Do we need to add attic insulation ?

rdx wrote: ↑ Our house in GTA is 12 years old, and I just checked the attic insulation done by builder, which was R-40 and currently 12+ inches thick.

I understand the current code would be using R50-60, and there are still government rebate for that. I have been hearing radio commercials saying it usually costs only several hundreds $ after the rebate.

My first question is that if/does our house needs it at all with the existing 12 inches of R-40 ?

I assume if we call those companies, most likely they/auditor from them will say we will need to add insultation. Otherwise, there will no business for them Thus, would like to everyone's opinions.

Thanks in advance for your advice.

Yes they will get a home energy auditor to tell you to upgrade insulation. If you need to have other stuff done at the same time (furnace, windows, etc) it might be worth it. Thats what I did a few years back - changed the Hot water heater, furnace, AC, windows and added insulation.

vernonco wrote: ↑ Yes they will get a home energy auditor to tell you to upgrade insulation. If you need to have other stuff done at the same time (furnace, windows, etc) it might be worth it. Thats what I did a few years back - changed the Hot water heater, furnace, AC, windows and added insulation.

We are already using tankless heater, and probably don't need a new furnace or windows, but needs a new AC for sure.

Attic insulation is probably the lowest hanging fruit in terms of ROI - while making your home more comfortable and having your heating / air conditioning work less.

in the past 12 years, the blown in insulation has probably settled quite a bit. It may have been r-40 at one point but i doubt it is today.

vernonco wrote: ↑ Yes they will get a home energy auditor to tell you to upgrade insulation. If you need to have other stuff done at the same time (furnace, windows, etc) it might be worth it. Thats what I did a few years back - changed the Hot water heater, furnace, AC, windows and added insulation.

after it was done, did you notice the energy/money savings?
was it worth it?

gc99 wrote: ↑ after it was done, did you notice the energy/money savings?
was it worth it?

Good question. One of my friends recently did it but notice no improvement at all.....

gc99 wrote: ↑ after it was done, did you notice the energy/money savings?
was it worth it?

I needed new heater, water heater, AC, windows anyway. The water heater guy suggested the energy audit. That's what prompted the entire thing. And the energy auditor suggested the insulation. I do not pay close attention to my bills but there was a improvement. The house is more comfortable. Obviously having a working furnace and windows that do not ice up helps :-).

Having upgraded the attic insulation in a 50 year old home without insulation in the walls, it DOES make a difference. Not sure how much you will notice on a 12 year old home that is much better sealed and insulated. Either way, the whole job could be less than a few thousand to do the entire thing, so getting a rebate after doing an energy audit, you can't lose, but will it be noticeable to you, hard to say.

Are you noticing issues with heating/cooling that's prompting these questions?

rdx wrote: ↑ Our house in GTA is 12 years old, and I just checked the attic insulation done by builder, which was R-40 and currently 12+ inches thick.

I understand the current code would be using R50-60, and there are still government rebate for that. I have been hearing radio commercials saying it usually costs only several hundreds $ after the rebate.

My first question is that if/does our house needs it at all with the existing 12 inches of R-40 ?

I assume if we call those companies, most likely they/auditor from them will say we will need to add insultation. Otherwise, there will no business for them Thus, would like to everyone's opinions.

Thanks in advance for your advice.

If you really do have R40, the attic doesn't qualify and if that's the only upgrade planned, you'd be out of pocket the preliminary audit expense of roughly $500 plus HST.

update-5-000-canada-greener-homes-retro ... d-2431921/

Greener Homes Grant: if your current attic insulation is greater than RSI 4.40 (R-25) and up to RSI 6.16 (R-35) qualifies for a rebate of $250.
Enbridge Rebate (two energy upgrades required): Attic insulation: Up to $750: Increase attic insulation from R-35 or less to at least R-60.
Those grants can't be combined on the same upgrade.

Thanks for the information. Actually, we already had one energy audit done 10 years ago and got the rebate for finishing the basement insulation and adding the attic insulation as well as the rebate for the tankless water heater installation. Does it mean we cannot apply the rebate again ?

Regarding the attic insulation, I see a sticker on the attic cover from the HVAC contractor of the builder saying it is R-39. Actually, I recalled the energy auditor came last time told me the builder didn't put thick enough in attic, so we filed the Tarion warranty request to builder for increasing it to over 12+" as it was still within the warranty. And I just measured it and it is still about 12".

Like I mentioned, the house doesn't actually feel too cold in the winter or too hot in the summer. So, if we will have to pay for upgrading to R-50 and audit fee without rebate, we will not do it. The only reason I am thinking about doing it is because of the rebate and thought we should consider upgrading the insulation with government subsidy

fergy wrote: ↑ If you really do have R40, the attic doesn't qualify and if that's the only upgrade planned, you'd be out of pocket the preliminary audit expense of roughly $500 plus HST.

update-5-000-canada-greener-homes-retro ... d-2431921/

Greener Homes Grant: if your current attic insulation is greater than RSI 4.40 (R-25) and up to RSI 6.16 (R-35) qualifies for a rebate of $250.
Enbridge Rebate (two energy upgrades required): Attic insulation: Up to $750: Increase attic insulation from R-35 or less to at least R-60.
Those grants can't be combined on the same upgrade.

rdx wrote: ↑ That for the information. Actually, we already had one energy audit done 10 years ago and got the rebate for finishing the basement insulation and adding the attic insulation as well as the rebate for the tankless water heater installation. Does it mean we cannot apply the rebate again ?

Regarding the attic insulation, I see a sticker on the attic cover from the HVAC contractor of the builder saying it is R-39. Actually, I recalled the energy auditor came last time told me the builder didn't put thick enough in attic, so we filed the Tarion warranty request to builder for increasing it to over 12+" as it was still within the warranty. And I just measured it and it is still about 12".

Like I mentioned, the house doesn't actually feel too cold in the winter or too hot in the summer. So, if we will have to pay for upgrading to R-50 and audit fee without rebate, we will not do it. The only reason I am thinking about doing it is because of the rebate and thought we should consider upgrading the insulation with government subsidy

You can still apply. For the Greener Homes Grant you must complete a minimum of one "recommended" energy upgrade that the auditor lists. Then you can also get back up to $600 for the complete energy audit. If you don't get something recommended that you want to do then you won't be reimbursed.

fergy wrote: ↑ You can still apply. For the Greener Homes Grant you must complete a minimum of one "recommended" energy upgrade that the auditor lists. Then you can also get back up to $600 for the complete energy audit. If you don't get something recommended that you want to do then you won't be reimbursed.

I see. What if our house has nothing qualified for the rebate ? Like you said, if our attic insulation is R-40, it is not qualified. And attic insulation is the only thing we are thinking/need to do ...... Thanks again

rdx wrote: ↑ I see. What if our house has nothing qualified for the rebate ? Like you said, if our attic insulation is R-40, it is not qualified. And attic insulation is the only thing we are thinking/need to do ...... Thanks again

You're pretty much in the same situation I am. My attic is supposed to have R40. I need to go back up and measure it in a few places. I'm hoping they under insulated. The other possibility is air sealing gets recommended if the attic doesn't get recommended. Some of that entails caulking inside around window frames, baseboards and anywhere the blower test finds leakage. I haven't decided myself. I might end up upgrading the attic insulation myself. You can get a free blower rental at Home Depot if you buy enough blown insulation.

All my windows might need to be re-sealed if that qualifies as an item.

I would not do the insulation blowing myself, it is a messy job and like I said I don't really feel like I need it at this moment

I wonder if I will need to replace my furnace though as it is over a dozen years old. I need to replace the old AC for sure as it is leaking freon again ....

fergy wrote: ↑ You're pretty much in the same situation I am. My attic is supposed to have R40. I need to go back up and measure it in a few places. I'm hoping they under insulated. The other possibility is air sealing gets recommended if the attic doesn't get recommended. Some of that entails caulking inside around window frames, baseboards and anywhere the blower test finds leakage. I haven't decided myself. I might end up upgrading the attic insulation myself. You can get a free blower rental at Home Depot if you buy enough blown insulation.

If you end up doing the attic and AC then it may be worth while but you need to get an audit done or at least talk to one of them to see if ts worth it to you once you factor the full cost.

I know @newlyborn one of the recommended HVAC companies here on RFD has somebody who does the audits if I'm not mistaken since many of his clients ask about it, so you could reach out to him for the contact to see if its worth to do it or not, Do not pay anything for initial consultation. It should be no obligation

rdx wrote: ↑ We are already using tankless heater, and probably don't need a new furnace or windows, but needs a new AC for sure.

rdx wrote: ↑ All my windows might need to be re-sealed if that qualifies as an item.

I would not do the insulation blowing myself, it is a messy job and like I said I don't really feel like I need it at this moment

I wonder if I will need to replace my furnace though as it is over a dozen years old. I need to replace the old AC for sure as it is leaking freon again ....

A.C. leaks can be something very simple like a union or the fill valve itself, or expensive like the indoor or outdoor coil. Complicating that is they did a switchover from R22 to R410a several years back. R22 was banned ftom import and production in Canada. R410a is apparently much less expensive to charge up. Your could have either one but it would be listed on the model number plate on the outdoor unit. Hopefully they didn't just top up the charge the last time. HVAC companies are legally required to fix leaks on equipment they are working on and not simply refill a slow leak. I'm not aware of any current rebates for AC's.

Unless you're unhappy with the performance of the 12 year old furnace, I'd keep it for longer, it should have a few years left in it. Greener Homes doesnt have a rebate unless you live up north and Enbridge only has a $250 rebate and requires 2 additional energy upgrades.

Leaky windows are covered. I don't know where you get new seals, if thats where the leaks are. There is a big windows and door thread though.
merged-windows-doors-633922/

Thanks again for information.

For the AC, I have talked to my HVAC since last last summer. It is totally due for replacement. Have done freon refill 2 years ago, and it is leaking again. Since it is an old model, there is no more freon for it/very expensive. Doesn't make sense to refill. We have discussed to wait till this season starts and shops for a new one, instead of installing a new in last fall. Hope there will be deals available.

The furnace is working fine. Yes, sure , I can keep using it especially there is no rebate to upgrade/replace.

Windows are not leaking. But I had a contractor who was doing some exterior work for me last fall, he noticed and told me that the caulking around those a dozen years old windows from builders seem old , and some might have some cracks. And he suggests me to hire someone to reseal them, not replacing the windows.

Anyway, seems like I shouldn't even bother hiring an energy auditor as there is nothing will qualify for a rebate.

Like I said, we don't actually feel like we need to add insulation i.e. feeling extremely cold inside in winter and extremely hot in summer, was just wondering if we can/should do some upgrade with government subsidy

fergy wrote: ↑ A.C. leaks can be something very simple like a union or the fill valve itself, or expensive like the indoor or outdoor coil. Complicating that is they did a switchover from R22 to R410a several years back. R22 was banned ftom import and production in Canada. R410a is apparently much less expensive to charge up. Your could have either one but it would be listed on the model number plate on the outdoor unit. Hopefully they didn't just top up the charge the last time. HVAC companies are legally required to fix leaks on equipment they are working on and not simply refill a slow leak. I'm not aware of any current rebates for AC's.

Unless you're unhappy with the performance of the 12 year old furnace, I'd keep it for longer, it should have a few years left in it. Greener Homes doesnt have a rebate unless you live up north and Enbridge only has a $250 rebate and requires 2 additional energy upgrades.

Leaky windows are covered. I don't know where you get new seals, if thats where the leaks are. There is a big windows and door thread though.
merged-windows-doors-633922/

discoblues wrote: ↑ Attic insulation is probably the lowest hanging fruit in terms of ROI - while making your home more comfortable and having your heating / air conditioning work less.

in the past 12 years, the blown in insulation has probably settled quite a bit. It may have been r-40 at one point but i doubt it is today.

I'm imagining now how fun of a job it would be to haul all that old snow insulation out of my attic. There is a heck ton.

rdx wrote: ↑ Our house in GTA is 12 years old, and I just checked the attic insulation done by builder, which was R-40 and currently 12+ inches thick.

I understand the current code would be using R50-60, and there are still government rebate for that. I have been hearing radio commercials saying it usually costs only several hundreds $ after the rebate.

My first question is that if/does our house needs it at all with the existing 12 inches of R-40 ?

I assume if we call those companies, most likely they/auditor from them will say we will need to add insultation. Otherwise, there will no business for them Thus, would like to everyone's opinions.

Thanks in advance for your advice.

Simple answer, yes. Top it up to R60. Over time, insulation shrank.

drz400 wrote: ↑ I'm imagining now how fun of a job it would be to haul all that old snow insulation out of my attic. There is a heck ton.

No need to remove the old insulation unless it's wet and mouldy. Attic baffles are extended and new insulation blown over top.