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DIY: Fireplace Makeover [Post 677]

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  • Nov 13th, 2020 9:13 am
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PCShutters wrote: I think he made a typo. 36+30=66" Which is indeed 5.5'

If the bottom most part of the OTR microwave is 66" above the floor, add in 3-4" for the exhaust fan and framing at the bottom. The turntable of the microwave is easily 70"(5'10") above the floor.

If you can see it at your eye level, that must have mean the microwave was mounted lower than it was supposed to be. If you are 5'9", your eyes should be at about 5'4"--the microwave was definitely mounted too low.
The International Residential Code, the building code on which most local building codes are based, requires a clearance of 30 inches between the top of a range and any combustible surface, but it specifies that over-the-range microwaves, which are designed to tolerate less clearance, should be mounted according to their manufacturer's instructions.

The National Kitchen and Bath Association recommends that the bottom of the microwave should be no higher than 54 inches above the floor, which would allow for 18 inches of clearance between the microwave and the typical cooktop height of 36 inches.

Some manufacturers allow smaller clearances. General Electric, for example, requires that its microwaves be mounted with a minimum of 66 inches between the floor and the top of the microwave, which results in a clearance of between 13 and 16 inches from the microwave to the cooktop. Tight clearances, however, may make it difficult to use large pots on the cooktop.


So in short, it seems the heights can vary, and I assume its on the stove you are using to. We have only used electric stoves, have never been Natural gas fans over the years. So maybe NG need more clearance

And these days many OTR are so slim compared to even 5 years ago, like this one

https://www.costco.ca/whirlpool-1.1-cu. ... 72940.html

This one seems to be half the height of anything we ever owned.

Ours microwaves were always mounted to code, I made sure. Thats why we had to change cupboards because otherwise they would of been to low since they were set for a range hood only.

I also never paid attention to my eyes and the microwave, because I just used it and moved on, was I looking directly into it, maybe, maybe not, in theory, who cares

OTR work for many people, and its fine you and others disagree with that. But the thing is, just because you disagree, doesnt make you right

I disagree with knee level microwaves, I think they're stupid and impractical. But just because I think that, doesn't make me right either
Last edited by WikkiWikki on Jun 23rd, 2020 11:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
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PCShutters wrote: Aahh yes. I forgot about venting issues. good point.
With the trim kit, our microwave and stove look like they are all one piece when they are not. Im sure something could of been bulit as well, but since we have stainless steel anyway, the moey spent on the factory trim kit was worth it, even though its just plastic with a stianless steel film on it
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PCShutters wrote: That is a great idea! I was going to do something similar to this at the initial part of my planning but changed my mind. I even ordered the trim kit and everything.

Question: if you were custom build the cabinet for the microwave, why do you still need the trim kit? Tasco wanted almost $300 for that trim kit which I thought was ridiculous because it cost more than the microwave itself. It also take up unnecessary space around it too. You easily lost 4" for both the width and height. Did you also build the entire kitchen yourself? I would love to see some pictures for inspiration.

Don't second guess your choice...with your swing up doors in the upper cabinets, the microwave looks better on the lower cabinet which are all the pull-out doors. IMO its a better aesthetic choice and I wish I had the space for one(our kitchen is much smaller U layout). My 8 yr old struggles to reach our microwave but we used the trim kit because we preferred the built-in look rather than the microwave just sitting in the upper cabinet or countertop. We sacrificed some storage space for cosmetic look by sizing the cabinet opening to fit the trim.

The microwave is an old one that is about 8 yrs old. The trim kit I bought it this year when we Reno'd from a store out West in BC. They had the 24"(6 series) and 27"(7 series) kits $140. The 24" kit is designed to be rear vented while the 27" kit uses front venting.

For the kitchen reno we only wrote the check. Someone else had the honor to actually built it and listen to us say change this, change that...lol.
We had a few must haves like inset doors, crown moulding, shoe molding and no filler panels in the corners etc so a bunch of the cabinets had to be custom sided.

I'll post up pictures shortly. Let me find good examples.Face With Tears Of Joy
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The kitchen we removed was installed but the builders in 1996. We just tweaked the layout slightly. Its a small kitchen but the house is not exactly a mansion at 1850 sqft without the basement.

Before (Demolition day)
Image
After
Image

Before
Image
After
Image

This section just had a small breakfast table, We decided to add tall wall cabinets and the built-in breakfast counter for four. The Kitchen links to our dining room. Living room is a separate space so not open concept.
Image

This was the corner we previously hid the microwave, now its the Keurig's permanent home.
Current refrigerator is 33" but we sized the cabinet for 36" for future upgrade.
Image
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Sep 6, 2019
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bubuski wrote: The kitchen we removed was installed but the builders in 1996. We just tweaked the layout slightly. Its a small kitchen but the house is not exactly a mansion at 1850 sqft without the basement.

Before (Demolition day)
Image
After
Image

Before
Image
After
Image

This section just had a small breakfast table, We decided to add tall wall cabinets and the built-in breakfast counter for four. The Kitchen links to our dining room. Living room is a separate space so not open concept.
Image

This was the corner we previously hid the microwave, now its the Keurig's permanent home.
Current refrigerator is 33" but we sized the cabinet for 36" for future upgrade.
Image
This is beautiful. Ball-park, would you be able to share how much this cost excluding the appliances?
Member
Dec 31, 2007
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that's s really nice kitchen reno. i like the flooring in the kitchen. looks like you also reno'ed the living room area with new flooring. very nice.
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May 30, 2005
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WikkiWikki wrote: The International Residential Code, the building code on which most local building codes are based, requires a clearance of 30 inches between the top of a range and any combustible surface, but it specifies that over-the-range microwaves, which are designed to tolerate less clearance, should be mounted according to their manufacturer's instructions.

The National Kitchen and Bath Association recommends that the bottom of the microwave should be no higher than 54 inches above the floor, which would allow for 18 inches of clearance between the microwave and the typical cooktop height of 36 inches.

Some manufacturers allow smaller clearances. General Electric, for example, requires that its microwaves be mounted with a minimum of 66 inches between the floor and the top of the microwave, which results in a clearance of between 13 and 16 inches from the microwave to the cooktop. Tight clearances, however, may make it difficult to use large pots on the cooktop.


So in short, it seems the heights can vary, and I assume its on the stove you are using to. We have only used electric stoves, have never been Natural gas fans over the years. So maybe NG need more clearance

And these days many OTR are so slim compared to even 5 years ago, like this one

https://www.costco.ca/whirlpool-1.1-cu. ... 72940.html

This one seems to be half the height of anything we ever owned.

Ours microwaves were always mounted to code, I made sure. Thats why we had to change cupboards because otherwise they would of been to low since they were set for a range hood only.

I also never paid attention to my eyes and the microwave, because I just used it and moved on, was I looking directly into it, maybe, maybe not, in theory, who cares

OTR work for many people, and its fine you and others disagree with that. But the thing is, just because you disagree, doesnt make you right

I disagree with knee level microwaves, I think they're stupid and impractical. But just because I think that, doesn't make me right either
Building code and manufacturer's recommendations are usually just base cases and minimum's. For example, why does it matter if the manufacturer says 13-16 inches clearance is enough? It is not practical at all, at 13" clearance, the inner elements are basically useless, one can barely see what they're cooking at that point.

What we're saying is that as a best practice, you should not be handling any hot (especially liquid) items above your head, and that's where tonershop's calculations came in, and why it was mentioned that you would have to be 7' tall. Alternatively, you'd have to use a step stool, but that is equally dangerous.
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Jon Lai wrote: Building code and manufacturer's recommendations are usually just base cases and minimum's. For example, why does it matter if the manufacturer says 13-16 inches clearance is enough? It is not practical at all, at 13" clearance, the inner elements are basically useless, one can barely see what they're cooking at that point.

What we're saying is that as a best practice, you should not be handling any hot (especially liquid) items above your head, and that's where tonershop's calculations came in, and why it was mentioned that you would have to be 7' tall. Alternatively, you'd have to use a step stool, but that is equally dangerous.
In addition to building code and manufacturer code there is also gas code clearance for combustion which has the clause "4.1.4 Where a conflict exists between the manufacturer’s certified installation instructions and this Code, the most stringent of the two shall prevail."

I recall this thread linked below from last year dived into it.
gas-range-range-hood-clearance-2279969/
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Nov 9, 2011
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Toronto
WikkiWikki wrote: Why the hell would you need to be 7 feet tall? Are you just putting up info to exaggerate because you dont agree with it?

Im 5'9, never had an issue all the 15 years of an OTR microwave. Even our new house before we did a remodel there was one from the house being built, yet again, I basically looked right into the microwave and it was over the stove

And my math says 60" is 5 feet. Not 5.5 feet. So just add 6" to prove your point? So the base of the microwave is 5 feet, and you need to be 7 feet tall to look into it? How big is this microwave? Anything to just make you look right?

OTR have their place and work, and see them in many houses. So are you saying millions of people are wrong that have an OTR microwave?
No, I don't have to exaggerate anything to look right when I am right.

I am not saying millions people are wrong to use OTR microwave. But there are also millions if not billions of people with just an exhaust fan over the range - are they wrong too?

I am simply saying, given a choice between a OTR microwave and just an exhaust fan over the range. I would pick the ladder every time.
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May 23, 2009
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MoNaMi1 wrote:
This is beautiful. Ball-park, would you be able to share how much this cost excluding the appliances?
It hard to pinpoint the cost as I did my whole main floor but I think ball-park for kitchen alone is somewhere around $35-40K.

Gut then re-install floor, electrical(for appliances, lighting), cabinets, counterop and backsplash.
gladiator1942 wrote: that's s really nice kitchen reno. i like the flooring in the kitchen. looks like you also reno'ed the living room area with new flooring. very nice.
Thanks, We did the whole 1st floor. Choosing that tiled floor was a tough choice. Why tile when it's much easier and in vogue to install hardwood in the kitchen. We had to think a bit long term on what we can live with.

The room with the fireplace was previously our family room, it's now our new dining room. We'll place a wing-back chair and side table to the left of the fireplace and a dining table under the chandelier.
Living room and dining room previously shared a space in our old layout, now it just be a bigger formal living room. We also added a mudroom and re-tilled the powderoom.
Image
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Mar 24, 2015
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tonershop wrote: No, I don't have to exaggerate anything to look right when I am right.

I am not saying millions people are wrong to use OTR microwave. But there are also millions if not billions of people with just an exhaust fan over the range - are they wrong too?

I am simply saying, given a choice between a OTR microwave and just an exhaust fan over the range. I would pick the ladder every time.
We have an OTR microwave which we are waiting for it to die soon so that we can replace with an exhaust fan and put a microwave somewhere else. I spend a lot of time cooking and it's a PITA when I use big pots and when I have to use the soup ladle for example. Can't go higher. So I have to bring the post on the front burners every time I have to open the lids and switch other pots to the back. Also the OTR micro doesn't cover all 4 burners, which means I have to use the back two most of the time. The higher gas flame being the front one doesn't help.
Almost burned myself a few times with hot food as I'm only 5'2 and the microwave is just too high. Not a problem for my 6' tall husband, but a huge drawback for me.
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Jon Lai wrote: Building code and manufacturer's recommendations are usually just base cases and minimum's. For example, why does it matter if the manufacturer says 13-16 inches clearance is enough? It is not practical at all, at 13" clearance, the inner elements are basically useless, one can barely see what they're cooking at that point.

What we're saying is that as a best practice, you should not be handling any hot (especially liquid) items above your head, and that's where tonershop's calculations came in, and why it was mentioned that you would have to be 7' tall. Alternatively, you'd have to use a step stool, but that is equally dangerous.
How are people throwing in 7 feet tall to use an OTR microwave? How short are people, 4.5 feet? Ive seen tons of OTR microwaves, in new builds, where the hell does 7 feet tall come in?

Are you saying that every build and setup I have seen of an OTR setup, in my life, that they were all some how not correct? That people have to be 7 feet tall to use them. Do you honestly think people would buy and install these if only 7' tall people could use them. Talk about a niche market then
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Nov 9, 2011
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Toronto
WikkiWikki wrote: How are people throwing in 7 feet tall to use an OTR microwave? How short are people, 4.5 feet? Ive seen tons of OTR microwaves, in new builds, where the hell does 7 feet tall come in?

Are you saying that every build and setup I have seen of an OTR setup, in my life, that they were all some how not correct? That people have to be 7 feet tall to use them. Do you honestly think people would buy and install these if only 7' tall people could use them. Talk about a niche market then
Sigh, you don't get it do you.. Those you seen only have 16 to 18 inch clearance from the cooktop to the OTR microwave. You need and want more clearance for that for a gas stove.
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tonershop wrote: No, I don't have to exaggerate anything to look right when I am right.

I am not saying millions people are wrong to use OTR microwave. But there are also millions if not billions of people with just an exhaust fan over the range - are they wrong too?

I am simply saying, given a choice between a OTR microwave and just an exhaust fan over the range. I would pick the ladder every time.
Did I say anywhere that exhaust fans are wrong? Please quote it. But you defintly said that you are right above. How are you right, that you need to be 7 feet tall to use them? No house I have ever seen that has an OTR micorwave that is installed the correct distance, has anyone in the house that is 7 feet tall

But anyway, here, Ill give you your RFD Toronto hard on you so desperately crave. You are right, I am wrong.
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WikkiWikki wrote: How are people throwing in 7 feet tall to use an OTR microwave? How short are people, 4.5 feet? Ive seen tons of OTR microwaves, in new builds, where the hell does 7 feet tall come in?

Are you saying that every build and setup I have seen of an OTR setup, in my life, that they were all some how not correct? That people have to be 7 feet tall to use them. Do you honestly think people would buy and install these if only 7' tall people could use them. Talk about a niche market then
What tonershop said was that, based on the standard that you should not be carry hot liquids over your head, you would need to be approximately 7 feet tall to satisfy that.

I think it's safe to say, and that most people will agree, that just because cookie-cutter builders install something in some way, doesn't mean it's a good idea, or that it's "correct". What a lot of us are saying is that OTR microwaves are a compromise, and by no means a good design. Many people choose to compromise because of the lack of space, including builders.
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