. Mine however is a Kitchenaid brand, so i cant comment on other trim kits for other brands
Aahh yes. I forgot about venting issues. good point.

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