Investing

DLR.TO Commission Fee on Questrade

  • Last Updated:
  • Jul 14th, 2020 6:31 pm
[OP]
Newbie
Jul 8, 2020
4 posts

DLR.TO Commission Fee on Questrade

Hello,

Would someone kindly explain why this limit order on DLR.TO is being charged a commission? Attached is an image with the order.

I can see that the 3.15$ is the ECN fee for Canadian stocks >1$ @ 0.0035$ (900 x 0.0035 = 3.15$)

But I do not understand why my order, which is neither removing liquidity (limit order below ask price), nor a non-marketable order (it is a multiple of 100) is being charged the fee regardless.

The fee itself does not bother me for the moment, but in the future, if I choose to use Norbert's gambit for larger orders (in the 10 000's of shares), then Questrade will be charging be MORE than flat-rate big banks for the trade, even if I follow all the directives to avoid ECN fees, which doesn't sound very appealing to me.

Could someone kindly explain why I am being charged this ECN fee, on this particular order?

Thank you,
Images
  • t1.png
Last edited by JBA666 on Jul 9th, 2020 4:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
9 replies
Member
Nov 28, 2019
395 posts
182 upvotes
JBA666 wrote: Hello,

Would someone kindly explain why this limit order on DLR.U is being charged a commission? Attached is an image with the order.

I can see that the 3.15$ is the ECN fee for Canadian stocks >1$ @ 0.0035$ (900 x 0.0035 = 3.15$)

But I do not understand why my order, which is neither removing liquidity (limit order below ask price), nor a non-marketable order (it is a multiple of 100) is being charged the fee regardless.

The fee itself does not bother me for the moment, but in the future, if I choose to use Norbert's gambit for larger orders (in the 10 000's of shares), then Questrade will be charging be MORE than flat-rate big banks for the trade, even if I follow all the directives to avoid ECN fees, which doesn't sound very appealing to me.

Could someone kindly explain why I am being charged this ECN fee, on this particular order?

Thank you,
I just was talking to support about this very issue on ETF and they told me to do a limit order. From what I understood is that the fee is just there but it may not apply. I put some orders in well below ask and was still there. If my orders do hit then I will see if it was actually taken off or not.
Jr. Member
Jun 17, 2018
117 posts
92 upvotes
Hamilton, Bermuda
In the screenshot you provided, the bid and ask haven't been refreshed.
I'm referring to the "> 15 min" just by the arrow. What this means is you weren't using live quotes when you sent in your order. You need to click that arrow before you trade.
This also makes sense considering that if you put a bid at 13.70 and the ask is 13.73, you shouldn't expect your order to execute right away... My best guess is that the ask price was 13.70 or lower, so the order executed right away and you were removing liquidity (hence the ECN fees). Does that make sense?
[OP]
Newbie
Jul 8, 2020
4 posts
That does make sense, and I apologize for not updating the screenshot with current quotes, but DLR.TO that day did not trade below 13.72 with the exception of opening hours.

In short, the price never dipped below my limit order (not even close to it, actually). It therefore does not explain the fee on my trade.

The theory by jimbob may make sense. I will have to check if the fee is actually applied when the trade executes. I will return once I've confirmed this.
[OP]
Newbie
Jul 8, 2020
4 posts
So I took a look at previous purchases of DLR.TO in my account, and would like further clarification on ECN fees when where it pertains to mixed lots.

I was under the impression that only the odd lot would be charged the ECN fee in a mixed lot order, while board lots would not be charged an ECN fee.

Attached below is an example of a purchase I made of DLR.TO.

You can see that the ECN fee was charged for every lot, including the board lots. I added columns for execution time so it would be clear that these orders were not removing liquidity (in fact, they executed the following day).

Are there additional conditions that would trigger ECN fees? I have found certain forums online claiming that special instructions can trigger ECN fees, would a GTC order fit under special instructions?
Further reference can be found here: questions-questrade-fees-1921621/#p25115179
The post dates from 2016, though, and the original help article is no longer valid. It also claims that trades made on open/close trigger ECN fees. This could explain the fee I was given, but again, the source for this information is no longer valid. If this is still the case, can someone link to an official source that states this?

Could anyone share their experiences with mixed lots and their respective ECN fees?
Images
  • t2.png
Member
May 2, 2019
417 posts
472 upvotes
Vancouver
Is the time zone in the screenshot ET? If so, the trades seem to have happened at the market open. Per Questrade info (mentioned in your link), you can be considered to be removing liquidity for any trades that are executed at the market open/close.

A current link to that Questrade article: https://questrade-support.secure.force. ... BYYWNZQUFT
Jr. Member
Jun 17, 2018
117 posts
92 upvotes
Hamilton, Bermuda
yvrbanker wrote: Is the time zone in the screenshot ET? If so, the trades seem to have happened at the market open. Per Questrade info (mentioned in your link), you can be considered to be removing liquidity for any trades that are executed at the market open/close.

A current link to that Questrade article: https://questrade-support.secure.force. ... BYYWNZQUFT
Looking at the screenshot, it seems like the order was executed right on market open (9:30 am).
[OP]
Newbie
Jul 8, 2020
4 posts
yvrbanker wrote: Is the time zone in the screenshot ET? If so, the trades seem to have happened at the market open. Per Questrade info (mentioned in your link), you can be considered to be removing liquidity for any trades that are executed at the market open/close.

A current link to that Questrade article: https://questrade-support.secure.force. ... BYYWNZQUFT
Thank you for the reference, that clears up a great deal of confusion.
Sr. Member
Jul 13, 2007
994 posts
521 upvotes
Toronto
If you really want to save money (and take a bit more risk), consider buying a more expensive (and liquid!) share instead of DLR.

You'll have to pay a Buy commission, but since you'll be transacting in 1/5th - 1/10th as many shares, it'll be made up when you sell by paying fewer 1c/share commissions. Keeping you at the $4.95 trade price instead of $9.95. You'll also pay less in spreads. Paying a 1-2 cent spread on a $93 RY share will mean paying 1/7th as much on spreads as $13 DLR. Each cent in spread on DLR.to costs you 0.1%.

You also get to sit in-the-market during the journalling time, instead of being in cash via DLR. DLR also charges an MER.

It is more risk because your $s are in 1 stock during the time period, but you get: more liquidity (DLR volume is $10m/day, RY is $550m/day), being in the market for those 3-4 business days (on average, this is good, but could bite you), pay less spread because dealing with fewer shares, pay less ECN fees because less shares transacted, no MERs paid to Horizon for running DLR.

Also need to be careful about dividends and superficial losses. And cap gains taxes in an unregistered account (but that's a good problem to have). If the market goes up 6%/year, on average you get another 0.1% with this.

It's also not a bad strategy to build positions in companies if you want. E.g. buy 1000 shares of RY, but sell 950 to keep 50 for the future. Once you have a position in interlisted stocks, you can do 'instant' gambits by selling some and replenishing right away, but watch for cap gains outside of reg'd accounts.
Member
Nov 28, 2019
395 posts
182 upvotes
JBA666 wrote: That does make sense, and I apologize for not updating the screenshot with current quotes, but DLR.TO that day did not trade below 13.72 with the exception of opening hours.

In short, the price never dipped below my limit order (not even close to it, actually). It therefore does not explain the fee on my trade.

The theory by jimbob may make sense. I will have to check if the fee is actually applied when the trade executes. I will return once I've confirmed this.
I was on chat today for a different question and asked about the ENC fee again and they told me this

ECN fees are exchange fees that are applied to mainly CAD securities. You are able to avoid this if your order meets two conditions :
1) Your order is non marketable, meaning it is a limit order that does not execute immediately.
2) Your order is traded at a multiple of 100 shares.

https://www.questrade.com/pricing/self- ... ransaction

They also basically said that their screen will always show the highest commission you may have to pay as they can not guaranteed you won't be charged (for instance you put in a limit order but the market swings so fast your order basically gets executed right away then you will be charged the fee). If you do a limit order and it gets accepted but not executed right away and your buying in multiples of 100 shares my understanding is you won't get charged that fee but till your order is executed you won't be able to say for 100%.

So pretty much don't believe the screen 100%, it is just the worst case outcome of what your going to have to pay in fees.

Top